Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[princessbelle]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the fact that when you are thinking about dating someone, you don't know them all that well. At least on an intimate level.

For instance...i could say i would have dated Bully no matter what, 'cause we are a perfect match. Did i know that at the beginning? Nope. I had no clue. As a matter of fact we were/are complete opposites.

So, it's like well if Bully had dated one of my closest friends i would have never even got to the point of really being close enough to her to find out she was perfect for me. Maybe a sad fact, but in my view it would have had to be that way. Also as someone else pointed out, if you are tight with a femme friend, you would most likely know all the diss about the ex and why they broke up anyway and doubtful they would be attractive to begin with.

I remember in high school my bbf was dating a dude named David. I had a crush and honestly only because his parents owned a Duncan Donuts and it was cool. His family was very wealthy and he always had the coolest tennis shoes. They were always bright orange. Oh how i digress. Anyway, she called me one day and said...you like David i don't. You can have him. He went along with that LOL. Only lasted a couple of weeks. It felt awkward. Even though Terry had said it was ok, it didn't feel ok. So i waved goodbye to the tennis shoes with money.

Of course all situations are different and unique.

It really is personal perception and personal opinions of specific situations for sure.

Again, really interesting thread and i've enjoyed reading everyone's pov.

[Martina]

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

[Angeltoes]

Originally Posted by Martina

Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Are you saying it's weird to not date other femmes and to prefer butches? Not saying I don't find femmes to be *beautiful* but it saddens me to be boxed into the weird category once again because I prefer dating the more masculine end of the spectrum. Cues Radiohead *I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo*....

[Medusa]

Gender is much less important to me when this boundary issue exists than the fact that I want to honor my friendships and maintain loyalty to my heartfriends.

I would feel exactly the same way if say Just_G, whom I consider to be one of my close Butch friends, suddenly started dating Butches, got into a long term relationship, was all in love and shit, and they then split up. I wouldn't date G's ex partner, Butch or Femme or Transman, for the exact same reason I don't date my girlfriend's exes.

The bonds I have with my Femme girlfriends are special though, no doubt, and whether it's het-normative or not, those relationships are a type of bond that is specific, intentional, and some of the most affirming space I have in my life.

[princessbelle]

I don't see heteronormalitive being played out at all. If i were into femmes and i had had a close femme friend i wouldn't date her either. No difference whatsoever.

And besides, all butches are not male identified for sure.

Has nothing to do with ID that i see.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

Are you saying it's weird to not date other femmes and to prefer butches?

No. I wasn't saying that.

[princessbelle]

I am trying to understand Martina.

Aren't we talking about dating a friend's ex here?

I don't think anyone is saying they are out to get someone's partner if they aren't a friend.

Exes is the key work i believe.

Again, i don't see anything heteronormalitive about it.

This is the femme zone. So it's femme's talking to other femmes. Never crossed my mind this would be seen as heteronormalitive due to any loyalty to other femme's. I must be missing something.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I am trying to understand Martina.

Aren't we talking about dating a friend's ex here?...

Actually, there are 2 discussions going on. The original post stated the two women were NOT friends, they were acquaintances. The thread did go off on another discussion of dating friends' exes, and ex's friends, and other combinations.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Actually, there are 2 discussions going on. The original post stated the two women were NOT friends, they were acquaintances. The thread did go off on another discussion of dating friends' exes, and ex's friends, and other combinations.

Yes it did.

Edited to add: All of our threads do. Well, most of them. Good convos happen that way sometimes.

[Martina]

I get the friend thing. I don't get the femme code thing. That strikes me as sexist and heteronormative.

Sexist in the sense that if we didn't claim this great loyalty bond, we'd be out there conniving to get each other's partners.

Heteronormative in grouping like gender people "friends" and the other gender as "potential dates."

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Oh, *I* date all over the queer gender spectrum.




I'm far from hetero so I'm going to disagree with your perception.

It's a buzzkill (for the relationship) if a trusted member of my chosen inner circle dates or makes a move on someone I was in love with or owned.

It's boundary crossing for "me" I don't expect for anyone else but the people I'm allowing in my life to respect these boundaries. It's going to be a well known fact I have these expectations because like with any other relationship my chosen circle will know because in developing the friendship it will be talked about. Friendships are relationships.

I feel it's an individual choice on how one values relationships over nookie.

[aishah]

Originally Posted by Martina

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

YES THIS. for me, talking to a friend (or an ex), regardless of how they identify, when there's a potential situation where they might be dating my ex or i might be dating theirs - that's being a nice human being. i'd do that with anyone. i'm not really sure i understand the femme code of loyalty stuff. but i date femmes, too.

i am not sure how being open to dating a friend's ex is tantamount to throwing away a friendship - it seems like that's the basic assumption of many posts on this thread. i have many friendships where that's absolutely not the case (and many of those friendships are with femmes). obviously if there was someone i cared about - like, say, snow or midnight or someone else here, or a friend i have offline, or even an acquaintance - i would ask them first. if they considered it crossing a boundary or felt really strongly about it i most likely wouldn't date their ex - it's not worth it to me. especially if they were a "i'd call you at 4am in a crisis" friend (like the friend who set me up with her ex, who definitely is a close friend). but for me it is not an automatic assumption.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by June

I think the difference here is that many of us have been able to develop deep, personal and important relationships with other Femmes and some haven't.

How is this making a difference in terms of this discussion?

I have a close close friend who is femme. I do not think of that friendship as in a different category than other extremely close friendships. I do not think that having this wonderful friendship gives me a significantly different perspective on the world. It's nice to be understood for some parts of myself that I might have to explain to others. On the other hand, she and I are pretty different. She is a Top and does not truly get the subby me. We are very different in terms of who we date and how we interact with our significant people. I would have more common experiences to trade with a straight male sub. But that's not the point of our friendship. While we talk sex and love, we also talk politics and work and how fucked up the commute was and our mothers' neuroses and why cats always jump on your bladder when you have to pee.

[Words]

I realized you weren't talking about me June, and I realize that I might have a different perspective on things because I'm kind of isolated as a femme. But even though I have no doubt whatsoever that the kind of behaviour you've referred to in your last post does exist, I still think it would be wise to take into account the fact that there are other factors that should sometimes be considered when judging (for want of a better word) those who don't subscribe to the 'never, never in a million years' way of thinking.

Listen, I am incredibly jealous. I am. So much so that one of the things I've said to Blue is that, were I to die, then even though I'd want Hym to be happy with someone else, I wouldn't want Hym to discuss things that were unique to U/us. The intimate stuff. The stuff that was 'O/ours' and O/ours alone...So say Blue and I were to split up (let's make it an amicable divorce since I can't really imagine O/our breaking up any other way). Would it bother me if some time down the line I found out that a best femme friend of mine and Hy were together (not fucking, but together)? Course it would. But would I feel betrayed? By the friend? By Blue? No. I'd feel sad that it hadn't worked out for U/us. I'd feel jealous that someone else was now taking my place. But, because I love Blue and want Hym to be happy, and because I'm assuming that I'd also love and trust my best femme friend and that she would be capable of making Hym happy, then I would console myself by believing that within T/their new relationship, T/they'd B/both show respect for the memory, if you will, of the relationship that was once Blue and mine's. (Though, I do have to admit, I'd probably move to another county so as to not have to witness their newfound happiness so clearly, this hypothetical situation isn't something I'd actually enjoy. Far from it.)

Naive? Perhaps. Not entirely true? Hard to say since I doubt it will ever happen. But at this point in time, that's the way that I feel.

Words

P.S. Sorry June, posted after you did.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by June

Pajama is a flirt? NO!

I was posting about the same time Medusa was, and while we don't share a brain, this is something we've talked about a lot after watching people in this community be really shitty and insensitive to each other over pussy and dick.

(All my filters come off on Sunday now because I'm not 49 anymore)

words talked about nothing would stand in the way of her getting to Blue, I get that. And she didn't have to walk over the back of one of her best friends to get there, that's lucky not to have to make that choice.

There are those of us who when faced with a choice like that would choose our close friend. Others wouldn't be able to get their new groove on fast enough and would toss the friendship aside in a heartbeat.

I know people like that. They're not always Femme, either, but they're not my family of choice.

I think this highlights something very important.

I think that we all make relationships, friendship or love ones (or both!), that are based on shared values and expectations. That isn't a complete absolute but I will say that you won't find me having people up in my close orbit who are messy (at least not any longer) in the way of thinking that people are "things" to be taken out and used or tossed aside when the need arises.
Some folks are absolutely ok with that level of messy-type behavior. I'm not one of them.

I'm also not going to form a close bond with someone who I perceive as putting so much importance on sex (or attention-seeking or anything else) that their entire way of being revolves around getting it, at any cost.

Why? Because of that whole "at any cost" thing.

[Random]

I have another question to pose?

What if a mate has passed away?

Would you mind if your best girlfriend hooked up with your partner if you passed away?

If you wouldn't mind then, then what is the difference between a live ex and a passed away partner?

My thoughts are:

I want my friends happy

I want my ex's (after the period of wishing them to be devoured by flesh eating demons has passed) happy...

Every one of my relationships ended because my then partner and I were not a good match... Why would I want to prevent a possible good match where both my ex and my friend found a life time love? or even just a really good time...

Would it bother me, hurt me? ya, but that's my issue... I have possession issues and if someone was once mine, then they are always mine... But I know that's not real, not healthy, and not true... It's my issue and I deal with it...

The possibility of real ever lasting real mother fucking love is slim... I'm lucky to have tasted real love twice.. I wouldn't want to be the one that stood in two other people's way... even if it hurt like hell...

[The_Lady_Snow]

If I die, I've found a place for boy of weather to go to. I'm 100% positive everyone will be happy.

Other than that have at it more power to ya!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Random

I have another question to pose?

What if a mate has passed away?

Would you mind if your best girlfriend hooked up with your partner if you passed away?

no, I'm dead, I'm going to mind, like, fuck all. I'm dead.

If you wouldn't mind then, then what is the difference between a live ex and a passed away partner?

because I'm dead. I wouldn't have to watch it.

that's really the only issue - watching something that hurts. And that's why you remove yourself from things you do not want to see or agree to space so neither have to watch. Dead is dead. there ain't no watchin or being botherd about anything anymore!

I told "T" that if she died I would be very greatly upset. her response was "I wouldn't care how upset you'd be! I'd be dead!" then laughed. She had a point. So I told her to shut it.

If someone went off with my wife, who I'm in the process of divorcing, I would highly doubt I would Give A Flying Fuck. I'm completely over emotional romantic attachment to her.

However, if my mate and flatmate went off and screwed "T" the last person I had any real feelings for even though most of them have been based on friendship and she has a gf whom I really like and no commitments were ever made... I'd be ravingly upset. Why? because I still have vague fuzzed feelings for her that I'm never bloody sure of what exactly they are.

I actually *told* my flatmate that because "T" has told me on several occations how hot she thinks my flatmate is and how easy it would be to fall in love with her, how anyone would. My flatmate kindly responded "ffs barb, she might well have thought about it in passing but that she tells you every so often means she's taking the piss and trying to get your knickers in a twist. You get jealous of her getting massaged elsewhere. when she was on the table, she talked about Janessa (her acupressurist) till you went toooooootally quiet than asked in that smart ass tone of voice of hers 'you getting jealous?' She tells you that to get you pissy and laugh and poke you and you love it."

never the less, I let her know I would be extremely upset.

She told me it wouldn't happen.

Personally I wouldn't be surpised. But I would also expect her to tell me if they did. I wouldn't de-friend either of them, I have no right to make those kinds of demands and punishments. But I let her know I would. shit happens in the moment. I was verrrrry high and proud about how I'd never do that kind of thing until "T". I lose my resolve around her at times: I get jealous, I want her attention, I love it when she makes me laugh, and I adore her to bits. I can see me very much making an error if I was pushed quite hard.

Which has been a real slice of humble pie to gobble down.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I thought about boy of weather kissing June Daddy on the neck in that kinda way I get kissed and it made me a little sad. I'd have to leave the room or turn off the computer if I got in a but but that was my thing head space. I'd be hurt cause well June's my Daddy/Homie/Family, boy of weather eh, what a douche bag for not having better lines.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by June

Shit. I must seem so rigid and fussy to everyone, that it's amazing I have any friends at all.

that cuz you iz like hottttttt and I am willing to put up that that for your hottttness.