It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

oh please....

You come up on in here and start saying how we take your jobs, and how Americans are suffering from job loss due to Latinos and you want to call me presumptuous and racist..

All my people were wet backs Kobi, all of them, I am too.

So don't tell me how we take your jobs, we do jobs American's don't wanna get up off their asses and do including raising their children

Lady Snow,

This isnt even worth responding to. Obviously you have some issue which I have no intention of making mine.

[The_Lady_Snow]

That's the thing right there Corkey, you said it, this fucking law *targets* a particular kind of people..

Let's be honest, they are not going to pull the irish undocumented worker are they?

No they are gonna go for the brown one, who looks like one of them kinds that take American jobs..

Yessiree buddy

*spits* Redman out

[Linus]

Some thoughts about the cost of "illegal immigrants" (undocumented workers is more accurate): http://cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html <-- this study indicates both the extra $$$ the undocumented workers bring in as well as areas where they take more. I think what was interesting was this:

Because both their income and tax compliance would rise, we estimate that under the most likely scenario the average illegal alien household would pay 77 percent ($3,200) more a year in federal taxes once legalized. While not enough to offset the 118 percent ($8,200) per household increase in costs that would come with legalization, amnesty would significantly increase both the average income and tax payments of illegal aliens.

I can certainly see the benefit of not becoming documented. To say that they should return home and put efforts there, I do not think that's realistic. In my last work related visit to Mexico City (Santa Fe to be specific), I saw a billboard -- by one of the local cartels -- advertising work with full benefits (including education for kids). The reality is that the country -- from what I saw and read in the local english papers (not sure how accurate they were) -- or at least the gov't continues a fairly corrupt and the only solution would be civil war. This could mean a whole family being killed. Compare this to coming to the US where the worst is deportation and/or jail.

I dunno. I can see why it's more appealing to come here. Additionally, CIS does point out that when the first "settlers" (read: illegal immigrants) landed in the US there was no gov't and any gov't was rather small and localized. If the gov't was like what exists today back then, I can bet that many wouldn't be allowed to stay.

Originally Posted by Kobi

Funny, how our economy is in the tank and I see more Americans doing landscaping and general labor work this year then ever. A job is a job, and our priority should be to citizens and those here legally.

I don't know if removing the undocumented would resolve the work scenario. Many of the jobs that are maintained/held by undocumented workers are below minimum wage, have no benefits and are difficult. It's not to say that a US citizen wouldn't be able to do to the work, I can bet that the company wouldn't last long without someone suing them for their wages being too low, which in turn, would likely cause it to close.

Companies can use H2 visas and get workers here legally to do "scut work". One does not have to resort to illegal people..

Umm.. My company is applying for an H1-B for me. They got me an L1-B previously. That one cost the company $20K. I have no idea how much it will cost to get the H1-B (and eventual green card) but the reality is that it's not as cheap or easy to get those visas. Additionally, it will force companies to pay -- at minimum -- minimum wage. For some, this would defeat the benefit of having a worker from the South (which seems to be the most concern -- few seemed concerned "aboot" all them Canadians staying here).

I think it's myopic for any nation to say that the solution to everything is to "kick out the illegals!". That will not resolve issues and will actually make things worse.



You can read the full CIS study here: http://www.cis.org/node/54

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Lady Snow,

This isnt even worth responding to. Obviously you have some issue which I have no intention of making mine.

So lemme get this straight...

I have an issue???

With since you know me so well???

Cause I thought we were discussing, debating, having a heated discussion on how *you* brought up the facts we take your jobs...

Am I wrong?

Notice the brown loud girl who does not speak proper sentences gets told she has *issues*

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Lady Snow,

This isnt even worth responding to. Obviously you have some issue which I have no intention of making mine.

Yes.

She has an issue. It's her brown skin genius.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

What does the work done by medical residency students have to do with the conversation.?

The H-2 Visa is for temporary and seasonal workers: http://www.usvisa.com/h-2_visa.shtml

I believe it was designed to allow and make it easier for Mexican (I believe it was targeted as part of NAFTA) workers to do seasonal farm work, I believe the costs associated with getting it are too hire for farms to get. Additionally, since it's a one-time only, it's not a truly viable visa.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So lemme get this straight...

I have an issue???

With since you know me so well???

Cause I thought we were discussing, debating, having a heated discussion on how *you* brought up the facts we take your jobs...

Am I wrong?

Notice the brown loud girl who does not speak proper sentences gets told she has *issues*

Yes, yet AGAIN the brown loud girl is dismissed under the guise of having issues.

I really think that poster needs to read the TOS and maybe back away from the racist statements they are making.

As a Latina, and a member and a HUMAN it is hurtful. It is divisive. It is also uninformed and untrue.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Linus

The H-2 Visa is for temporary and seasonal workers: http://www.usvisa.com/h-2_visa.shtml

I believe it was designed to allow and make it easier for Mexican (I believe it was targeted as part of NAFTA) workers to do seasonal farm work, I believe the costs associated with getting it are too hire for farms to get. Additionally, since it's a one-time only, it's not a truly viable visa.

Linus, I was responding to:
Companies can use H2 visas and get workers here legally to do "scut work".
"Scut work" is the trivial crap that medical students have to do. I figure that if one is going to put out slang expressions in quotes, one should know what the quoted expression means.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Linus, I was responding to:
Companies can use H2 visas and get workers here legally to do "scut work".
"Scut work" is the trivial crap that medical students have to do. I figure that if one is going to put out slang expressions in quotes, one should know what the quoted expression means.

Ah. I wasn't aware it was specific to medical. I thought it just meant: "trivial, unrewarding, tedious, dirty, and disagreeable chores"

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Linus

Ah. I wasn't aware it was specific to medical. I thought it just meant: "trivial, unrewarding, tedious, dirty, and disagreeable chores"

Oh you mean those jobs those people take from American's right?

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Linus

Ah. I wasn't aware it was specific to medical. I thought it just meant: "trivial, unrewarding, tedious, dirty, and disagreeable chores"

Check out scutwork.com

[Kobi]

Again, just because you dont like my views, does not give you the right to be disagreeable.

Nor does disagreeing with you have anything to do with racism. It doesnt matter if you are brown, black, yellow, white or purple. There are laws in this country about immigration for a reason. To decide arbitrarily that one will circumvent those laws because it suits one does not make it acceptable. Just as it would not be acceptable to say murder is ok. You cannot pick and choose which laws you adhere to.

But then again, it is easier to just pull out the race card and feed on emotions than it is to deal with the people deliberately and willfully breaking the law.

H2 workers have nothing to do with medical residency students. H2 workers here in my area are supermarket workers, hotel workers, laborers etc. And thats a fact.

Just because I see things differently doesnt mean I am not uneducated or ill informed. Again, that is liberal rhetoric to divert attention from the matter at hand by knitpicking every detail for which there is evidence for both points of view. But then again, it serves your purpose to claim superior knowledge without having a clue about what my history or experience might be. Self serving I guess.

And that is what a knee jerk liberal is. Saying you have the only truth and your views, being more compassionate must be right, and you must quell anyone who dares to speak a different truth because it doesnt fit the program.

One can have compassion and also be reasonable and logical. But, again, it doesnt fit the liberal agenda to have such people speak out.

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Can you explain how the expression "knee jerk" applies to this conversation? The people posting here have done their homework, they've researched the facts, and some of them have lived the topic. If having compassion makes us bleeding hearts, so be it. That's so very preferable to being heartless.

Migrant workers are a backbone of our economy. Businesses hire them and pay them less because those workers have no protection. They can be subjected to harsh conditions and underpaid (or not paid at all), while the business can either keep prices down or pocket the additional money that they're not paying in wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. If you're bothered by immigrant workers, you should be talking to your representatives about cracking down on the businesses that hire them.

Those folks are probably doing the work under the table, not paying taxes on their earnings and illegally subsidizing their unemployment benefits. If they get sick, they're likely using the emergency room for health care, since unemployment benefits aren't enough to pay COBRA. Are you angry that these people aren't paying in to the system while they are using expensive medical services, or is it okay since they're, you know, white and all.

I also gotta point out how racist your comment is. You see "more Americans"? I think you mean "more folks who's skin ain't brown". You can't tell from driving by a work site who is and isn't an American. You'd be the kind of person who would assume that the guy doing my yard work is "illegal" because he's brown. Wrong. He's got a blue passport.
What does the work done by medical residency students have to do with the conversation.?

We're all still eagerly awaiting your injection of facts in to the conversation.

[SuperFemme]

the law in AZ is unconstitutional. that means it affects us all. it is the chipping away of our rights little by little.

at the end of the day, i feel safer knowing who doesn't like my people than having them hide in the shadows.

wink wink.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Last time I checked no laws were being passed to target and single out the purple people of Crayola land...

A law DID PASS targeting one specific type of looking kind of peoples...

It's not irish undocumented workers

It's not the Canadian undocumented workers

It's not the Russian undocumented workers

It's those pesky gosh darn latinos, who keep crossing over taking all those Wall Street jobs and sending their kids to those gosh darn Ivy League Schools..

All my people, (who do not identify with the purple people who DON'T EXIST) are wet backs, I am, my kids are first generation Americanos...

I was an undocumented problem for this country taking your jobs till the age of 13 when I got my green card...


I am still taking your jobs.

Now you tell me why the fuck I get to have a big target on my fucking back?

I bet I know more about your History than you (general btw).


So you see this isn't a liberal knee jerk reaction, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WE GO THROUGH.. HOW WE HIDE... HOW SCARED WE GROW UP...

So yeah

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Again, just because you dont like my views, does not give you the right to be disagreeable.

Nor does disagreeing with you have anything to do with racism. It doesnt matter if you are brown, black, yellow, white or purple. There are laws in this country about immigration for a reason. To decide arbitrarily that one will circumvent those laws because it suits one does not make it acceptable. Just as it would not be acceptable to say murder is ok. You cannot pick and choose which laws you adhere to.

But then again, it is easier to just pull out the race card and feed on emotions than it is to deal with the people deliberately and willfully breaking the law.

H2 workers have nothing to do with medical residency students. H2 workers here in my area are supermarket workers, hotel workers, laborers etc. And thats a fact.

Just because I see things differently doesnt mean I am not uneducated or ill informed. Again, that is liberal rhetoric to divert attention from the matter at hand by knitpicking every detail for which there is evidence for both points of view. But then again, it serves your purpose to claim superior knowledge without having a clue about what my history or experience might be. Self serving I guess.

And that is what a knee jerk liberal is. Saying you have the only truth and your views, being more compassionate must be right, and you must quell anyone who dares to speak a different truth because it doesnt fit the program.

One can have compassion and also be reasonable and logical. But, again, it doesnt fit the liberal agenda to have such people speak out.

So I just thanked your post for you being the second person to tell me on this site that I am using my race card

Congratfuckinglations


I did not realize speaking about my experience was me throwing my fucking race like it's a god damn Pokemon Card......

[MsDemeanor]

Kobi, you've made lots of attack statements, but have yet to provide thoughtful arguments. Is there any chance that you'll quit spewing hate and rage and tossing around red herring sound bites and instead start engaging in productive discourse, or shall we just move on without you?

[SuperFemme]

it's a circular conversation at this point.

[SuperFemme]

[MsDemeanor]

Perhaps I was a little hasty and made an assumption. I'll restate. My question is in regards to this comment:
Funny, how our economy is in the tank and I see more Americans doing landscaping and general labor work this year then ever.
Would you please tell us exactly how you know that the people doing these jobs are Americans?

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Kobi

It is always amusing how if you dont not ascribe to the knee jerk bleeding heart liberal stance , one is subject to ridicule and rudeness. Im used to it here.

It does not diminsh the fact that illegal workers diminish the wages of Americans....why pay more for American workers when we can go get illegal day laborers for a mere fraction of a living wage. It also undermines our overall standard of living. But, why focus on those facts when we can resort to how Americans dont want to do real labor.

Funny, how our economy is in the tank and I see more Americans doing landscaping and general labor work this year then ever. A job is a job, and our priority should be to citizens and those here legally.

Companies can use H2 visas and get workers here legally to do "scut work". One does not have to resort to illegal people.

But, as I said, it is easier for knee jerk liberals to be profane and rude then to inject any rhyme or reason into the situation. Preying on emotions rather than facts is sad but customary.

I have to ask, do you have any idea how many H2 visas are allotted yearly?

Do you read credible and accredited economist, one who happens to have a Nobel Price in his home, state the fact that immigration, documented or undocumented actually helps the US economy?

And it helps US economy and those good ole US entrepreneurs to pay undocumented workers less. It allows those business owners to get more profits and pay less taxes. yay for them!

As a MEMBER of this community I am going to kindly ask you to stop using the term "illegal immigrant", it is racist and insulting.

I suppose you are not a "knee Jerk Liberal", another term I see you throw around in an attempt to incite and insult.

If you want to have a civil, intelligent, informed conversation, then do so. But I don't see you doing this right now. And no, it is not because you disagree with me, it is because of the way you throw racist terms around as if you had every right. Your privilege, and so much more, is showing.