Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Well this seems like shit stirring to me. And very unhealthy behavior.

[Dude]

then there's this pesky thing called justified anger
which to me is not about drama at all but real life

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

To whom, exactly, does this refer?

[Semantics]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Why is it that people have to come in and try and parent other adults?

That's not really offering healthy discourse. It's silencing.

Originally Posted by Kobi

With all due respect,

Originally Posted by Kobi

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

I saw very little drama and rage and plenty of thoughtful discussion.

The drama I saw was someone (you) coming in and starting off a lecturing post with "with all due respect" and then accusing the rest of us (I assume that's what you meant by ya'll) of being dramatic and full of rage.

What's also strange is that you directed it at a member who is neither dramatic or full of rage, so it looks like you're just annoyed in general and may have been looking for an opportunity to get it off your mind.

I'm sure you can consider your opinion noted.

[Novelafemme]

Casey's actions after the fact can't be ignored. Someone dumped her body like trash. Someone drove around with her dead body in Casey's car. Someone put duct tape on her mouth. If it was truly an accident, she wouldn't have been out partying like nothing was wrong.

If your kid goes missing for 30 minutes and you don't report it you're a bad parent. 30 days and you go partying and never report it, you most likely killed her - sometimes written law sucks and common sense must take over.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Kobi,

I was truly trying to be considerate when i responded to you and stick to the thread's OP.

However, you are wrong. We don't have to agree on anything.

Our United States Judicial System must adhere to strict guidelines especially in capital murdur cases. Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found innocent. Many times due to information being withheld from jurors over mistakes on obtaining evidence and so forth, jurors have caused many people to be sent to jail who were innocent as well as some that are free that are guilty. That, is a fact.

I believe this woman killed her child. I have that right to believe that. It is not drama provoking at all. It is MY opinion. There are lots of opinions here.

What is unhealthy is belittling MY opinion, accusing ME of unhealthy discourse and saying "ya'll" have a thing for anger and drama.

Pretty sure we were doing fine before you told "us" to take a deep breath and have calmer emotions. Pretty sure i don't need someone else to tell me how i feel. Pretty sure my emotions were and are in check.

I'm just upset at what happened today. If you don't agree with what i say, so be it. At this point, I truly don't give a flying fuck.

As far as what you just said trying to rip me a new one?

I did not deserve that.

VERY UNCOOL.

I'm done with this little blah blah...

On with the topic....

[Dude]

a bumper sticker thought

If you're not outraged you're not paying attention.

[BullDog]

I do agree that our legal system- like all of our social institutions and culture- is racist. I have no doubt in mind that the way this case was discussed in the media would have been far different if the mother was a woman of color. The outcome of the case could have very well been different as well.

I do feel the jury was in a tough spot. The standard of Reasonable Doubt does need to be high to protect the innocent. People of color are also the most likely to be falsely accused of crimes.

I remember watching the O.J. Simpson case. I followed it quite closely. I was absolutely convinced he killed his former wife. To this day I don't understand how anyone could kill the mother of his children. However I also remember thinking to myself if I had been on that jury I don't know if I could have voted to convict him even though I was absolutely convinced he did kill her. There were too many holes in the case, too much evidence not handled properly, etc. It sounds like in this case there may have been too much reasonable doubt to convict her of first degree murder, but I also agree there should have been other charges other than first degree murder that she could have been charged with. I don't know what caused this. Several factors no doubt. I don't understand why she wasn't convicted of child abuse or manslaughter.

The Standard of Reasonable Doubt does get abused. On the murder trial I was on the man accused of murder had a rich father and he had two very talented attorneys. Weeks were spent going over this man's whole life story and how bad it had been for him. I think there should be limits to how much of a person's life story gets brought into play. We all have to be responsible adults, especially if we are the parent or guardian of a child.

Much of what goes on in a courtroom is actually quite theatrical. The cases don't come to trial for many months or many years. It's not hard for a talented attorney to cast doubt on what someone says on the witness stand. There's lots of back and forth between the attorneys which the jury is instructed to ignore. You can be in the courtroom for ten minutes and then told to leave and have that same thing happen several times in one day. It's all very choppy. Things are thrown out that you are supposed to pretend you didn't hear. Members of the jury are "courted" through eye contact, friendly smiles, etc. As a juror who is trying to do your job you just want to get down to the relevant facts. It can be quite frustrating.

I do think our legal system is quite flawed, but I have served on a jury and would do so again if called. I also vote. I do what I can. There are people in this world who do not have the legal and political rights that we have in the United States. As a white person I certainly do have rights and privileges that people of color do not have. I am not sure what can be done about our legal system. I do agree it is quite flawed, but part me still does believe in a jury system of some kind.

I do mourn for the loss of this child and for all children who are killed, harmed or neglected in any way. I support those who are expressing your outrage and grief. I do understand.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

Casey's actions after the fact can't be ignored. Someone dumped her body like trash. Someone drove around with her dead body in Casey's car. Someone put duct tape on her mouth. If it was truly an accident, she wouldn't have been out partying like nothing was wrong.

If your kid goes missing for 30 minutes and you don't report it you're a bad parent. 30 days and you go partying and never report it, you most likely killed her - sometimes written law sucks and common sense must take over.

....even if it was an accident, and this body was dumped somewhere to maybe hide the fact that you are a negligent parent ....

Remember - Casey lied about having a job - she took it further to claim that this imaginary job gave her a promotion that would require her to work nights - just so she could go out and party. Cindy (her mother) expressed that she was getting a little tired of being used as a constant babysitter ... Casey didn't want to own up to her responsibility as a parent .... Casey had some decisions to make.

Originally Posted by Kobi

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

It doesn't take rocket science to do simple math. She may have been found not guilty, and for all intents and purposes, the jury says she is not a murderer. Why is it that most people in this country (and around the world) feel otherwise?

Yes, there are judgments, heated emotions, anger and disappointment in the way this case played out. Normally, I myself try not to let certain things get to me - and I don't consider myself a drama mama - but when it comes to baby and animal abuse - I go insane with anger - and admittingly, sometimes rage. But you know what? Expressing it is normal. Venting is normal. Sharing it is normal. What is unhealthy is not letting it out if it affects you in such a way. If you aren't affected by anything in the same manner as someone else, that's totally fine but I don't believe it necessary to tell someone to tone it down unless they are totally out of control and intentionally hurting someone else because of misdirected emotion. And I certainly don't think it's ok to tell someone how and what they should think, or how they should feel about it.

[girl_dee]

Hell I'm outraged and angry! It's very hard not to wish the same fate to the murderer, tenfold. I am not there yet. I may never get there. I want this woman to suffer.

Fuck the reverent manner in which we speak about this. We are respectful to each other and without being told to do so.

This bitch killed her beautiful innocent baby. NO one should get away with that no matter what !

[girl_dee]

The jury did not say she is not a murderer, they said it wasn't proven.

[always2late]

The fact is that "we" (the public) saw more evidence than the jury did. Things that may be judged inadmissible in court are still allowed in the public forum. It is based on those facts that I have formed the OPINION that Caylee's mother is guilty of her murder. And, as such, I am outraged that she is free.

I am sickened that a beautiful little girl is dead. I am saddened that a child never had the chance to live or reach her full potential, whatever that may have been. And it breaks my heart that in ten years when Caylee would have been 15, most people will have forgotten that she even existed at all. I believe her mother is the one responsible for removing her from existence. I think that the only logical response to what I perceive to be true IS outrage. But, of course, that is MY opinion.

[NJFemmie]

It's part of human nature to try and make sense of irrational actions. The bottom line truly is that a beautiful little girl is dead and her death is shrouded in mystery and foul play. As a mother, whether it was an accident or not, there is responsibility as a parent. I'm not saying that George may or may not have had anything to do with this .... that in itself is it's own ugly web of lies. But lying to the police, IMO, was not enough for Casey. Covering up an accidental death is also a crime.

Unfortunately, everything is and always has been speculation, and all I can say is Casey dodged a bullet - she showed more emotion when she was found not guilty than she did when she was accused of killing her daughter or during the whole time her daughter was "missing". Her attorney - just got lucky.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

The jury did not say she is not a murderer, they said it wasn't proven.

You are correct. I should have been more precise and said the jury acquitted her of murder.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

You are correct. I should have been more precise and said the jury acquitted her of murder.

I'm sorry, I was not correcting you, I just want to point out that even if every jury member felt she was guilty, they also felt they could not convict without more evidence.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

I'm sorry, I was not correcting you, I just want to point out that even if every jury member felt she was guilty, they also felt they could not convict without more evidence.

Ain't no thing I should have been more precise - I am sure there are jurors who do think she was guilty, but had to make their decision based on evidence (or rather, lack thereof).

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Ain't no thing I should have been more precise - I am sure there are jurors who do think she was guilty, but had to make their decision based on evidence (or rather, lack thereof).

Yup and that must be one hard thing to do, grrrrr.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Yup and that must be one hard thing to do, grrrrr.

.... agreed.

[Melissa]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I wonder why the prosecution did not add "Abuse of a Corpse" to her charges? That would at least carry a felony charge that she might have been convicted for.

I thought it was strange too. I think it is because there is no proof as to who actually transported and buried her out there.


Melissa

[Melissa]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

I'm sorry, I was not correcting you, I just want to point out that even if every jury member felt she was guilty, they also felt they could not convict without more evidence.

I think so too. Something or someone led to her death. But the who and the how were never proven. It could have been a premeditated murder or an accident and then a panicked response from the mother or grandparents, even. Someone did something and there are one or more guilty people, but no evidence to say who.

It seems the whole family had an issue with the truth, not just Casey. It was all very muddy. I watched some of the CNN coverage and most of the defense closing and all I could think was, God, I would not want to be on that jury because I could not see any other verdict but not guilty. And its not because she is not guilty, its because no evidence was found. She's a liar, she's messed up, and she seems to be disconnected from reality. she's probably responsible for the death of her child, but its all about the probably. And there are plenty of lying, messed up, disconnected from reality mothers who don't kill their children or even physically abuse them.

Melissa