Recession or Depression?

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Linus

That's actually a similar goal as me. I want to get both a wind turbine and solar panels. I want no debt, one credit card (with $700 limit for emergency and limited online purchase), and land. I want to grow veggies and fruit to live off of and trade my skills with someone to get other things (barter system is an awesome way to go).

No credit card. No debit. I will most likely transition into simple solar BUT my long term goal is not to reply on any company or business to live and sustain. Big fantasy huh? lol I know but I want to get as close as I can.

Look at the Amish? I don't want to adopt their religious beliefs but how they live. You don't see solar panels on those houses. lol

But seriously I see myself in a small simple cabin heated with wood. Growing my food, selling some of what I grow or trading. Maybe share a truck or my van with a few others, make monthly trips to the big city to buy things I can't make or grow. I'm not going to use paper towels, plastic bags, not even toilet paper. I'm sick and tired of the commercialism and not only do we get to struggle in this wanna be democracy but we get to destroy the planet as we suffer.

Yeah its heavy on my mind. I'm tolling a plan and I have my land with a nice creek. Nice cabin with a simple solar system to power my laptop, blackberry and so I can blog and tell everyone else how to do. If the power goes away, I'll still be ok.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Linus

What small business ideas can we toss around to help each other get on our feet using skills we have?

you should network, pull together where each person has a skill set. One person does bees, another hens, another goats for cheese, some grow, some work, some build, Just like communities did way back in the old days.

One little seed can go on and on. I'm still eating tomatoes from seeds I planted years ago. Amazing isnt it?

[Ldyluck88]

Okay, ya'll I have the solution after reading your posts, here it is:
Let's do the ole commune thingy, we all live together, live off the land and promote peace and love!! lol Do you think it would work?? I mean, hell, it worked in the 60's and they seemed to be happy! At least now, we could all apply for food stamps until our gardens grow, LMAO
I don't mean to make fun of a serious problem, but it appears to me that nothing else seems to be working so we need to get back to basics, ya think!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

Okay, ya'll I have the solution after reading your posts, here it is:
Let's do the ole commune thingy, we all live together, live off the land and promote peace and love!! lol Do you think it would work?? I mean, hell, it worked in the 60's and they seemed to be happy! At least now, we could all apply for food stamps until our gardens grow, LMAO
I don't mean to make fun of a serious problem, but it appears to me that nothing else seems to be working so we need to get back to basics, ya think!

yes it would work if people worked at it and left drama out of it. It would work with a spiritual foundation, I dont mean religion or any set agenda but compassionate spiritual balance where everyone did their part.

Grab a tent, set up in the woods and just go for it. I bet in the end you;ll be healthier and happier. I'll give you fresh eggs if you mow my lawn. lol its only fives acres. Spend 10 hours in the garden pulling weeds, planting, hard work but you'll have all the fresh food you can eat.

[Kobi]

Necessity is the Mother of Invention but if it doesnt come with hot water and flush toilets, it is just not my thing.

It is kind of interesting to browse the help wanted ads, if there are any, to see they are looking for people with impecible skills, bubbly personalities, who are willing to work in hectic environment for peanuts. (Rough translation - non-complaining workhorse wanted to add to the disorganized, wasteful environment we call the workplace for minimum wage and no benefits.)

Living in a tourist area with a current unemployment rate of 13%, I was a bit miffed to see that employers are still being allowed to import workers from Jamica, Ireland, Russia etc.

And, it is unsettling to have found I wasnt allowed to refinance my mortgage due to idiotic new federal rules that were suppose to help me not hinder me.

I am thankful my Dad pounded into my head the need to pay myself before I pay any other bills. Savings have been a God send in this economy.

I'm thinking we should band together and become commodity brokers or risk taking bankers. Regardless of how crappy a job we do, we would still get millions in bonuses.

[Jess]

Nothing new under the sun!...

The notion and action of creating self sustaining communities ( like the Amish mentioned earlier) is not new at all and I am willing to bet we see a lot more of this type of thinking happening in the least expected places.

The idea of bartering and supporting/ utilizing farmer's markets and off grid sources for income/ housing/ healthcare and socialization are bound to make a return and we are seeing it already.

The issue with trying to just get a group of folks together to live off the land, as it were, is the same set of issues we have even just with on line communities ( as we have witnessed with many recent threads of discussions). There do have to be rules, unfortunately, or shit hits the fan. Even WITH rules it does, but at least with rules, folks have all agreed upon an ideology initially to fall back on in tiresome times.

There have been successful models to build from for those sincerely seeking to do this. The Amish Community for one, is a very successful albeit very sparse form of community.

The Federation of Egaliatarian Communities is a good working model that I am familiar with.

http://thefec.org/

And Lord knows.. Lesbians have been seeking and sometimes with measures of success to create womens land for evah. An interesting article about that journey ( still ongoing) from The New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...02fa_fact_levy


Good thread! thanks!

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Necessity is the Mother of Invention but if it doesnt come with hot water and flush toilets, it is just not my thing.

It is kind of interesting to browse the help wanted ads, if there are any, to see they are looking for people with impecible skills, bubbly personalities, who are willing to work in hectic environment for peanuts. (Rough translation - non-complaining workhorse wanted to add to the disorganized, wasteful environment we call the workplace for minimum wage and no benefits.)

Living in a tourist area with a current unemployment rate of 13%, I was a bit miffed to see that employers are still being allowed to import workers from Jamica, Ireland, Russia etc.

And, it is unsettling to have found I wasnt allowed to refinance my mortgage due to idiotic new federal rules that were suppose to help me not hinder me.

I am thankful my Dad pounded into my head the need to pay myself before I pay any other bills. Savings have been a God send in this economy.

I'm thinking we should band together and become commodity brokers or risk taking bankers. Regardless of how crappy a job we do, we would still get millions in bonuses.

I still think there has to be a way for the LGBT community to form a group health plan. I don't know how, but dear god, there are enough of us doing without that it only seems a rational thing to pursue.

[turasultana]

seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."

[Jess]

Originally Posted by turasultana

seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."

Good luck lady!!!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Jess

Nothing new under the sun!...

The notion and action of creating self sustaining communities ( like the Amish mentioned earlier) is not new at all and I am willing to bet we see a lot more of this type of thinking happening in the least expected places.

The idea of bartering and supporting/ utilizing farmer's markets and off grid sources for income/ housing/ healthcare and socialization are bound to make a return and we are seeing it already.

The issue with trying to just get a group of folks together to live off the land, as it were, is the same set of issues we have even just with on line communities ( as we have witnessed with many recent threads of discussions). There do have to be rules, unfortunately, or shit hits the fan. Even WITH rules it does, but at least with rules, folks have all agreed upon an ideology initially to fall back on in tiresome times.

There have been successful models to build from for those sincerely seeking to do this. The Amish Community for one, is a very successful albeit very sparse form of community.

The Federation of Egaliatarian Communities is a good working model that I am familiar with.

http://thefec.org/

And Lord knows.. Lesbians have been seeking and sometimes with measures of success to create womens land for evah. An interesting article about that journey ( still ongoing) from The New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...02fa_fact_levy


Good thread! thanks!

actually in our region there are quite a few communities. some open, some closed.


I really like this model
http://twinoaks.org/

its not far from here. everyone works within the community. check it out

[Jess]

Twin Oaks is part of the Fed. I used to go there a lot for mud baths, womens events or just hanging out. Good example

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Jess

Twin Oaks is part of the Fed. I used to go there a lot for mud baths, womens events or just hanging out. Good example

I want to make one like that but less people. They have 100 people. Plus it would be cool to have a bunch of queers.

[weatherboi]

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??

Originally Posted by turasultana

seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."

[Ldyluck88]

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories/opinions/ideas!
I was thinking last night that with all the foreclosures, they could donate(fat chance) a home to the gay community on the premise the land gets used for gardening, etc. We can grow vegtables, sell some and be self sufficient.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I feel we have to be inventive because it is not getting any easier to survive.

[turasultana]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??

I don't have a link. Just something I've heard said by the seniors where I work. And also I believe in relationship to spending /savings patterns overall going forward. I'll try to find some concrete examples of what I mean.

(I work in a huge bank/credit card company - we have town halls on this subject every couple weeks, so sometimes the jargon is by osmosis. :>)

[turasultana]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??

Ok did a very quick google search. too many articles to list so just click here;

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...bb30ecf4f91972

and pick one!

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Corkey

My parents were of the Great Depression era. Now let me explain why I think we are in a recession and not a depression. Our banking system though bruised is still functioning, our supermarkets still have food on their shelves, and though there are millions without jobs, there are millions more who do. ....

I've heard that the unemployment rate during the Great Depression was 25%. I can't imagine what it would be like if one in every four of us were unemployed. It's difficult enough now when it's one in every nine or ten, yanno? And while the safety net is ripped and torn and too many people fall through, we do have at least a minimal safety net in place, for instance, food banks and utility help in many places.

My mom was a Depression Baby. I find myself thinking her favorite quote again and again... "Use it up, wear it out; make it do or do without."

Originally Posted by Sachita

lol- oh this is for Bit- No stinking toilet paper! lol I know you'll remember some of the post we shared about survival.

[PrudenceJuris]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories/opinions/ideas!
I was thinking last night that with all the foreclosures, they could donate(fat chance) a home to the gay community on the premise the land gets used for gardening, etc. We can grow vegtables, sell some and be self sufficient.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I feel we have to be inventive because it is not getting any easier to survive.

There are grant opportunities to acquire land for small urban farming purposes, but you gotta be willing to move to Michigan. Oh well just my 2 cents.

[weatherboi]

Hey turasultana-

I did a search when I first read your original post and came up with pretty much the same results. Besides the first link...the buisness week link...most of them portray the "new normal" negatively. I found a couple of articles that tried to spin the idea that we should start accepting a "new normal" when it comes to this economy down turn because it is believed the "new normal" will fall shorter than the old economy "normal".

The articles I read tell me cutting back to survive is the "new normal"!!

Originally Posted by turasultana

Ok did a very quick google search. too many articles to list so just click here;

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...bb30ecf4f91972

and pick one!

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

I appreciate all your replies and insights to our nation in general. It is not easy in todays environment to survive, and yes, I do believe it will get better, but not anytime soon. Obama needs to figure out how to create new jobs, and helping the middle class people, before I see any turn in employment.
Until then..I think we all are in survival mode and need to help each other.

The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.