Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Martina]

The thing is that most of the time, I imagine, the parties involved just wouldn't care. So why have a rule? And if, as in Word's case, you are confronted with THE relationship, then most bets are off.

I see no point in a rule. If the question is would I be hurt, probably not. If I were, should it make a difference to the new couple? Probably not. Why should my old pain discourage a potentially good relationship from forming?

I saw mention of something called a femme code. After nearly 30 years of being a femme, I learn there is a code. Who knew? I assume it means don't flirt with a friend's ex -- in this context.

The idea is offensive to me in some ways. The assumption is that femmes need a code, that without it we'd be poaching each other's partners or ex's, that there is a real risk of that kind of behavior without creating norms we have to enforce with our disapproval.

I have never run with large groups of butches and femmes, but I have known many over the years. And I would not characterize femmes this way.

[princessbelle]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the fact that when you are thinking about dating someone, you don't know them all that well. At least on an intimate level.

For instance...i could say i would have dated Bully no matter what, 'cause we are a perfect match. Did i know that at the beginning? Nope. I had no clue. As a matter of fact we were/are complete opposites.

So, it's like well if Bully had dated one of my closest friends i would have never even got to the point of really being close enough to her to find out she was perfect for me. Maybe a sad fact, but in my view it would have had to be that way. Also as someone else pointed out, if you are tight with a femme friend, you would most likely know all the diss about the ex and why they broke up anyway and doubtful they would be attractive to begin with.

I remember in high school my bbf was dating a dude named David. I had a crush and honestly only because his parents owned a Duncan Donuts and it was cool. His family was very wealthy and he always had the coolest tennis shoes. They were always bright orange. Oh how i digress. Anyway, she called me one day and said...you like David i don't. You can have him. He went along with that LOL. Only lasted a couple of weeks. It felt awkward. Even though Terry had said it was ok, it didn't feel ok. So i waved goodbye to the tennis shoes with money.

Of course all situations are different and unique.

It really is personal perception and personal opinions of specific situations for sure.

Again, really interesting thread and i've enjoyed reading everyone's pov.

[Martina]

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

[Angeltoes]

Originally Posted by Martina

Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Are you saying it's weird to not date other femmes and to prefer butches? Not saying I don't find femmes to be *beautiful* but it saddens me to be boxed into the weird category once again because I prefer dating the more masculine end of the spectrum. Cues Radiohead *I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo*....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Oh, *I* date all over the queer gender spectrum.




I'm far from hetero so I'm going to disagree with your perception.

It's a buzzkill (for the relationship) if a trusted member of my chosen inner circle dates or makes a move on someone I was in love with or owned.

It's boundary crossing for "me" I don't expect for anyone else but the people I'm allowing in my life to respect these boundaries. It's going to be a well known fact I have these expectations because like with any other relationship my chosen circle will know because in developing the friendship it will be talked about. Friendships are relationships.

I feel it's an individual choice on how one values relationships over nookie.

[aishah]

Originally Posted by Martina

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

YES THIS. for me, talking to a friend (or an ex), regardless of how they identify, when there's a potential situation where they might be dating my ex or i might be dating theirs - that's being a nice human being. i'd do that with anyone. i'm not really sure i understand the femme code of loyalty stuff. but i date femmes, too.

i am not sure how being open to dating a friend's ex is tantamount to throwing away a friendship - it seems like that's the basic assumption of many posts on this thread. i have many friendships where that's absolutely not the case (and many of those friendships are with femmes). obviously if there was someone i cared about - like, say, snow or midnight or someone else here, or a friend i have offline, or even an acquaintance - i would ask them first. if they considered it crossing a boundary or felt really strongly about it i most likely wouldn't date their ex - it's not worth it to me. especially if they were a "i'd call you at 4am in a crisis" friend (like the friend who set me up with her ex, who definitely is a close friend). but for me it is not an automatic assumption.

[Angeltoes]

I would choose the heart of my established friend over the possibility of having something new with a stranger. Personally, I would be hurt if a friend just disregarded my feelings that way. If you're friends you should at least be able to talk about it beforehand and find out if it's an issue.

[Soft*Silver]

I have dated exes of friends. I have asked my friends first, if that was ok. Protocol. And courtesy.

the problem I see in the case Anya gave us, was the nastiness of those two flirting in front of her friend. Mean People! It was low and spiteful of them to put on a display that they knew would make Anya's friend uncomfortable. If I did date someone's ex, I would be discrete about affection in front of them until I knew everyone involved was ok with it.

I have had new girlfriends of MY exes parade in front of me. But then, I did that to someone once too, for which i am ashamed now of my past action. We learn through our mistakes or we stay bitches. I learned...

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Miss_Tia

I have dated exes of friends. I have asked my friends first, if that was ok. Protocol. And courtesy.

the problem I see in the case Anya gave us, was the nastiness of those two flirting in front of her friend. Mean People! It was low and spiteful of them to put on a display that they knew would make Anya's friend uncomfortable. If I did date someone's ex, I would be discrete about affection in front of them until I knew everyone involved was ok with it.

I have had new girlfriends of MY exes parade in front of me. But then, I did that to someone once too, for which i am ashamed now of my past action. We learn through our mistakes or we stay bitches. I learned...

Miss Tia, I appreciate that you read and "got it" exactly as written!

Just simple human kindness. Femme to femme kindness.

Dating the ex of a close, sister-heart femme would not even be in my own personal universe of clear boundaries but neither would hurting a non-close acquaintance by flirting in front a recently dumped or in pain femme.

That is just me.

I get that many of you have a different belief or value system.

We certainly do not always agree on the Planet and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is our right.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Miss Tia, I appreciate that you read and "got it" exactly as written!

Just simple human kindness. Femme to femme kindness.

Dating the ex of a close, sister-heart femme would not even be in my own personal universe of clear boundaries but neither would hurting a non-close acquaintance by flirting in front a recently dumped or in pain femme.

That is just me.

I get that many of you have a different belief or value system.

We certainly do not always agree on the Planet and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is our right.

Anya, I think it's great that you shared this and started a discussion about it. But I feel like you put these questions out there, asked for everyone's opinions, and then essentially snubbed your nose at anyone who has a different take on the situation. Your disclaimer that you understand that many of "us" have a different belief or value system sounds judgmental to me.

Your original post included these questions: "What do you feel about this? Is it OK because the couple were broken up? Is there a respectable amount of time that should pass before you, as a femme, flirt with or date a friend's ex in front of another femme sister-even if not you are not close friends? Does it matter? Is it different online vs. real life? Your thoughts? "

I think all of those questions are worthy of asking, but then your responses to those that didn't answer as you would, just seem... judgmental. I don't know any other way of saying it. What was the point of asking the questions? You thanked Tia for "getting it exactly as written." What is it that you think the rest of us didn't "get?"

[always2late]

I don't think that I could ever date a good friend's ex...and I certainly wouldn't flirt with them in front of my friend. I think that for me, personally, it is a matter of respect for my friend's feelings. But I also think it depends on the friend as well...and their feelings for their ex. For example, in my younger years, I hung around with a group of friends and we all had what were basically lust-driven, short-lived dating relationships. In our circle, several people dated each other's exes and it never caused any conflict within the group...because there were no truly deep feelings involved.

[*Anya*]

Wow Queen of Smirks!

I snubbed my nose at no one and clearly said we all have our own opinions and and as usual, many of us disagree.

I DO get that many if you have a different value or belief system. In what universe is that not OK?

Rhetorical question because I don't know if you play devils advocate or what but you do tend to frequently poke at an opinion that you do not agree with.

That feels real judgmental to me!!

In the same way that you are entitled to your opinion:

I am also entitled to mine!!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by LaneyDoll

As typical for me, I am going against the grain...

Riley and I met because of a mutual friend. They were dating; she and I were friends. He and I barely spoke b/c we do not live in the same city/state-actually none of us did. Their relationship ended and she moved on to a new relationship. He and I became better friends and eventually ended up together.

I am not saying it is right or wrong. But, love happens. And I believe that the further we are from the mainstream, the harder it is for us to find someone. If those in my local community had an absolute hands-off rule regarding an ex, we would all be single. It is unreal how hard it is to find a partner who is gay AND into D/s. One or the other is not easy but add the two and you really increase the difficulty.

We have yet to run into his ex. She is no longer friends with her, by her choice, and I am not taking away from her right to feel betrayed.

I think that there are a huge amount of variables that come into play...

~How long were they together? One month is a lot different from one year.

~Who broke up with who and why? If things ended b/c they just simply did not mesh that is one thing.

~How long have they been apart? Again, one month is a lot different from one year.

~How close were the separate friendships? If Femme W and Femme X were childhood friends that is much different than Femme Y and Femme Z who do not have an extensive history.

I'll walk this road with you, Laney, as I have dated, lived with and loved a sister femme's ex.

I'm gonna name names too, because this person X and person U and person Y stuff makes me beserk and also because this isn't badmouthing/trashing/etc. In fact, it's the opposite.

Arwen and Ebon talked me into it. I was not okay with it at first. But THEY were okay with it and with one another. That made the difference for me. If there was anything romantic or unfinished business or bad blood between them, it would have been a no go. But both of them had great seats aboard the adult train and gave me the chance to ride it with them for a little while.

Did it feel awkward and weird at first? Yes. Am I likely to do that again? Most likely not, because those two people are so spectacular, I don't think any other situation like that would work with anyone else.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Thank you all for the great, hard, thoughtful conversation! It's been really great being a part of it mad props to all you great Femmes!

[Dance-with-me]

Many good points have been made. The main one that I agreed with is the issue of acquaintance vs good friend. A good friend's ex would be off limits for me without a considerable amount of discussion with that friend. But to exclude acquaintances' ex's would be unreasonably limiting in an already limited and therefor unavoidably incestuous community.

And I have to say honestly that in a situation of A and B break up, A starts dating C then gets hurt because her acquaintance D is flirting with her ex B at a party? Sorry, but to me, there's too many degrees of separation there in MY mind for A to justify getting upset that her ex and an acquaintance are flirting when A already has someone new.

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Is it different online vs. real life?

I guess I'm not understanding this question in the context of a situation that you described as being all "real life" and not online. Do you mean people who are acquaintances only online? Or people who are real-life acquaintances but who interact online? or do you mean online "dating" without having ever met?

[Talon]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding this, of course...But no.
There are just waaay tooo many fish in the sea, for me to ever need to do that. Whether the individual was a good friend or a not-so-good friend..that's an iron-clad "No-No". Sisters before Misters, always.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Talon

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding this, of course...But no.
There are just waaay tooo many fish in the sea, for me to ever need to do that. Whether the individual was a good friend or a not-so-good friend..that's an iron-clad "No-No". Sisters before Misters, always.

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

[Angeltoes]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

I just got a kick out of the 'Sisters before Misters' line. That's the thing though, if it's a sister the ex is off limits. If it's a casual acquaintance then probably not.

[Dance-with-me]

Yes, I like that line "sisters before misters" as well - and believe in it!! My friends mean the world to me, and I am unquestionably loyal to them -- but at the same time, even with the very best of my friends, THEY are responsible for managing and communicating their limits and boundaries, not me.

The main thing is that I am just not at all understanding why someone might feel the same about the ex of a casual acquaintances. I would never advocate deliberately pushing something in someone's face in order to be hurtful - even if she were an enemy, that says something about you and not them if you were to do that. But I honestly just don't get choosing to feel as if the ex of a casual acquaintance is off-limits just because your social circles happen to overlap, and taking on the responsibility to protect the feelings of an acquaintance who split with someone a couple of months before. Her feelings and boundaries are her responsibility to manage, not mine. I'm not even saying that her feelings of hurt at seeing her ex's interest in someone else would be at all invalid -- but they're still her responsibility, not mine, not even the ex's.

[Rockinonahigh]

Back when I was in the straight life I was headed to work one morning when a state trooper car pulled me over,lights flashing sirens blowing to wake the dead.I had no clue why cause I knew I was doing the speed limit and all my lights worked.Low and behold it was a casual friends bio hubby,the dam dick head hit me up for a sexy night out while his wife was staying with her sick mom.I told hime his wifes friendship was worth more to me that a night out with him or anyone and to buzz off.This was a long time before thay had mounted cams and mics in the patrole cars so I really didnt have any proof of this,but I did mention it to my uncle who was a federal marshal the next week this guy was asingned to desk duty untill further notice.I never did mention it to his wife but did find out a long time later he had been doing this for a while with others,it did cost him his badge and job eventualy.
I have a hard and fast rule about dateing my friends exes, even if its someones I casualy know cause I dont want any crap from breakups falling on me or probs with a friendship over said break up.It all comes from respect for myself and my friends.