What attracts you to Ftms ...... - Page 12

Gemme · 10-25-2012, 07:24 PM

Shit. DammitalltoHell.

Sorry about the derail again.

Martina, if you'd like to continue to debate with me, I'm okay with that through pms.

If not, then maybe the thread can get back on topic.

princessbelle · 10-25-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemme

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="yellowgreen"]

Okay. I can give you that. I see that. The literal versus figurative analogy. A lot of wires can get crossed when different sides are coming from difference perspectives and I totally get this.

BUT

My panties get into an absolute snarl when it feels like someone is saying 'you are wrong' instead of 'that isn't for me and this is why'. The 'daydreaming' comment feels dismissive to me, like someone's ideal isn't "real enough" for someone else who is not involved in their life at all and not affected by their life choices at all.

Why can't that role be someone's REAL world? Why must the weight of history rest on the shoulders of some girl or guy who just wants to make their partner fucking dinner and do it in an apron and maybe in heels and probably with some rouge on?

The daydreaming remark wasn't meant to be dismissive. It was meant to be what it is...daydreaming. If we are going to debate whether or not most of us could go back to the 1950s and live as we live today or actually, how it has been represented, actually live a better, more mannerly, more pleasant life or however anyone wants to spin it, i truly do challenge that.

It's the romanticizing and the thought that things were better for everyone back then, attitude that gets MY panties into an absolute snarl.

I don't think anyone here cares how anyone lives their lives or has a relationship. That is not what this discussion is about, as far as i see. What ruffles some of us is the notion that "then" was better. It wasn't. At least it wasn't for women, minorities and especially not better for gays.

This has nothing to do with whether someone chooses to work or not, or wear an apron or whatever. FAR from it. It is about logistics, where we are now and where we came from and where MANY of us never want to go back to.

princessbelle · 10-25-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemme

Shit. DammitalltoHell.

Sorry about the derail again.

Martina, if you'd like to continue to debate with me, I'm okay with that through pms.

If not, then maybe the thread can get back on topic.

Gemme dang!!!!

You can't call a bunch of us out on stuff then say "take it to PMs".

Maybe this needs it's own discussion thread? I don't know.

I guess it is what it is. People see things differently, but i will stand by my belief that the 50s sucked for most of us.

And leave it at that.

Sorry for the derail as well.

Gemme · 10-25-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Gemme dang!!!!

You can't call a bunch of us out on stuff then say "take it to PMs".

Maybe this needs it's own discussion thread? I don't know.

I guess it is what it is. People see things differently, but i will stand by my belief that the 50s sucked for most of us.

And leave it at that.

Sorry for the derail as well.

PMing you now!

BullDog · 10-25-2012, 07:36 PM

Gemme, no one has told you how to have a relationship.

No one.

It is very dangerous to white wash history. We are about to have a Presidential election where our rights could take us back to the 1950s and earlier. I am never going to ignore any of that. I didn't take issue with anyone's relationship. What I have issue with is white washing history.

And if people want to make male the superior in their relationship they can, but if people are going to tie that to some wonderful mystical past when things were so much better I will challenge that. And I will continue to challenge male being superior as the default in society.

Gemme · 10-25-2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Gemme, no one has told you how to have a relationship.

No one.

It is very dangerous to white wash history. We are about to have a Presidential election where our rights could take us back to the 1950s and earlier. I am never going to ignore any of that. I didn't take issue with anyone's relationship. What I have issue with is white washing history.

And if people want to make male the superior in their relationship they can, but if people are going to tie that to some wonderful mystical past when things were so much better I will challenge that. And I will continue to challenge male being superior as the default in society.

PMing you as well.

BullDog · 10-25-2012, 07:45 PM

Gemme you can PM me anytime but you can't just come in here and say a bunch of stuff and then tell us to take it to private.

Gemme · 10-25-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Gemme you can PM me anytime but you can't just come in here and say a bunch of stuff and then tell us to take it to private.

I just want to minimize my role in derailing the thread any further, Bully. I honestly don't think I can say things any differently. It seems to be a case of headbutting and that's frustrating for everyone.

Medusa · 10-25-2012, 08:04 PM

Here's what needs to happen, folks:

1. This thread appears to have meandered into a completely different area than "What attracts you to FtMs...". While threads will do that, I think that the discussion being had here is valuable enough to warrant it's own thread so that folks can continue teasing this apart without derailing the folks who would like to engage in more light-hearted banter.

2. This discussion feels very similar to me as the one did when the whole "Gor-Daddy" thing came up. Much like that conversation, I want to remind folks that you do not get to police other people's kink. You don't get to label what someone else finds sexy as "wrong". It may indeed *be* wrong but this is where we have to accept that desire is a really convoluted thing and that its intersections are often going to bump up against things that are made of -isms.

3. I think it is super valuable to dismantle desire for ourselves. If you want to tease apart why something doesn't work for you, then do that with language that is thoughtful and sincere. Refrain from jabs that make you look like an asshole because the conversation cannot happen if people keep trying to "win" rather than listen.

4. The very nature of the Butch/Femme dynamic is seen as sexist, racist, and homophobic by many folks. Think back to discussions in your Feminism circles where you may have heard those shitty diatribes about how Butches "just want to be men" or how Femmes "are really straight women looking to get their pussy licked". Does it feel at all familiar to folks that we are now turning inward on other dynamics that feel "wrong" to us but that other people have found shelter in?
I'm not saying that there aren't dynamics out there that are really fucked up. There are. There are dynamics out there that deserve a ton of discussion. My point is that I would like to see that discussion happen thoughtfully without all the other bullshit. (you know, that bullshit where we waggle our fingers at someone else's way of doing their desire).

5. As far as individual desire goes, I'm a huge fan of the motto "If you aren't fucking me, paying my bills, or living in my house, you don't get to have an opinion on what I do."

6. With the above being said, if you are up on a Feminist website spouting some bullshit about Gor-Daddies and how awesome it is when Femmes turn into Stepford Pussies or Butches are only Butch when they are climbing the "Machismo Dick Tower", expect to have that shit dragged out into the daylight and picked at.

The point of all this is y'all need to treat each other better.
Make your point as if the person you are talking to is across the table from you at the Reunion.

And in the immortal words of Ozzy, "I love you all but you're all fucking mad."

Thanks,
Angie

DMW · 10-25-2012, 08:06 PM

I just love these two. I hope that the honeymooners are not considered x-rated or something.. Also, people can choose whether or not they wanna watch the show. Just a link. Heck Alice is awesome. Crazy Ralph says..."Baby, you're the greatest" and also, to the moon Alice...when he doesn't understand her.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frbp2O6I2go"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 1/3 - YouTube[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8Elpu18uU"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 2/3 - YouTube[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRG62QFGcKM"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 3/3 - YouTube[/nomedia]

This is when Alice goes and gets a job and Ralph can't deal with her not at home. He has no idea how much work it is for her to do all that she does.
It is great. I think the women that have known me...eh...would probably say...i can be a little too much like Ralph sometimes.
Probably sometimes too much. Hell, maybe i am giving myself too much credit. Would have to ask the women that have lived with me really to get a real idea. Would be nice to hear them critique this post ....from a distance...and in bits.
Damn he is like a child...i don't think i was that bad????

Nomad · 10-25-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemme

Yanno, every few years this argument pops up. It's a case of what floats someone's boat, not making social commentaries.

The 50s era was not exactly beneficial to the progress of women's rights. It kinda sucked at it in a big way. But if someone wants to dress in an apron and take care of their man/guy/butch/wife/etc in ways that simulate that time, then what beeswax is it to anyone else HOW they do it as long as it's not abusive? Really? C'mon now.

That's like you (general you) saying "I like to beat my honey's ass black and blue before church every Sunday" and getting shit on for saying it. It's their thing and their kink, if you will. Let's see someone tell someone else how to do their kink and see what kind of fiasco we have. No one is pushing it on anyone else. Those in favor of this lifestyle are expressing their love for it.

Someone please explain the problem with that to me. They aren't demanding women's rights be taken back to that time; they are saying 'this is how I am and what I like'. Period.

thank you.

my politics and my personal life preferences/kinks do not necessarily reflect one another. i'm what happens when you mix the DNA of an intellectual, a housewife and a porn star to create a whole new person. anyone who doesn't like my love of submission and sexual engagement via housework, cooking, baking, grocery shopping, budgeting, errand running, managing a home and spreading my legs for my One Person can suck my dick. (she said in a very genteel fashion)

**EDIT**

my apologies for not reading the moderation that Medusa posted or recognizing that i was further derailing the thread. that said, my post stands undeleted because i'm selfish that way.

girl_dee · 10-25-2012, 08:14 PM

just a quick thought.

i choose to live a lifestyle that may be considered similar to the household set up of the 50's. The difference is i am not a barefoot and pregnant, suppressed, brainwashed woman who is under the thumb and complete control of a man. It saddens me to think anyone would want this type of woman. i'm someone who embraces taking care of the home including the chores and dinner, allowed to have my own life and my own work. My feelings and thoughts, wants, needs, woes are all important. i work two days a week outside the home. My work here is appreciated and i am well taken care of. Our home is a source of pride for me, as it was for many women of the 50's. Having a nice dinner for everyone at the end of the day brings me joy. i've never been happier in my life and i hope we live this way forever. i can't call it a kink/fetish. It's just how we live. i love being a housewife, apron and all!

girl_dee · 10-25-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMW

I just love these two. I hope that the honeymooners are not considered x-rated or something.. Also, people can choose whether or not they wanna watch the show. Just a link. Heck Alice is awesome. Crazy Ralph says..."Baby, you're the greatest" and also, to the moon Alice...when he doesn't understand her.
The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 1/3 - YouTube

The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 2/3 - YouTube

The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 3/3 - YouTube

This is when Alice goes and gets a job and Ralph can't deal with her not at home. He has no idea how much work it is for her to do all that she does.
It is great. I think the women that have known me...eh...would probably say...i can be a little too much like Ralph sometimes.
Probably sometimes too much. Hell, maybe i am giving myself too much credit. Would have to ask the women that have lived with me really to get a real idea. Would be nice to hear them critique this post ....from a distance...and in bits.

You do realize that the *to the moon* was a physical threat to punch her lights out, not when he didn't understand her but when he didn't agree with her. ? That it was perfectly acceptable for a man to do that to a woman back then?

Just wondering.

DMW · 10-25-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

You do realize that the *to the moon* was a physical threat to punch her lights out, not when he didn't understand her but when he didn't agree with her. ? That it was perfectly acceptable for a man to do that to a woman back then?

Just wondering.

Times have changed. Just my opinion ....I actually think that life now demands an awful lot(i think more demand than that of the past) from women...especially mothers with jobs and a home to take care of. (Maybe i feel this way because i have not experienced any other time or way of life.) I believe that there should be a balance of work within a home from a family.
Never ok to hit a woman in my opinion. I didn't realize that it was ever ok or perfectly acceptable to hit a woman back then. I don't think i ever will realize that. I disagree with it so much that it would not matter what context or time period.

And as far as the Honeymooners goes...if it has to be deleted or taken out from this forum..if the show offends anyone...then i would understand. I wouldn't take it personally. I just like the show.

Nomad · 10-25-2012, 08:39 PM

i'm attracted to FtMs in part because i love people who live from a place of extreme authenticity. as a cis-gendered person i've not ever had to demand space for myself. i can only imagine (and i expect i aprobably couldnt come close to imagining even half) what it might be take to demand that kind of room in the world or what it would feel like to have the stones to do it. that kind of honesty bunches my knickers.

i feel the compelled to write the following disclaimer so i dont get bent over for not acknowledging that non-transgendered folks also do exactly what i've just described. please accept this paragraph as my acknowledgement of that fact now. lots of people do that who are not transgendered have to create space for themselves in this narrow world. many (if not most) of the people on this website do that very thing every day. in my post i am merely responding to the topic (what attracts you to FtMs) in a personal and honest way. in addition, this is only PART of what attracts me to FtMs. the rest of what attracts me to them (or to anyone, for that matter) is often a mystery to me. it just is what it is. [/I]

Kent · 10-26-2012, 02:03 AM

Bumping to get us back on this trail..

Darbonaire · 10-26-2012, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

Here's what needs to happen, folks:

1. This thread appears to have meandered into a completely different area than "What attracts you to FtMs...". While threads will do that, I think that the discussion being had here is valuable enough to warrant it's own thread so that folks can continue teasing this apart without derailing the folks who would like to engage in more light-hearted banter.

2. This discussion feels very similar to me as the one did when the whole "Gor-Daddy" thing came up. Much like that conversation, I want to remind folks that you do not get to police other people's kink. You don't get to label what someone else finds sexy as "wrong". It may indeed *be* wrong but this is where we have to accept that desire is a really convoluted thing and that its intersections are often going to bump up against things that are made of -isms.

3. I think it is super valuable to dismantle desire for ourselves. If you want to tease apart why something doesn't work for you, then do that with language that is thoughtful and sincere. Refrain from jabs that make you look like an asshole because the conversation cannot happen if people keep trying to "win" rather than listen.

4. The very nature of the Butch/Femme dynamic is seen as sexist, racist, and homophobic by many folks. Think back to discussions in your Feminism circles where you may have heard those shitty diatribes about how Butches "just want to be men" or how Femmes "are really straight women looking to get their pussy licked". Does it feel at all familiar to folks that we are now turning inward on other dynamics that feel "wrong" to us but that other people have found shelter in?
I'm not saying that there aren't dynamics out there that are really fucked up. There are. There are dynamics out there that deserve a ton of discussion. My point is that I would like to see that discussion happen thoughtfully without all the other bullshit. (you know, that bullshit where we waggle our fingers at someone else's way of doing their desire).

5. As far as individual desire goes, I'm a huge fan of the motto "If you aren't fucking me, paying my bills, or living in my house, you don't get to have an opinion on what I do."

6. With the above being said, if you are up on a Feminist website spouting some bullshit about Gor-Daddies and how awesome it is when Femmes turn into Stepford Pussies or Butches are only Butch when they are climbing the "Machismo Dick Tower", expect to have that shit dragged out into the daylight and picked at.

The point of all this is y'all need to treat each other better.
Make your point as if the person you are talking to is across the table from you at the Reunion.

And in the immortal words of Ozzy, "I love you all but you're all fucking mad."

Thanks,
Angie

Thank you !

Darbonaire · 10-26-2012, 05:37 AM

I'd like to hear again.....why is it you femmes love/ are attracted to us ?????.......

<smile>....

Jonathan

femmsational · 10-26-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by femmsational

What I love about most FTM's is the strength that seems to accrue during the transition. It's a strong person that can spit in the eye of "normal" to become their normal. Makes me all squishy inside.

disclaimer...please note I am posting in a thread about FTM's in the Trans Zone. I do realize that the above could apply to pretty much.....everybody.

Martina · 10-26-2012, 10:10 AM

I would like to repeat that I said, and maintain, that I do not care what people do in their own homes and relationships. I do not think that people's individual choices are wrong. I do think that holding up a patriarchal family model as an example of how people ought to live is beyond wrong. Unbelievably wrong. And it's a fight long since over in the culture at large. If membership in my subculture requires that I give up the gains made for civil rights in the larger culture, then . . . I vote for human rights.

That said, I do not think that anyone is living in a way that deprives them of their human rights. But if someone -- like the couple in the past -- were to endorse that again, recommend it, hold it up as an example, then to not call it out is wrong. I repeat the word -- "wrong."

10-25-2012, 07:24 PM	#221
Gemme Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Queer Stone Femme Girl of the Unicorn Variety Preferred Pronoun?: She, as in 'She's a GEM' Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The roads are narrow here Posts: 36,589 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 182,212 Thanked 108,769 Times in 25,661 Posts Rep Power: 21474887	Shit. DammitalltoHell. Sorry about the derail again. Martina, if you'd like to continue to debate with me, I'm okay with that through pms. If not, then maybe the thread can get back on topic. __________________ Gemme's Journal I'm misunderestimated.

10-25-2012, 07:36 PM	#225
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Gemme, no one has told you how to have a relationship. No one. It is very dangerous to white wash history. We are about to have a Presidential election where our rights could take us back to the 1950s and earlier. I am never going to ignore any of that. I didn't take issue with anyone's relationship. What I have issue with is white washing history. And if people want to make male the superior in their relationship they can, but if people are going to tie that to some wonderful mystical past when things were so much better I will challenge that. And I will continue to challenge male being superior as the default in society. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

10-25-2012, 07:45 PM	#227
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Gemme you can PM me anytime but you can't just come in here and say a bunch of stuff and then tell us to take it to private. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

10-25-2012, 08:04 PM	#229
Medusa Mentally Delicious How Do You Identify?: Queer High Femme, thank you very much Preferred Pronoun?: Mme. Relationship Status: Married to JD. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,446 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,995 Thanked 42,872 Times in 7,835 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	Moderating Here's what needs to happen, folks: 1. This thread appears to have meandered into a completely different area than "What attracts you to FtMs...". While threads will do that, I think that the discussion being had here is valuable enough to warrant it's own thread so that folks can continue teasing this apart without derailing the folks who would like to engage in more light-hearted banter. 2. This discussion feels very similar to me as the one did when the whole "Gor-Daddy" thing came up. Much like that conversation, I want to remind folks that you do not get to police other people's kink. You don't get to label what someone else finds sexy as "wrong". It may indeed be wrong but this is where we have to accept that desire is a really convoluted thing and that its intersections are often going to bump up against things that are made of -isms. 3. I think it is super valuable to dismantle desire for ourselves. If you want to tease apart why something doesn't work for you, then do that with language that is thoughtful and sincere. Refrain from jabs that make you look like an asshole because the conversation cannot happen if people keep trying to "win" rather than listen. 4. The very nature of the Butch/Femme dynamic is seen as sexist, racist, and homophobic by many folks. Think back to discussions in your Feminism circles where you may have heard those shitty diatribes about how Butches "just want to be men" or how Femmes "are really straight women looking to get their pussy licked". Does it feel at all familiar to folks that we are now turning inward on other dynamics that feel "wrong" to us but that other people have found shelter in? I'm not saying that there aren't dynamics out there that are really fucked up. There are. There are dynamics out there that deserve a ton of discussion. My point is that I would like to see that discussion happen thoughtfully without all the other bullshit. (you know, that bullshit where we waggle our fingers at someone else's way of doing their desire). 5. As far as individual desire goes, I'm a huge fan of the motto "If you aren't fucking me, paying my bills, or living in my house, you don't get to have an opinion on what I do." 6. With the above being said, if you are up on a Feminist website spouting some bullshit about Gor-Daddies and how awesome it is when Femmes turn into Stepford Pussies or Butches are only Butch when they are climbing the "Machismo Dick Tower", expect to have that shit dragged out into the daylight and picked at. The point of all this is y'all need to treat each other better. Make your point as if the person you are talking to is across the table from you at the Reunion. And in the immortal words of Ozzy, "I love you all but you're all fucking mad." Thanks, Angie __________________ . . . Buy ButchFemmePlanet Merch Here: https://teespring.com/stores/butchfemmeplanetcom-merch

10-25-2012, 08:06 PM	#230
DMW Member How Do You Identify?: FTM/Male (Will 14) Relationship Status: Caught An Angel and she doesn't lie! Join Date: May 2012 Location: @ Posts: 784 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,256 Thanked 1,861 Times in 614 Posts Rep Power: 21474849	I just love these two. I hope that the honeymooners are not considered x-rated or something.. Also, people can choose whether or not they wanna watch the show. Just a link. Heck Alice is awesome. Crazy Ralph says..."Baby, you're the greatest" and also, to the moon Alice...when he doesn't understand her. [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frbp2O6I2go"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 1/3 - YouTube[/nomedia] [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8Elpu18uU"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 2/3 - YouTube[/nomedia] [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRG62QFGcKM"]The Honeymooners "A womans work is never done" - Part 3/3 - YouTube[/nomedia] This is when Alice goes and gets a job and Ralph can't deal with her not at home. He has no idea how much work it is for her to do all that she does. It is great. I think the women that have known me...eh...would probably say...i can be a little too much like Ralph sometimes. Probably sometimes too much. Hell, maybe i am giving myself too much credit. Would have to ask the women that have lived with me really to get a real idea. Would be nice to hear them critique this post ....from a distance...and in bits. Damn he is like a child...i don't think i was that bad???? Last edited by DMW; 10-25-2012 at 08:23 PM.

10-25-2012, 08:14 PM	#232
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,958 Times in 13,923 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	just a quick thought. i choose to live a lifestyle that may be considered similar to the household set up of the 50's. The difference is i am not a barefoot and pregnant, suppressed, brainwashed woman who is under the thumb and complete control of a man. It saddens me to think anyone would want this type of woman. i'm someone who embraces taking care of the home including the chores and dinner, allowed to have my own life and my own work. My feelings and thoughts, wants, needs, woes are all important. i work two days a week outside the home. My work here is appreciated and i am well taken care of. Our home is a source of pride for me, as it was for many women of the 50's. Having a nice dinner for everyone at the end of the day brings me joy. i've never been happier in my life and i hope we live this way forever. i can't call it a kink/fetish. It's just how we live. i love being a housewife, apron and all!

10-25-2012, 08:39 PM	#235
Nomad Timed Out How Do You Identify?: stone femme Daddy's girl Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: disinterested Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: in my head Posts: 991 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,848 Thanked 3,745 Times in 734 Posts Rep Power: 0	back on track i'm attracted to FtMs *in part* because i love people who live from a place of extreme authenticity. as a cis-gendered person i've not ever had to demand space for myself. i can only imagine (and i expect i aprobably couldnt come close to imagining even half) what it might be take to demand that kind of room in the world or what it would feel like to have the stones to do it. that kind of honesty bunches my knickers. i feel the compelled to write the following disclaimer so i dont get bent over for not acknowledging that non-transgendered folks also do exactly what i've just described. please accept this paragraph as my acknowledgement of that fact now. lots of people do that who are not transgendered have to create space for themselves in this narrow world. many (if not most) of the people on this website do that very thing every day. in my post i am merely responding to the topic (what attracts you to FtMs) in a personal and honest way. in addition, this is only PART of what attracts me to FtMs. the rest of what attracts me to them (or to anyone, for that matter) is often a mystery to me. it just is what it is. [/I]

10-26-2012, 02:03 AM	#236
Kent Member How Do You Identify?: Male Relationship Status: Single Tournaments Won: 2 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: TX Posts: 1,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,564 Thanked 2,058 Times in 720 Posts Rep Power: 19241325	What attracts you to FtMs??? Bumping to get us back on this trail.. __________________ Kent

10-26-2012, 05:37 AM	#238
Darbonaire Timed Out How Do You Identify?: MALE Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Working on myself, thank you Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 186 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 343 Thanked 552 Times in 145 Posts Rep Power: 0	Clearing my throat.... I'd like to hear again.....why is it you femmes love/ are attracted to us ?????....... <smile>.... Jonathan

10-26-2012, 10:10 AM	#240
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,367 Times in 4,171 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I would like to repeat that I said, and maintain, that I do not care what people do in their own homes and relationships. I do not think that people's individual choices are wrong. I do think that holding up a patriarchal family model as an example of how people ought to live is beyond wrong. Unbelievably wrong. And it's a fight long since over in the culture at large. If membership in my subculture requires that I give up the gains made for civil rights in the larger culture, then . . . I vote for human rights. That said, I do not think that anyone is living in a way that deprives them of their human rights. But if someone -- like the couple in the past -- were to endorse that again, recommend it, hold it up as an example, then to not call it out is wrong. I repeat the word -- "wrong."