Misogyny and Sexism in the News

[Soon]

I had a disheartening conversation with a fifteen year old (bright) boy today.

As a class, we were discussing sexual assault/rape/slut-shaming and victim blaming. I brought up a recent story where a young woman in Nova Scotia--Rehtaeh Parsons--killed herself after being raped and bullied and harassed in its aftermath.

So, at the end of the class, student comes up to me and wouldn't stop with the argument...."If she was under age I could maybe understand (?) but

....she shouldn't have been there at the party
...she shouldn't have been drinking
...if she hadn't done any of those things, this wouldn't have happened to her..."


Of course, I try to to tell him the onus shouldn't be on women to have to monitor their behaviour in order to avoid/prevent women, and that her behaviour does not negate the rape. That the onus needs to be on men not raping and assaulting. However, he kept INSISTING, but but but if she hadn't done this and that. He was not able or could not (?) see that the discussion shouldn't be on what the victim did or didn't do, but that these men are committing a crime. I told him about consent and lack thereof with intoxication or being passed out, but he kept reverting to the "but if she hadn't done A then B wouldn't have happened to her."

Anyway, it was very frustrating. I am asking if anyone has an article or resource that is simple enough to maybe make him (and others?) in the class understand that the conversation shouldn't be about what these young women did or didn't do prior to being raped. The conversation needs to be about the rapists and raising men to not rape at all. Ever.

So, if you have something--a turn of phrase, an article, anything--that might help these adolescents understand that rape is not about a woman's behaviour, I'd appreciate it.

Sigh. I am still rankled by the conversation.

Thank you.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Soon

I had a disheartening conversation with a fifteen year old (bright) boy today.

As a class, we were discussing sexual assault/rape/slut-shaming and victim blaming. I brought up a recent story where a young woman in Nova Scotia--Rehtaeh Parsons--killed herself after being raped and bullied and harassed in its aftermath.

So, at the end of the class, student comes up to me and wouldn't stop with the argument...."If she was under age I could maybe understand (?) but

....she shouldn't have been there at the party
...she shouldn't have been drinking
...if she hadn't done any of those things, this wouldn't have happened to her..."


Of course, I try to to tell him the onus shouldn't be on women to have to monitor their behaviour in order to avoid/prevent women, and that her behaviour does not negate the rape. That the onus needs to be on men not raping and assaulting. However, he kept INSISTING, but but but if she hadn't done this and that. He was not able or could not (?) see that the discussion shouldn't be on what the victim did or didn't do, but that these men are committing a crime. I told him about consent and lack thereof with intoxication or being passed out, but he kept reverting to the "but if she hadn't done A then B wouldn't have happened to her."

Anyway, it was very frustrating. I am asking if anyone has an article or resource that is simple enough to maybe make him (and others?) in the class understand that the conversation shouldn't be about what these young women did or didn't do prior to being raped. The conversation needs to be about the rapists and raising men to not rape at all. Ever.

So, if you have something--a turn of phrase, an article, anything--that might help these adolescents understand that rape is not about a woman's behaviour, I'd appreciate it.

Sigh. I am still rankled by the conversation.

Thank you.

This site has some simple easy to understand info. This young man is displaying a blaming the victim mentality. It is should not be a womans responsibility to have to act in ways to prevent rape. It is mens responsibility to learn not to rape.

Rape Culture

[Kobi]

Also try a few of these. May or may not work.

[Kobi]

I like this one too:



And there is one more good analogy one that I cant find yet.

[Kobi]

Seems to me, a simple approach might be a more logical format for a potential instant breakthrough. For example.....so if your sister, mother, grandmother are in bed in their own home, asleep, and a man breaks in and rapes them.....they were dressed too provocatively? Shouldnt have been there? Egged him on?

Rape is rape. Adolesents girls are raped, elderly women are raped, nuns are raped, chuldren and babies are raped, men are raped. Fit the lack of logic to the situation.

Pardon my exuberence. I was working on a rape project today. Just spill over.

Found the anaolgy:

[femmeInterrupted]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Seems to me, a simple approach might be a more logical format for a potential instant breakthrough. For example.....so if your sister, mother, grandmother are in bed in their own home, asleep, and a man breaks in and rapes them.....they were dressed too provocatively? Shouldnt have been there? Egged him on?

Rape is rape. Adolesents girls are raped, elderly women are raped, nuns are raped, chuldren and babies are raped, men are raped. Fit the lack of logic to the situation.

Pardon my exuberence. I was working on a rape project today. Just spill over.

Found the anaolgy:

I think it's important to remember that rape is not a crime about sex. It's about power and control. That's why 7 year olds and 77 year olds get raped...Both demographics hardly fit the going standard for 'sexy' in today's society. It is however, a sexualized violence. It's about power OVER. It's about the dehumanization of women and children, the commodification of women and children, and the idea that is so nastily pervasive under the male gaze. Entitlement.

Personally, I don't think your exuberance needs pardoning, although I find myself in the same position often. I think it's O.K. to be passionate about things that require and are deserved of that passion. Violence against women is surely something that everyone SHOULD be passionate about.

I've been doing some research and reading into the gendered nature of anger and outrage. Both natural and appropriate emotions and responses to things that elicit that response. Again, violence against women and social justice comes to mind.

I think as feminists we need to have the discussions around anger, which is problematic in that
A) most examples of anger are that of aggression. It is gendered.
and
B) the notions of what it is to be a woman with anger. We AREN'T supposed to be. We are urged into forgiveness and passivity. We are told that in order to heal we need to let go of that anger. Globally, that's a LOT of women working on reclaiming lives derailed and greatly effected by woman abuse and sexual violation. That's a lot of sisters living lives altered by the reality of sexism, misogyny, racism, heterosexism...

So instead of pushing my anger away, I'm sitting with it, as is sometimes good to do with ALL uncomfortable emotions, because it's there for a reason.

Be passionate! Be angry. Be whatever it takes to feel enough to get active and create change.

Thanks for sharing

[Kobi]

femmeInterrupted this might explain the reasons behind what we have been talking about. The "survey" was done back in 2012 for netmums. Not sure how valid it is in scientific terms but it does explain some of the reluctance, apathy, shifts....I'm not sure what to call it.

Is it a ME focus as the name implies i.e. personal preferences? Does it feel like internalized sexism to some extent with a dash of identification with the aggressor or Stockholm Syndrome? Does it have some valid points?

Does it address some of the anger and women focus of the previous post?

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http://www.netmums.com/

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Soon

I had a disheartening conversation with a fifteen year old (bright) boy today.

As a class, we were discussing sexual assault/rape/slut-shaming and victim blaming. I brought up a recent story where a young woman in Nova Scotia--Rehtaeh Parsons--killed herself after being raped and bullied and harassed in its aftermath.

So, at the end of the class, student comes up to me and wouldn't stop with the argument...."If she was under age I could maybe understand (?) but

....she shouldn't have been there at the party
...she shouldn't have been drinking
...if she hadn't done any of those things, this wouldn't have happened to her..."


Of course, I try to to tell him the onus shouldn't be on women to have to monitor their behaviour in order to avoid/prevent women, and that her behaviour does not negate the rape. That the onus needs to be on men not raping and assaulting. However, he kept INSISTING, but but but if she hadn't done this and that. He was not able or could not (?) see that the discussion shouldn't be on what the victim did or didn't do, but that these men are committing a crime. I told him about consent and lack thereof with intoxication or being passed out, but he kept reverting to the "but if she hadn't done A then B wouldn't have happened to her."

Anyway, it was very frustrating. I am asking if anyone has an article or resource that is simple enough to maybe make him (and others?) in the class understand that the conversation shouldn't be about what these young women did or didn't do prior to being raped. The conversation needs to be about the rapists and raising men to not rape at all. Ever.

So, if you have something--a turn of phrase, an article, anything--that might help these adolescents understand that rape is not about a woman's behaviour, I'd appreciate it.

Sigh. I am still rankled by the conversation.

Thank you.

Sometimes it's as simple as changing the gender of the victim. "So, if you, (directed at the male student), were at a party and became intoxicated, you should expect to be raped. And you should expect photos of yourself being raped to be posted on the internet, and for your former friends to taunt you mercilessly about it. And it would all be your own fault for having gone to a party with other boys and for having drunk too much alcohol."