It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[BornBronson]

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

[apretty]

ANYway....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

I too have Mexican heritage, therefore why I give a shit..... I love my culture, I live my people, I love how hard we work, how deep we are, and how passionate we are.. So therefore when I see my people being targeted with more shit than they already put up with, I wanna be there front line with them.

[firie]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

See, I beg to differ. If they assist in implementing racist laws, and take a paycheck for it, and don't speak out against it, or try to impact change, then they are indeed very racist cops.

And no, not all American citizens have to "go by the law", nor do they get busted for it when they are not following it. Millions upon millions of white people cross into the US through the Canadian borders illegally each year, and we will never ask our police to yank them out of cars and send them back to their country. Never. I don't suspect cops will be looking for British "illegals" (I quote that because we are very quick to point out Mexican "illegals" but never the ever so pale Brits!) when they are trying to "follow the law." It will be their own personal biases which are used to truly carry out the law, and, I am quite sure, as I said, white people (and there are millions but that is never highlighted because we are a racist country, and so we don't mind white immigration) won't be harassed, or jailed and then shipped up and out of here.

US Immigration "issues" or "problems" are always about brown and black skin and never, really ever about white skin--despite the millions who are here.

[apretty]

in addition to what Firie has posted, i'd like to remind everyone that we have the moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.

additionally, "everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -MLK, Jr.

[firie]

Originally Posted by apretty

in addition to what Firie has posted, i'd like to remind everyone that we have the moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.

additionally, "everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -MLK, Jr.

Fucking a, hell yeah we do! Particularly because they are often put in place by really super duper rich people looking to protect their property and interests.

Great quote by the way, and absolutely on point.

And what always gets me is that immigration "issues" and "problems" are always spawned by the media and their primary funders--our government and corporate interests, and the camera zooms in on what is black and brown, but those corporate interests save billions of dollars in not paying workers (immigrant workers) legal wages or insurance for that matter (oh wait, but in America we're supposed to follow the law!). Think of all the CEOs who should be, yes, I'll say it, rotting in jail for breaking the law (as well as for being able to own four homes and a private jet, and sleep all sorts of cushy, and all off the backs of immigrants--their sweat, lost limbs, and, yeah, deaths). Those interests, the ones the rich keep so dearly protected, are even further strengthened when, and you can check the historical patterns just by doing a quick google, we get a democratic congress or ahem president and there is buzz/stir/a few goosebumps about maybe one of those camps--the president or congress-- looking at amnesty again. And so whenever amnesty is even mildly, so very quietly whispered, we have a "real war" at the border and make all the apathetic, fearful white people in this country scared again about the "immigrants."

The real war here, for me, however, is the human rights violations that are occurring every living second of this day, the racism behind immigration and what being "illegal" really means.

Why aren't the cops also arresting all sorts of people for hiring "illegal" labor? Why aren't those folks going to jail for abusing people, say like in the construction industry, there is no medical comp for an immigrant. He just loses his arm, or leg, and his family doesn't get to eat. The CEO just fills the spot and carries on with his fucking golf game. We, the US, have been breaking all sorts of international human rights violations--breaking international law (but we're all supposed to follow the law!) for as long as the US has been here and has been choking the ever loving shit out of Mexico, since well before Mexican Independence.

Sorry, I have a specific rant here with respect to Mexico and US relations, because it's a bunch of mad fuckery, and I can't help myself. I am not denying that we are on a sociopathic hunt for all immigrants of black and brown skin, but in Texas, immigration "issues" or "problems" are always Mexican.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by firie

Fucking a, hell yeah we do! Particularly because they are often put in place by really super duper rich people looking to protect their property and interests.

Great quote by the way, and absolutely on point.

And what always gets me is that immigration "issues" and "problems" are always spawned by the media and their primary funders--our government and corporate interests, and the camera zooms in on what is black and brown, but those corporate interests save billions of dollars in not paying workers (immigrant workers) legal wages or insurance for that matter (oh wait, but in America we're supposed to follow the law!). Think of all the CEOs who should be, yes, I'll say it, rotting in jail for breaking the law (as well as for being able to own four homes and a private jet, and sleep all sorts of cushy, and all off the backs of immigrants--their sweat, lost limbs, and, yeah, deaths). Those interests, the ones the rich keep so dearly protected, are even further strengthened when, and you can check the historical patterns just by doing a quick google, we get a democratic congress or ahem president and there is buzz/stir/a few goosebumps about maybe one of those camps--the president or congress-- looking at amnesty again. And so whenever amnesty is even mildly, so very quietly whispered, we have a "real war" at the border and make all the apathetic, fearful white people in this country scared again about the "immigrants."

The real war here, for me, however, is the human rights violations that are occurring every living second of this day, the racism behind immigration and what being "illegal" really means.

Why aren't the cops also arresting all sorts of people for hiring "illegal" labor? Why aren't those folks going to jail for abusing people, say like in the construction industry, there is no medical comp for an immigrant. He just loses his arm, or leg, and his family doesn't get to eat. The CEO just fills the spot and carries on with his fucking golf game. We, the US, have been breaking all sorts of international human rights violations--breaking international law (but we're all supposed to follow the law!) for as long as the US has been here and has been choking the ever loving shit out of Mexico, since well before Mexican Independence.

Sorry, I have a specific rant here with respect to Mexico and US relations, because it's a bunch of mad fuckery, and I can't help myself. I am not denying that we are on a sociopathic hunt for all immigrants of black and brown skin, but in Texas, immigration "issues" or "problems" are always Mexican.

Hence why it's important to *me* it feels like a bounty has been put on my people and they are scared, and don't fucking anyone (yes I know you will) come in here and sell me the shit that they are not...


Also....... This is not just this whole *brown* people issue, it's a *HUMAN* issue, ffs they are people, not vermin and to portray them as such...is so ugly---This is just so so ugly..... and sad.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Hence why it's important to *me* it feels like a bounty has been put on my people and they are scared, and don't fucking anyone (yes I know you will) come in here and sell me the shit that they are not...


Also....... This is not just this whole *brown* people issue, it's a *HUMAN* issue, ffs they are people, not vermin and to portray them as such...is so ugly---This is just so so ugly..... and sad.

it's absolutely a 'human' issue-- racism, bigotry, prejudices erode our society, despite who the TARGET is.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it

Gee, Obama's been in office a little over a year. He's had to deal with pesky little things like economic meltdown and two wars.

McCain, meanwhile, has been Arizona's elected representative in Washington for 28 years. This should be at the very top of his priority list, yet after 28 years, it's still a problem. Why point the blame at the new kid on the block instead of at the guy who's been around and representing that very state for almost 3 decades?

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

It's not Obama trying to gain minority votes that pushed this up the priority list. The Republicans did this. The AZ legislature started it and several other states and lots of big mouths on Faux Newz are pushing it along. If Obama gains latino support from this, it'll be because of what the Republicans are doing.

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

thanks for mentioning this (as well as the rest of your post). i also don't get the qualifier, 'minority' to define a voter. like, as if their vote is somehow less desirable.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

Problem is the Gov, usurped the federal mandate. That is against the 14th amendment. She broke federal law in signing Az's racist law.
The rest of your post has been answered by others.

[key]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't .........,good call Mr.Obama.

.

While "Mr. Obama" is a "Mister", he is actually much more than just a "Mr."

"Mr. Obama" is actually "President Obama" It is a title that only 43 other humans on earth have held. It is a pretty big damn title that has been and continues to be earned and should be respected.

By calling President Obama "Mr. Obama" it feels to me as a show of your disdain and disrespect for him, the man and for the office and title that he holds.

Just had to say something.

Carry on.

[Diva]

Say what You will about Texas.....but there are plans for the Austin City Council ~ I know, it's just Austin ~ to Boycott Arizona at their next meeting in a couple of weeks.

Austin will take any business with Arizona elsewhere.

Evidently, there are several other cities around the nation who are doing the same thing.

[Jess]

I may have missed it but I have yet to see any offer here of what exactly to boycott.

Here's a start:

http://padresunidos.org/node/515

Boycotting something that just has the name Arizona in it seems to be what a lot of folks are doing, hence the earlier comment about Arizona Tea.

Hope this helps... please note U-Haul is based in AZ. Heh. There goes the ole dyke first date thang.

[key]

Thanks Jess for that link.

I find it helpful to make a list of Arizona based companies I might possibly use without even realizing it.

Go Daddy

PetSmart

US Airways

Mesa Airlines

Freedom Airlines

Dial Corporation (read your labels they are everywhere)

Checker Auto Parts, Schucks Auto Supply, Kragen Auto Parts, Murray's Discount Auto Stores (All part of CSK Auto based in Phoenix)

Best Western

and finally and most sadly...

Cold Stone Creamery

And it is also helpful and reinforcing to me to go ahead and call or email them to let them know you are taking your business elsewhere.

[dreadgeek]

I thought it would be helpful, since Americans seem to have a rather ahistorical view of ourselves, to take a little trip down history lane vis a vis America and race and immigration. Supporters of the Arizona law keep pretending that there just *couldn't* be any hint of racial bias or any danger of the law being applied in a racially biased way as if America had a clean slate on race. We don't. So, let me put on my Mr. Peabody costume for the moment and we'll just hop in the way-back machine:

Mid-16th century to Mid-18th century: Europeans begin arriving to the Western Hemisphere in earnest. They find indigenous populations living here who they immediately set to killing and stealing their land. (As an aside, one can only imagine that the indigenous populations living in the interior of the country might have had some rather strong words for the East Coast populations along the lines of: "ya know, if y'all had just driven them back into the sea the minute they got here, we'd have all been appreciative of that".

Mid-18th century to the early 19th century: European settlement of the Western hemisphere carries on apace. At the same time, Europeans and Middle Eastern empires descend upon Western Africa and start grabbing the inhabitants there who, it must be noted, were completely out of EVERYONE'S way, and begin transporting them across the Atlantic as slaves. Yes, it is true that slavery existed in Africa. Yes, it is also true that tribal chieftains would sell off people they had conquered or who were problematic to slavers. However, this is one of those 'is it the supply side or the demand side' problems and we needn't spend too much time here because, for our purposes, it does not matter. What is germane here is that Africans were taken from Africa and brought to the Americas as property--livestock if you will. In the meantime, what started as a trickle becomes full-blown expansion and a genocide begins.

Early to Mid-19th century: Expansion of Americas continues. Slavery continues. Trans-Atlantic slave trade ends in 1809 (for comparison by this point England is *paying* other nations to either ban slavery or ban the slave trade or both). Mid-century, North America is completely and utterly under the control of the descendants of Europeans. The indigenous population is coming to the horrifying conclusion that they have lost and that their civilization is coming to a quick end. The US Supreme court decides Dred Scott stating that blacks in America have no rights that whites are bound by law or custom to respect. A war is fought over slavery. The 13th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution are ratified. One might think that universal brotherhood now rules in America. One would be wrong.

Mid-19th to Early 20th century: The transcontinental railroad is built, with large numbers of Chinese immigrants who die in truly astounding numbers. In the meantime, the indigenous population has dwindled to less than a tenth of their original estimated numbers (largely, it should be said, because of smallpox). In the Deep South, blacks come under the rule of Jim Crow laws. At the same time there is an influx of Polish, Irish, Italian and East European Jews into America. Each one is greeted by some strain of "we don't want you here you dirty <insert slur here>".

Early to Mid-20th century: The indigenous population is now a mere shadow of what it was. The black population is largely concentrated in the South (60%+) and are citizens in as much as they are subject to American law but the law, as it were, is not applicable to *them* equally. In other words, they are not equally protected by the law. WW I breaks out. Interestingly, Germans aren't rounded up in large numbers, even though America is at war (for a year) with the Germans. WW II breaks out, America enters the war in 1941 and Japanese citizens are rounded up. Again, interestingly, German and Italian Americans are not rounded up *unless* they commit an act that is actually treasonous. Japanese citizens are rounded up without having done anything at all. The war ends, the military is desegregated, then baseball is desegregated, large numbers of blacks who left the South stay gone settling in places like Oakland (Kaiser shipyards) or Detroit (the auto industry). Brown v. Board is passed and whites in the South lose their minds. Bricks are thrown at children going to school--it should be noted here that the brick throwers were white and the throwees (call them targets) were black *children*.

Mid to late 20th Century: Various civil rights laws are passed. Johnson signs the Civil Rights Act into law and then makes the most prescient statement in American political history "with this, we just lost the South for a generation". The Republican party adopts that 'Southern Strategy' on the strength of the writing of Kevin Phillips (who, to his credit, has spent most of his post-Watergate years trying to make up for the monster he helped unleash on America). Large numbers of immigrants from Mexico and Central America arrive.

Late 20th century to Early 21st: The millennium begins with, quite literally, a bang as 19 enterprising young men from Saudi Arabia hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Suddenly being Middle Eastern in America is far *less* comfortable than it was (and it wasn't precisely peaches and cream before). In the meantime, more immigration comes in from south of the border and an anti-immigration movement is born. America gets two black secretaries of state in a row and then, to a lot of people's surprise, a black president.

(continued next post)

[dreadgeek]

So, let's look at what we have.

From the 16th century until the middle of the 20th century it would be fairly generous grading to give America a D- on the whole. I mean, objectively, the record doesn't even *begin* to look decent until the Civil War and then it only really looks decent in comparison to what came before it. It isn't until the first quarter of the 20th century that the majority, European descended population, decides that it is willing to play nice with OTHER European descended populations and even that grudgingly. It isn't until the middle of the 20th century that the European descended majority decides that it's willing to contemplate something that resembles fair play for it's non-white citizens and even *then* there's still lots of racist language and 'jokes' that are tossed around.

So, by the time most of us here left our mother's wombs, we could reasonably say that, perhaps, America had improved its grade (but not it's GPA) to a high C or low-B. It's only in the last 20 years that one could fairly say that America has moved into a solid B with moments of A-minus. That actually doesn't bode well for America's overall GPA.

Let's call the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries Fs. Let's call the 19th and the first part of the 20th century a D-. Let's call everything after 1950 but before 1990 a C-. We'll call the last 20 years a B. So the GPA is probably around a 2.5 or so.

Now, given all of that--and I doubt there is anyone here who could seriously dispute the overall shape of what I have laid out historically since it's all a matter of record--how likely is it, given the history of this country, that there is NO racism involved in this law? I'd say not bloody likely. How likely is it that race is not a significant driver of this law? I'd say vanishingly improbable.

And yet, we're supposed to treat this law as if it happened in a nation that has no history of bigotry against either immigrants or non-white people? You might recall that in part one I accused Americans of thinking ahistorically, I think you can now see what I mean.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by key

Thanks Jess for that link.

I find it helpful to make a list of Arizona based companies I might possibly use without even realizing it.

Go Daddy

PetSmart

US Airways

Mesa Airlines

Freedom Airlines

Dial Corporation (read your labels they are everywhere)

Checker Auto Parts, Schucks Auto Supply, Kragen Auto Parts, Murray's Discount Auto Stores (All part of CSK Auto based in Phoenix)

Best Western

and finally and most sadly...

Cold Stone Creamery

And it is also helpful and reinforcing to me to go ahead and call or email them to let them know you are taking your business elsewhere.

Actually the one that gets me most is PetSmart. Our dog has a sensitive stomach and so we have to feed him a special diet. What's we've found is for his wet food, Blue Buffalo Herring and Sweet Potato works well (yes, we know how dyke-y we are) and the only place we've found that carries it is PetSmart. Petco doesn't. That's going to be inconvenient, everything else we can live with. Pretty much anything I'm likely to buy for my car, I can do in the auto section of Fred Meyers and everything else I take it to my mechanic ('cuz computers, I do. Science, I do. Give me a bunsen burner, some chemicals, a microscope or telescope, I'm your girl. There is NO way I'm working on my car myself. I presume precision German engineering is just a polite way of saying "no, this isn't a 64 1/2 Mustang that you can go mucking about in so keep your non-grubby mitts out of the engine compartment!") and I'd hate to take it to the Audi dealer and have the mechanic say "Ummm, you DO realize that you broke your car, right?"


cheers
Aj

[apretty]

warning: pet-moment to follow.

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

...Our dog has a sensitive stomach and so we have to feed him a special diet. What's we've found is for his wet food, Blue Buffalo Herring and Sweet Potato works well (yes, we know how dyke-y we are) ...
Aj

( today i was told that the beasts have run out of their special low fat, duck jerky-strips, again (so that i can buy them while i'm out today).

once i compared the for-*human*-consumption, frozen chicken breast to the cost of the low-fat jerky treats and the treats cost TWICE as much as the "human" food.

i want a dyke-y award!! /derail. )

[Rook]

A few artists are already starting in the Protest, and those that aren't well informed are Looking into it directly..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100430/...o_ricky_martin

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100430/...on_enforcement

Btw...
About that Cold Stone Creamery?