Being female within Butch

[ProfPacker]

it always amazes that you get what you need when you need it. Miss Tick spoke of many of my feelings. However as many know I have discovered and allowed my more masculine side to emerge and yet still feel like a female and a woman. I do feel the woman part reciding as I feel more butch but I like to embrace all parts of myself. I do feel that at times I love how I have evolved as butch in dress and demeanor and feeling. The world sees me as a woman and my kids see me as a woman although I feel more female than woman.

However, there are times that I feel between two worlds. The world that knew me before my change in my sense of self and the world that knows me as I change.

I have to admit and this is hard that when I am id'd as I have been as someone's bf I am both excited by it and confused by it and my feeling. It is about gender not sex. I don't know where this is going but this thread is very good for me.

[Ascot]

It certainly wasn't my intent to let this thread languish. Darn that pesky thing called life getting in the way!

It's funny how things go. The other day I was shopping and as I was perusing the shampoo (I change it up fairly regularly) this thread crossed my mind. Prior to starting it, I'd never once given any thought to whether what I washed my hair with was created for someone with an estrogen based physiology. I've most often made my choice based on the fragrance of it. I appreciated that I'd been given that food for thought.

What I've most been thinking about is the masculinity vs. male idea;lately I've been taking a much closer look at it. As someone said, Miss Tick I think, it can be quite difficult sifting one from the other. Societally. there is most often little if any difference between the constructs. I will readily admit that within my ideal butch/femme framework, there are elements of the heteronormative paradigm that appeal to me greatly. A large part of that appeal is the perversion of it that exists because there are two women in the dynamic; me, the masculine half who adores and revels in the glorious femininity of the other half even as she is enamored of and excited by my masculinity. It may well happen that some of our responsibilities break down along stereotypical gender lines and I love that, when I have one, my partner appreciates that I'm still very much female. There are particular contexts in which I find being called Sir incredibly erotic. (The grocery store is not one of them) I wear men's clothes, I take up space, I am unapologetic about my assertive energy. To many who don't know any better, I'm sure these traits and many more would have them thinking I'm "the man" in the relationship. Sometimes I want to rail against such ignorance, but the fact is, most of the time I'm fine with it. I get off on it and play with it on occasion. I don't care what it looks like to anyone from the outside. Still, I've not once ever harbored a desire to truly be male. I enjoy straddling that line, twisting it, blurring it, but I don't ever wish to be completely on the other side of it. As far as I'm concerned, being Butch is the best of all possible worlds for me. I get to be as masculine as suits me without having to pick up some of the baggage that this world can put on men. I also don't feel as though I'm missing out on anything because I'm not granted whatever perceived benefits come with "male privilege".

[TruTexan]

I love being the butch that I am and that equates to straddling and blurring the lines for me as well. I have never wanted to be male or a man. I love being the woman that I am, strong minded, assertive, even aggressive. I too am often seen as "the man" in the relationship, even though that isn't true. I don't even bother correcting people anymore, it doesn't bother me what they think, it's what *I* think that matters and how *I* feel about who I am. And with that, I Love Who I Am and That Happens to be a Female , a Woman, and Butch.

The ONLY thing that bothers me is how butches are treated within our own community, the lesbian community. for those that don't understand us and what it means to be butch, that we don't want to be a man. I've heard it time and time again said to me and to femme friends that date butches ..."If you want to be a man, get a sex change" and "If you want a man, then why not just be with one". That just curles my stomach into knots and makes me step up and speak up. Thank goodness I haven't heard that much in my life though. But the times that I have, it got pretty heated during an argument that ensued over what was said.

[Ascot]

That sucks, Tru, what you've experienced. Even trying hard to recall, I cannot remember one instance wherein I've been the recipient of any butch backlash within the lesbian community. I was surprised and disappointed when you said you have. Maybe, because the folks I tend to associate with most are at least BDSM leaning, there is more openness? I don't ever face denigration of any sort. I don't generally in my life beyond the community, either. Yeah, sure, as I mentioned in my Butch Visibility thread, there's that one motherfucker at the locally owned hardware store and even he's starting to mellow a tad. It's been a long while, but I'm wearing him down.

I mean no disrespect to any of my brethren nor am I intentionally inviting scorn when I say that it's definitely the case that some butches have a major chip on their shoulder. I know I do about certain things from time to time, but it's never connected to how I make my Butch way in the world. I'm sure mine all have to do with things I'm not so keen on in myself. Likely, probably even, the chips are not unwarranted. A chip, wariness, reticence, discomfort in ones' skin, accessibility, trust, easygoingness, you name it...all of these things, I believe, emit vibrations/energy/some message that others react to subconsciously. I will talk with anyone, and it never crosses my mind to wonder what their feelings are regarding my butchness. (I'm talking about the public at large. I often think about what Femmes think and feel in proximity to my butchness) It's not something on me. It's in me. It is me. I knew I was queer when I was a little kid. And, while I didn't have the vernacular to label myself Butch, I knew myself to be not at all girly. It's never been a separate part of my identity. I'm meandering. I wonder if butches who embraced that aspect of themselves later in their journey and who might not yet feel quite so settled into it are also those who most get less than positive treatment? Some people are just asshats and butchness has nothing to do with it. Back to the chip thing. If you've had a lot of bad shit happen to you specifically because you're Butch, it makes sense that you might be on the defensive a lot of the time. I've talked about shouldering it. About how by being butch I'm outing myself every time I leave the house. I like that. I like that as I go about my day I hope at least one stranger who interacted me had the thought, "Yeah, she's definitely a lesbian, and she's friendly and funny and just like everybody else. Huh." I think it must be dreadful to assume that people are going to react negatively to your butchness. My shoulders tighten just imagining it. I'm not sure where I'm going with this...

Another thing I think would be fun and interesting to talk about are those traits/passions/hobbies we might possess or engage in that are considered decidedly more feminine by most everyone. Do you think, "Because I'm Butch, everything I do is Butch!" or are you more like me and from time to time catch yourself thinking, "Hmm, that was pretty girly."? There is nothing negative for me in such thinking, but there is definite amusement. A straight female friend is getting married in August, and the last time we got together for lunch, she asked if afterward I would help her shop for necklaces for her bridesmaids. She has a particular color scheme in mind, but otherwise the style is wide open. I think she's going to base her choices on the bridesmaids' personalities which I think is cool. So there I am, prowling vintage shops, combing through piles of jewelry, offering commentary. It was a lot of fun and felt pretty girly. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. That "I'm doing something girly" sensation...it's hard to describe. It's amusing as I said, and strange though it might seem, in a way it's reaffirming of my butchness. The dichotomy, maybe? Mentally it kind of feels like playing dress up. Sometimes it's just fun to flounce.

[BullDog]

I haven't received bad treatment in lesbian communities either, and I have lived in some of the most lesbian-centric places in the U.S. (Santa Cruz, CA; Ithaca, NY; Portland, OR and now near Northhampton, MA). All those places have lots and lots of lesbians. I've been to tons of lesbian events and been out with butch friends and seen other butches around and observed how people have been treated for over 30 years. So I do think my experience does count for something and has a lot of data backing it up. I just haven't seen lots of bad treatment of butches by lesbians.

However, I have seen lesbians be suspect of femmes, thinking they are straight women in the wrong place. That I have seen on numerous occasions.

(Lots of butches and femmes are also lesbians, I just separated it in the above to make it easier to read.)

So I am sorry for any butches who have received poor treatment from lesbians, but there are assholes in every group of people.

I do experience random homophobia from time to time, but for the most part I am treated fine. And then sometimes people are just rude and has nothing to do with me being a butch or dyke. It happens to everyone.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Ascot

...

It's not something on me. It's in me. It is me.

...

That, my friend, perfectly describes my perception of all that's glorious about butches.

I apologise to any and all if I'm being invasive by commenting here, but I felt a need to highlight that quote.

[TruTexan]

I haven't had a lot of ill things said towards me, just some by asshats in the community and they happened to be the same ones that said the same thing to my friends I was with, as I stated in my last post.I just wanted to clarify that it was androgenous lesbians that said the things they said for whatever reason.I guess they didn't like the label thing, I dunno and I don't care. There are just bad apples in the bowl ya know, no matter what community you're in. I didn't mean to make it appear that there were LOTS Of them doing that. It's happened, I moved on since then, I don't harbor ill will towards them, and I've grown from it. I pretty much have known all my years as being lesbian, since I was 16 or 17 when I finally came out that I was Butch. I have always felt comfortable with that. I don't carry a chip on my shoulder for it happening, but I'm sure there are some that might out there. I can only speak for myself, and no chip here for it.
I've done things with women that some might consider girly, like helping them clothes shop for what looks good on them, jewelry, hell I even shop in the womens section for my underwear and bras at Jockey store. I am not girly by any means, but it doesn't bother me to do things they may seem that way. Doesn't affect who I am as a butch or my butchness. I just move along through life doing stuff I like to do, most of the time don't even think about it.
Although most of my jobs have been male oriented working jobs, doesn't make me male either. I'm me, the best me that can be, and I"m good with ME doing and making the butch that I am the way I DO BUTCH.
Every butch does butch differently for themselves. What one butch does , another might not do. To each butch their own butchness the way They Do butch. Some paint their toe nails and some don't. some shave their legs and underarms, some don't. Some wear women's clothing and/or underwear, some don't. Who am I to judge how another butch does butch, so to each their own way.

[Ascot]

Thank you, Cheryl. It was lovely of you to say that. I'm glad you found that idea so resonant. Your participation is certainly far from invasive. By all means, please continue if you wish.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Ascot

I mean no disrespect to any of my brethren nor am I intentionally inviting scorn when I say that it's definitely the case that some butches have a major chip on their shoulder... A chip, wariness, reticence, discomfort in ones' skin, accessibility, trust, easygoingness, you name it...all of these things, I believe, emit vibrations/energy/some message that others react to subconsciously. I will talk with anyone, and it never crosses my mind to wonder what their feelings are regarding my butchness... I wonder if butches who embraced that aspect of themselves later in their journey and who might not yet feel quite so settled into it are also those who most get less than positive treatment? ... If you've had a lot of bad shit happen to you specifically because you're Butch, it makes sense that you might be on the defensive a lot of the time.

I don't think I have a major chip or even a minor one on my shoulder. I am comfortable in my skin and I don't walk through the world wary and reticent. And while I don't know what vibrations i may be emitting that other's react to subconsciously, my expectation is not that they will have a negative reaction to my butchness. I will also talk with anyone. I did not embrace my butchness late in my journey and I am quite settled into it. That being said, I have over the years experienced some extremely negative reactions to my butchness. However, it certainly isn't the norm. It isn't my everyday experience with the world. Everyone I meet isn't trying to beat the crap out of me. But some people have. And some have hurt me badly enough that I take measures to not let it happen again. I really don't think I did anything to deserve what happened to me. I don't think it was my fault due to a chip on my shoulder or not being comfortable in my skin or really anything at all that I did except to carry masculinity in a female body unapologetically. I don't think I was defensive nor am I now, but I do try to be aware of what is going on around me and i listen to my gut. I am not looking for trouble but neither am I blissfully unaware of what can happen when a couple of people decide they don't like my looks. Shit happens, but I'm not to blame for it. However I am responsible for my own safety and my ultimate goal is always to avoid getting hurt whenever possible.