"Stud" versus "Butch"

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

Hello,

Curious femme here. Lately, I've noticed on certain lesbian websites butches are referred to as "studs". This seems to be a generational thing with younger butches especially using the term. I find if off-putting because to me the term "stud" implies some type of breeding stock.

Thoughts on this?

you're showing our age here

[Ebon]

Like brother Corkey said, it's a cultural thing. From my own personal experience I've only ever heard African American or Latino butches refer to themselves as studs. I don't think that they see themselves as livestock but rather handsome masculine women. Just like some straight women call men that they find attractive studs.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Like brother Corkey said, it's a cultural thing. From my own personal experience I've only ever heard African American or Latino butches refer to themselves as studs. I don't think that they see themselves as livestock but rather handsome masculine women. Just like some straight women call men that they find attractive studs.

*laughs @ 'livestock'*

Okay, maybe it is a cultural thing. There's nothing wrong with it, I was just wondering where it came from. I just happened to see 'stud' as meaning one thing. I had a picture of a prize stallion in my head. (*giggles*) That doesn't mean that's what the person had in mind.

[Corkey]

It is nothing to be laughed at, unless of course one is not educated about cultures. Perhaps looking about the site will correct this? Just a suggestion.

[Samurai Wanderer]

Thanks for this thread, Girl On Fire I've been struggling with B-F terminologies in general, so it's helpful to see threads about these terms being discussed. While I see the sense of simply googling, it's a passive act. I find reading active discussions on the topic more interesting. Language and semantics are ever evolving, to reflect the people who use them. Aren't we the ones who collectively 'own' these terms, and who are most active in deepening and evolving the language that we use?

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

I just happened to see 'stud' as meaning one thing. I had a picture of a prize stallion in my head. (*giggles*)

... I thought that's as good a meaning of 'stud' as any

[Chancie]

Stud isn't a new term and there are probably a few references online, if you googled a bit.

[Chancie]

Originally Posted by Chancie

Stud isn't a new term and there are probably a few references online, if you googled a bit.

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

[The_Lady_Snow]

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

Originally Posted by Chancie

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

In reference to this particular thread, the question wasn't about cultural differences- the OP was looking for the source of the different use in terms. It wasn't until a few of us answered "it's a cultural thing" that it became a discussion about culture. The problem I have with the point of view that people should "educate themselves" is that it presumes people know which sources are "good" sources. Everyone who writes a book thinks its good and real and true information, so how does someone who doesn't know anything about that subject know if they are reading good, real, and true information? Speaking for myself, I'd rather go to someone I know or a community I am familiar with and ask questions than to read articles on the Internet, or books, and try to figure out what's real and what's bullshit. If someone were researching discrimination in education, do you think all of the available research materials would point them in a clear and defined direction that would be in the same direction of people's experiences and opinions of this community? Some would and some woudn't, so that takes them back to square one. I'm for *helping* people become educated; I don't expect them to do it on their own.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

Thank you for sharing all of this, and I know it's come up in many threads before. I want to be very clear about one thing though - I am not coming from a "shame on you" place, *at all*. I get what you're saying - frankly there were times I felt the same way about educating people about the queer community, it can be exhausting. But what I'm afraid of is that if we *don't* step up and take the opportunity to educate someone who is asking for answers, he or she will get their "education" from people like we saw in that fucked up video. I agree that some people can never be freed from their ignorance, no matter how hard you try, but there are clearly others who really do want to understand, and I just hate to see those opportunities wasted. I'm not saying we should spoon feed all of the information, but we can at least provide some resources and be a resource ourselves.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Chancie

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

Asking the question is the first step to "doing a little research."
I don't think it's a "bad thing," to suggest the Internet as a resource, but I think the reaction to it depends on the person who asked the question in the first place. For someone shy and new, I can certainly see how it might feel as a shut out answer. From a neutral point of view, I just don't find it very helpful, and as the OP said, she was hoping for a discussion, which did eventually take place. From my own point of view, if I'm looking to connect with my community, I am looking for opinions from my community, not from an Internet search that is going to spit back 85,000,000 results that I have to weed through, not knowing if I'm even on the right track. I haven't tried to Google "why do some butches refer to themselves as studs" so maybe the answer is plain as day, but that still doesn't preclude me from wanting to talk to my own community about it. I trust this community for answers on LGBTQ issues more than I would an Internet search.