animal rescuers - resources - support

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

Punkin fangs me all of the time. He will take his mouth and rub his teeth up against my hand while I am petting him. I believe it is the cats way of marking you with their scent and saying "You are mine and you belong to me!!!"

I've never had one of the tamer cats fang me...I think it might be something more common to ferals. Yes it is ownership, that's a given & I've given in --I don't mind the fangs but I wished she'd hold down the claws a bit. ouch, ouch..

[violaine]

could either of you - kimbo or lisa- please share how you are able to do the best work for the ferals coming to your house, and/or the colony, please? thank you. when do you put out a HAH/crate? how do you feel about separating the mom if you must, from the babies? do you try to neut the males first - and does that help reduce the chance of other feral males entering into the colony? who helps you do the work- if anyone- and where do you turn for placement of adult / teen ferals?

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by violaine

could either of you - kimbo or lisa- please share how you are able to do the best work for the ferals coming to your house, and/or the colony, please? thank you. when do you put out a HAH/crate? how do you feel about separating the mom if you must, from the babies? do you try to neut the males first - and does that help reduce the chance of other feral males entering into the colony? who helps you do the work- if anyone- and where do you turn for placement of adult / teen ferals?

My best work currently is providing decent shelter, food, love and next on my list is medical. I have people that will help me TNR and get them to a vet but the fee is quite high. If I do it myself I belive it is 55.00 per cat.
As far as seperating the baby kitten from the mother I would have to do that if the mother or kitten had feline AIDS or leukemia . I would try to spay the females before the males. Because other feral males are able to enter the colony. As well as males from the same family.
There is no one helping me with the work. There is a local agency that offered me food and offered a day a clinic spayed and nutered the cats in some location I was unfamiliar with.
No shelters are accepting kittens at this time. With the economy not as many adoptions are taking place.
I love the ferals. They each have a unique personality and they would be missed.
My goal is to socialize them before I would adopt them or seek to adopt them out. And I don't want them to sit in a shelter in a cage waiting for a home.
Some ferals I believe from what I have seen and experienced are just not sociable with humans or adoptable.

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by violaine

could either of you - kimbo or lisa- please share how you are able to do the best work for the ferals coming to your house, and/or the colony, please? thank you. when do you put out a HAH/crate? how do you feel about separating the mom if you must, from the babies? do you try to neut the males first - and does that help reduce the chance of other feral males entering into the colony? who helps you do the work- if anyone- and where do you turn for placement of adult / teen ferals?

I'll be back in tonight to address your question. I'm sure it will be a long post.

[Andrew, Jr.]

When I rock Dino, he loves to suck the webbing between my thumb and first finger. I have never had a dog do that before. I was one proud papa that night.

Andrew

[Kimbo]

As promised:

Situations vary on how I go about trapping--in a colony/hoarding case we take out as many traps as we can and get as many at once as we can care for. In my neighborhood it's single cats--I have 2 traps, one big Havaheart and one small squirrel trap that I use for trapping kittens.

In hoarder cases or colony cases we go in and feed for a week or two before hand. At one of the housing projects here that was being torn down we drove in and set up food/water stations and then made a strict point of driving the same car every night at the same time to feed them. 2 days before we are going to trap we only take out water and no food, on the third day we go in and set traps all around the feeding stations. In the traps we always put some mackerel or tuna. We NEVER leave traps unattended especially where kitties are involved. We set the trap and put inside two cat food cans, one with food and one empty so we can put water in it later. On the floor of the trap we put a little cardboard or newspaper and over the trap we place a towel. Once a trap is tripped we try to get to them as quick as we can. We cover the trap on all 4 sides to keep the cat calm, if you leave them uncovered they thrash and fight and hurt themselves. If we need the trap we find a confided area and transfer the cat to a crate. The transfer is a process in itself--if the cat see's one crack of light it will get out. We place the doors of the trap and the crate together with a board in-between them. We put towels-pillows around each side of the gap so there hopefully is no escape routes. We then slowly pull the board up and give the kitty a gentle nudge and it will move into the crate. Once in the crate the board goes back down immediately, pull the trap away and then slide the board out as we close the crate door. If we don't need the traps again we leave the cats in them. If the cats are staying in the trap they need the cardboard or a towel to lay on. If they are going in a crate we put newspaper on the floors with a towel so that they have some barrier to their urine. Once we are done trapping for the night (generally a dusk to midnight job) we take the cats to a safe garage or barn, give them a go over as best we can, water them (just a little) and cover them up for the night. The next morning bright and early we load them up for the clinic to get spayed or neutered.

At the clinic they knock them out spay and neuter them and then put the animals back in crates that we have supplied. The males stay in the crates and recover for the day, we feed them and release them that night. The females stay with us for at least a day--we watch them for any additional issues. Once they are up and moving and seem like they are going to be okay we feed and release them. The ideal situation is to release them back to where they came from. If they can't go back we try to find barns or other people who are managing a colony and see if we can release into their colony. The groups I work with give and take--if someone has some land they often will take the ferals that have no home, we take the kitties and adoptable older cats and try to adopt them out.

Sometimes an animal will be euthanized. The vets here evaluate every cat and treat as much as they can while they are under but occasionally they will find one that will suffer if let out into a colony. In these cases they will euthanize. They like to test ferals for kitty leukemia because it is transmitted to other cats, most often in these cases, if positive, they euthanize.

It talks a lot to get the feral out of cats and to gain their trust. Most people feel that feral kittens become unadoptable if they are not handled before about 10 weeks old--some say younger. I can tell you I have taken in feral kittens, it is not easy to tame them. Also my house does not work in their favor because I live a very quiet life...I have to induce noises in my house so that doesn't freak them out when they go into a home. The trick with any feral especially kittens is keep them confined!! I always feel guilty and want to let them out, staying caged is in their best interest! They are ready to roam when they quit hiding so much. I have cages that are open so they don't hide in a crate--the open cages allow them to see the world around and to become curious about it. You are best of to have less ferals and give them more time then to have many ferals and give them less time. The more feral kittens are handled the better. If I am home the cage moves from room to room with me--I take one kitten out one at a time for as much one on one time as I can give them. The more one on one interaction the better. I invite friends over to hold them and play with them. I've had great success with kittens but I've had some that never did tame. I had a dog at the time so I also exposed the kittens to my dog. My Sadie dog loved her kitties!

Very rarely do I bring adults home...I've taken in two and I've kept them in my office for a month or two and then I slowly integrated them with mine. During that time I would attempt to touch them but most often all I did for them was fed and clean up after them. I totally run on instinct when it comes to them. I have a dog door in my house so the other cats teach them how to use it and then they come and go as they please. They don't go to vets or get tons of shots. When I am working with adult ferals I do not look them in the eye, I use my peripheral vision. Eye contact can be threatening to them. Also if I do look a cat in the eye I do not stare and will blink my eyes slowly twice if we do gain contact. They do that with each other.

If they cats are in my neighborhood I find a feeding spot for them for a week or two and then out goes the trap. I release them back into my neighborhood and keep an eye on them. Predators in Seattle for feral cats are coyotes, raccoons, eagles, hawks and possums (although rare). The kittens are more exposed to other birds like seagulls, crows and blue jays. Feral cats will often abandon a kitten or all their kittens especially if they are first time mothers. Very rarely will you save a kitten who has not nursed from it's mother, I've seen it happen with 2 kittens that were abandoned but it took a village. Hand feeding newborn kittens is exhausting, they need fed and expressed every 2-4 hours.

Lots of people will help you trap if you are willing to help yourself, so to speak. If someone asks me to help them I want them to be involved. That means I will come and set the traps and teach them how to set it, I want them to watch the trap. Once a cat is trapped they can tend to it for the night or call me and I will come get it. If people wanted me to come deal with the situation I tend to be less involved mainly because it is difficult to find barns or other colonies and I just cannot let them all out into my neighborhood. There are costs depending on your state. We are very fortunate here to have great resources. Some things that can help save expenses are to only test the adults for leukemia--if one is positive then you may want to test the others. If it's mother cat with kittens we only test the mother. I do not get rabies shots only because rabies is very rare in Seattle however we have a growing bat population and I think I would rethink that now. I do give them the FVRCP shots---that one shot alone I think is worth it's weight in gold.

Anyways that's my 2 cents.

[Diavolo]

I've got a rescue Dobe at the house right now. She might have nipped at a child or something. She's only 9months old and she's just a spazz. Very sweet dog that just needs some training. Bubba is just being a snot. He's snapped at her a couple of times. She's heading to the rescue hopefully tomorrow. I need some rest before Sunday.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I hope everyone is doing well.

[violaine]

all is calm for now here- another meeting tomorrow afternoon w/commissioners.

the dobe rescue, andrew, feminineallure, and kimbo's work = ongoing and hard, but so very rewarding. thank you all for being you <3

hugs-
bella

[violaine]

[QUOTE=Kimbo;51358]As promised:

Situations vary on how I go about trapping--in a colony/hoarding case we take out as many traps as we can and get as many at once as we can care for. In my neighborhood it's single cats--I have 2 traps, one big Havaheart and one small squirrel trap that I use for trapping kittens.

In hoarder cases or colony cases we go in and feed for a week or two before hand. At one of the housing projects here that was being torn down we drove in and set up food/water stations and then made a strict point of driving the same car every night at the same time to feed them. 2 days before we are going to trap we only take out water and no food, on the third day we go in and set traps all around the feeding stations. In the traps we always put some mackerel or tuna. We NEVER leave traps unattended especially where kitties are involved. We set the trap and put inside two cat food cans, one with food and one empty so we can put water in it later. On the floor of the trap we put a little cardboard or newspaper and over the trap we place a towel. Once a trap is tripped we try to get to them as quick as we can. We cover the trap on all 4 sides to keep the cat calm, if you leave them uncovered they thrash and fight and hurt themselves. If we need the trap we find a confided area and transfer the cat to a crate. The transfer is a process in itself--if the cat see's one crack of light it will get out. We place the doors of the trap and the crate together with a board in-between them. We put towels-pillows around each side of the gap so there hopefully is no escape routes. We then slowly pull the board up and give the kitty a gentle nudge and it will move into the crate. Once in the crate the board goes back down immediately, pull the trap away and then slide the board out as we close the crate door. If we don't need the traps again we leave the cats in them. If the cats are staying in the trap they need the cardboard or a towel to lay on. If they are going in a crate we put newspaper on the floors with a towel so that they have some barrier to their urine. Once we are done trapping for the night (generally a dusk to midnight job) we take the cats to a safe garage or barn, give them a go over as best we can, water them (just a little) and cover them up for the night. The next morning bright and early we load them up for the clinic to get spayed or neutered.

At the clinic they knock them out spay and neuter them and then put the animals back in crates that we have supplied. The males stay in the crates and recover for the day, we feed them and release them that night. The females stay with us for at least a day--we watch them for any additional issues. Once they are up and moving and seem like they are going to be okay we feed and release them. The ideal situation is to release them back to where they came from. If they can't go back we try to find barns or other people who are managing a colony and see if we can release into their colony. The groups I work with give and take--if someone has some land they often will take the ferals that have no home, we take the kitties and adoptable older cats and try to adopt them out.

Sometimes an animal will be euthanized. The vets here evaluate every cat and treat as much as they can while they are under but occasionally they will find one that will suffer if let out into a colony. In these cases they will euthanize. They like to test ferals for kitty leukemia because it is transmitted to other cats, most often in these cases, if positive, they euthanize.

It talks a lot to get the feral out of cats and to gain their trust. Most people feel that feral kittens become unadoptable if they are not handled before about 10 weeks old--some say younger. I can tell you I have taken in feral kittens, it is not easy to tame them. Also my house does not work in their favor because I live a very quiet life...I have to induce noises in my house so that doesn't freak them out when they go into a home. The trick with any feral especially kittens is keep them confined!! I always feel guilty and want to let them out, staying caged is in their best interest! They are ready to roam when they quit hiding so much. I have cages that are open so they don't hide in a crate--the open cages allow them to see the world around and to become curious about it. You are best of to have less ferals and give them more time then to have many ferals and give them less time. The more feral kittens are handled the better. If I am home the cage moves from room to room with me--I take one kitten out one at a time for as much one on one time as I can give them. The more one on one interaction the better. I invite friends over to hold them and play with them. I've had great success with kittens but I've had some that never did tame. I had a dog at the time so I also exposed the kittens to my dog. My Sadie dog loved her kitties!

Very rarely do I bring adults home...I've taken in two and I've kept them in my office for a month or two and then I slowly integrated them with mine. During that time I would attempt to touch them but most often all I did for them was fed and clean up after them. I totally run on instinct when it comes to them. I have a dog door in my house so the other cats teach them how to use it and then they come and go as they please. They don't go to vets or get tons of shots. When I am working with adult ferals I do not look them in the eye, I use my peripheral vision. Eye contact can be threatening to them. Also if I do look a cat in the eye I do not stare and will blink my eyes slowly twice if we do gain contact. They do that with each other.

If they cats are in my neighborhood I find a feeding spot for them for a week or two and then out goes the trap. I release them back into my neighborhood and keep an eye on them. Predators in Seattle for feral cats are coyotes, raccoons, eagles, hawks and possums (although rare). The kittens are more exposed to other birds like seagulls, crows and blue jays. Feral cats will often abandon a kitten or all their kittens especially if they are first time mothers. Very rarely will you save a kitten who has not nursed from it's mother, I've seen it happen with 2 kittens that were abandoned but it took a village. Hand feeding newborn kittens is exhausting, they need fed and expressed every 2-4 hours.

Lots of people will help you trap if you are willing to help yourself, so to speak. If someone asks me to help them I want them to be involved. That means I will come and set the traps and teach them how to set it, I want them to watch the trap. Once a cat is trapped they can tend to it for the night or call me and I will come get it. If people wanted me to come deal with the situation I tend to be less involved mainly because it is difficult to find barns or other colonies and I just cannot let them all out into my neighborhood. There are costs depending on your state. We are very fortunate here to have great resources. Some things that can help save expenses are to only test the adults for leukemia--if one is positive then you may want to test the others. If it's mother cat with kittens we only test the mother. I do not get rabies shots only because rabies is very rare in Seattle however we have a growing bat population and I think I would rethink that now. I do give them the FVRCP shots---that one shot alone I think is worth it's weight in gold.

Anyways that's my 2 cents.

i really appreciate every inch of this post do you feel like you need some after typing all of that, and remembering the cases? ha.

{{{ kimbo}}}

your work is awesome, friend. the kitties are lucky to know you along their journeys.

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by violaine

i really appreciate every inch of this post do you feel like you need some after typing all of that, and remembering the cases? ha.

{{{ kimbo}}}

your work is awesome, friend. the kitties are lucky to know you along their journeys.

I do see the typo's and bad punctuation.. I am amazed I got that much out!

And yes...I just may need that stuff

[violaine]

gaining trust of a feral - when he comes around out of his comfort zone, for food from a human is pretty huge. in a minor way, i can compare the guinea pigs- who are prey animals- and while they trust me, beings who want to be picked up and held, is not prey animal wiring. accepting a prey animal/gp, or feral for who they are allows a person to see the full range/beauty of their appreciation of us !

[violaine]

On 2/16/10 3:10 PM/tuesday
Hi all,

The Commissioners meeting this morning didn't go exactly as planned (but it never does, right?!). Me and X were in attendance. During "wishes to be heard", I asked the commissioners if they were [Chief ACOs] boss and oversaw "general shelter operations" and they agreed.

I then led into some questions that I knew they couldn't answer very well since they truly have no idea about what goes on in the shelter. My intent was to follow up my questions with a request to hold a public forum so that [Chief ACO] could answer everyone's burning questions. The Commissioners actually attempted to give very vague answers to the questions that I asked, and told me that my questions would be best answered at the meeting that I have with Chief ACO and Commissioner this Thursday [later today]. I told them that was fine, but that I still thought it would be most effective to hold a public forum so that EVERYONE could ask questions. Commissioner X spoke up and told me that public forums like that typically turn into a bunch of angry people just "beating up" on the person answering the questions for the public. He said that he didn't think it was a good idea, and that he wouldn't be able to give me an answer about the public forum at that time. I took that as a "NO" for getting a public forum.

X and I did stick around to hear X Commissioner report on the decision regarding which organization would be used to assess the current state of the shelter. X Comm. said that he's contacted several local/state organizations but that no one really wanted to get involved with it because of the drama surrounding the shelter. He said that he's got a few national organizations that would be willing to assess the shelter but that they charge a fee - he didn't mention who the organizations were or what the fee would cost. He then asked the commissioners if they thought it would be a good idea to contact several reputable local vets to assess the shelter and the commissioners agreed that it might be something worth looking into. My opinion is that local vets know how to run a for-profit vets office, and have little to no experience in how a shelter should be operated... but this is still better than the original idea of bringing in the State Board of Animal Health. I think that someone within Humane Society needs to take charge and compile a list of organizations that could fairly assess the shelter. I just don't think that X Comm. is really qualified to chose the best organization for the job and needs some guidance. Maybe Indiana Welfare Sheltering Org. could assist us with this? [see below response].

The last important detail at the meeting was that Chief ACO has requested new laptops for all of her AC officers to carry with them while they're out on patrol in their vans. They apparently already have laptops but they are 5 years old and the batteries don't stay charged in them, so rather than replace the batteries with new $150 ones, she would like $9297 to purchase new laptops. They mentioned that this could possibly be paid for with money from the shelter's donation fund. Also, keep in mind too that she's asking for new laptops with the knowledge that the Commissioners are looking to reduce the number of people she has on staff.

Any thoughts on all this?

[response]

Hi all!
Below are the main two evaluations from national organizations that I know of. B. gave the information to X Comm. and told him at the time it would cost him money. I agree the contacting a vet is not the way to go. Vets and animal shelters are two totally different things. There are vets out there that specialize in shelter medicine, but not necessarily shelter operations. Your average private vet does not have the background in sheltering needed to really do an evaluation of the shelter in it’s entirety.

Shelter medicine vets would come into play to just address health of the animals in the shelter and typical shelter medicine issues such as kennel cough, upper respiratory infections in cats, protocols for highly contagious diseases such as parvo, etc.

American Humane Shelter Evaluation:
http://www.americanhumane.org/protec...er-training-ev aluation-program/

HSUS Evaluation:
http://www.animalsheltering.org/prog...ation_program/

X Comm. has yet to answer my email asking him what his timeline is for getting a basic informational report to them. I’m a little confused that he would tell the commissioners that others don’t want to help. We offered, just not willing at this point to go in the shelter because we probably wouldn’t get the info we needed anyway. The report we are willing to give him would however be very helpful for him to educate himself. There are also shelter self-evaluations questionnaires that they could use to get an idea of where they are what they need to do. Probably not best to have Chief ACO answer the questions, but it could be eye opening.

Maybe one of you can contact the above two organizations and get the info about how much evaluations would cost, what it would take, etc. They both would do an awesome job. Possibly a fundraising opportunity to have the community ban together and chip in the funds to purchase the evaluation?

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by violaine

gaining trust of a feral - when he comes around out of his comfort zone, for food from a human is pretty huge. in a minor way, i can compare the guinea pigs- who are prey animals- and while they trust me, beings who want to be picked up and held, is not prey animal wiring. accepting a prey animal/gp, or feral for who they are allows a person to see the full range/beauty of their appreciation of us !

so true---when working with ferals it is all on their time, you cannot push them or they will turn away. The good thing is that they are very forgiving and once the learn the beauty of the power of touch they do enjoy being touched and loved but being held really takes alot.

I have thoughts on your post but will be back to address when I am off work.

[violaine]

Hi all,

After nearly 2 hours of talking with Chief AC Officer, X Commissioner, and S. (Chief ACO's "#2 in-charge") today, I got several really positive points that I wanted to make everyone aware of. I am attaching the questions that I asked at the meeting (and I got nearly all of them answered) and have record of the exact answers in my possession. T. joined me at the meeting to take notes and interject her own comments/questions, and she really did a great job helping to keep the meeting on track while inputting some really great questions/comments as well!

The overall gist of the meeting that I got was that Chief ACO simply has too much on her plate to deal with all of the issues. Here's the basic meeting hightlights:

Volunteers: Ch.ACO said that she would "LOVE" to have volunteers. She said that she already has a volunteer application ready, but continually pointed out that volunteers could not walk dogs. While CH ACO really didn't give a concrete answer as to why volunteers weren't used, she did mention that HS did start a program "3 or 4 years ago" and that it didn't work out. She said that a previous HS President, ended up being the only volunteer that showed up through the "volunteer program" and CHACO said that she actually ended up hiring the one volunteer. CHACO said that it's up to the Commissioners if they want to allow volunteers, but she said that if HS wanted to coordinate the volunteers and start a program for the volunteers, the liability issue would be put on HS and not the shelter since they would technically be volunteering for HS. She said that she wouldn't care at all if someone came in, took pictures of the animals, and posted them to Petfinder.com. She said that she would even supply a bio for the animals being posted, and would let the person posting the animals know when one had been adopted. I made sure that X Commissioner noted that getting volunteers into the shelter was a top priority that I wanted brought up to the Commissioners.

Cleaning Practices: CHACO admitted to spaying down the cages with water while the animals were in them. She noted that was standard practice, and CHACO's assistant mentioned that it really didnt' matter anyways because the animals stand and lay in their own fecee's anyways. She said that she just doesn't have room to let the animal out while the cage is cleaned since the shelter is "at capacity". She said that the animal can get up on a bench inside the cage and stand while the cage is being cleaned so they don't get wet. She said that because they have heated floors, the animals aren't getting wet. She ended by saying that AC/shelter has one of the highest healthy adoption rates in the State.

Animal Control Authority: I pointed out the change in the ordinance from 1991, and asked her if she thought it would be a good idea to reinstate the Authority so that the Commissioners wouldn't have to deal with the shelter issues as often. She never directly answered if she thought it would be a good idea, but X Commissioner spoke up and said that it was certainly feasible to create an "advisory board" to act as a watchdog and buffer between CHACO and the Commissioners. He made sure to note that this would be comprised only of volunteers and the Commissioners would still be CHACO's boss.

Revenue & Financial Figures: The figures listed in her report actually checked out once she explained, so this was pretty much a dead end. We might want to contacty the auditors office and see her line items and where money is going because she had absolutely no idea. One important thing that X Commissioner and CHACO did mention was that donations couldn't be given with a stipulation attached (i.e. use this donation for cats only, spay/neuter,etc) and that CHACO and the shelter could use the donation for absolutely anything they wanted from buying new laptops, purchasing a vehicle, pizza parties for the staff, etc. She did say that she has 6 animal control officers, 1 kennel attendant, 1 kennel attendant/office help, and then her and the assistant.

Rescue Groups: She said that she 100% works with rescue groups, but the first thing that she does is tries to adopt the animals out herself before contacting rescues. She said that she really only wants to work with 501c3 "official" rescue groups. She did admit that the rescue has to go through the same process as anyone else trying to adopt an animal, but she claimed that this was a work in progress to streamline the process for rescue groups.

Euthanasia: Again, she had no idea how much it cost to euth. a 40 lbs. dog but said she will have that number to me by middle of next week. She admitted to using a squeeze cage on "feral, agressive animals" and a "gate" on wild animals, and she said that the shelter has a very nice table in the back where all other animals are euthanized. She did say that all animals are given a seditive prior to the euthanasia drug being administered, and that the euth. drug was either given intravenous or heart stick. She gave us the names of the drugs that she uses, and I'll look into them to see the effects and whether those are recommended. She stated that all of her animal control officers are approved to euthanize an animal and stated that Dr. M. and 2 other vets are the ones that give the officers the training. She didn't sound too sure about this, so I would bet that not all ac officers go to the vets she mentioned to receive training. She sounded like she was trying to cover up something when asked about euthanizing the animals. CHACO didn't seem to think that "shelter-requested" euthanasia rate was bad. She said that they are keeping track of the reasons why the animals are being euthanized now (at the request of the Commissioners).

Adoptions: CHACO seemed to think that her adoption process was easy (even though she requires cash payment for adoptions along a $9.95 money order made out to the AKC). She said that she would much rather adopt an animal than have to put it to sleep.

Marketing: CHACO agreed that she needed to get the shelter marketed better through online media and other media sources. She said that she would be happy if a volunteer would help to take this up.

Saturday Hours: I questioned CHACO about the Saturday hours, pointing out that she had listed 46 open Saturdays in her report, even though it the shelter could have only been open a maximum of 22. I also pointed out that her phone and website were never changed to note the new Saturday hours until April - she said it wasn't her fault and that the engineering department was responsible. I asked her point blank if she wanted to keep Saturday hours and she never gave me a direct answer but eluded to the fact that she doesn't because 1) she's getting more people surrendering their animals on Saturday's, and 2) it means that she has to lose a staff member one day through the week so that the shelter can be opened on Saturday's.

I hope that summarized most of the main points, but if there is a question that you see in the attachment that I did post an answer to, just shoot me an email and I'll get you the exact response. CHACO, X Commissioner, and CHACO's assistant know that I'm serious and that there are MANY serious people out here that want to see the shelter move into the 21st century, so I really think that as long as we stay on CHACO, assistant, & Commissioners, change is bound to happen. Please continue to attend the meetings about this, and certainly go to the Commissioners meetings every Tuesday at 9:30am. I am sticking with this until I physically see the change with my own two eyes, and I hope that everyone else sticks with it too!


Regards,

[BestButchBoy]

Originally Posted by violaine

gaining trust of a feral - when he comes around out of his comfort zone, for food from a human is pretty huge. in a minor way, i can compare the guinea pigs- who are prey animals- and while they trust me, beings who want to be picked up and held, is not prey animal wiring. accepting a prey animal/gp, or feral for who they are allows a person to see the full range/beauty of their appreciation of us !

When I lived in Boston I had a colony of ferals that I fed, watered and neutered. I got 4 of them homes. And, I'm still in love with one special kitty who now lives with a good friend of mine in Boston. Her name is Buddy. Trust didn't come easy for her, but, we eventually bonded. And now, she lives a wonderful, love-filled life.

It's a tough life for all those poor babies out there---some abandoned, some just born wild. Same for packs of dogs.

I will never understand why ppl choose to an animal and then don't take care of it until it's life is over. It's a crime.

Gratefully, there are a lot ppl who take care of these poor wayward souls.

Good work!

[violaine]

I have a couple of questions.

What was her answer when asked about "counseling" owners who called to surrender their pets? Is there any type of "counsel" given into other options verses total surrender?

She said that when a person wants to surrender an animal, they are asked to fill out a card with any info that they have on the pet. She said that they receive both strays and family pets as surrenders CHACO assistant- said that they will try to "work with" the owner if they are surrendering a pet, such as giving the owner a bag of dog food (if surrender is for a financial reason). It was clear that there is no direct or written procedure for "counseling" owners who are surrendering an animal, so I'm guessing the person at the front desk can chose to counsel an owner if he/she wants. Owners are not directly told that the animal will have little chance for making it out of the shelter and into a home, but it does list in the fine print of the form the owner fills out that the animal could be euthanized.

I have also been thinking of how to request info on what percentage of animals taken in are of a "law enforcement" variety verses "standard shelter" type intake.

she said- I understand your question, and I believe this is outlined for the most part in the 2009 Animal Control Report. I asked CHACO what the "city in" figure meant and she said that was for animals that came in from the X Animal Control Officer (who apparently isn't affiliated with AC/shelter and works directly for the town of X) or its from animals being dropped off by public officials who are on duty such as police officiers. It sounded like the Commissioners are making them keep better bookkeeping on where the animals are coming from, why they are being euthanized, etc.


What was her response to the questions about animals "born in" the shelter?

CHACO said- that they don't have a vet on staff so if an animal comes in pregnant, then there is no way for the shelter to abort the pregnacy so they end up isolating the mother to let her birth her puppies/kittens. This was the first instance that I've heard of where a shelter doesn't have any way to abort a pregnacy. I hate to be insensitive, but it would probably cost the county less to abort the pregnacy then allow the mother to have the babies, have to care for the babies, and then the babies meet an almost certain death via euthanasia.


What was the answer to the # to reach their "at-capacity" and runs being used for storage?

Neither CHACO or assistant had any idea what the capacity of the shelter was...

they only said - that they had 30 runs. She did admit to the "Whelping kennel" being used for storage and the outside runs being used for storage or not being used at all. She said that most people who go to the shelter and see a section of the shelter blocked off think that part of the shelter isn't being used when in fact, that part of the shelter is used for the "expecting or birthing mothers area".

How did she respond when asked if she wanted a relationship with the Humane Society?

This was one of the only questions that I didn't get to ask because X Commissioner cut the meeting off right before I got to that question. From what I could gather, CHACO has had problems with HS in the past but was open to working with HS in the future, so I would say she's willing.


I think that there were really great steps forward in the meeting to have a relationship and open disclosure that is long overdue. Let's try to keep the momentum moving forward!!!

[IttyBittyFem]

Originally Posted by violaine

I have a couple of questions.

What was her answer when asked about "counseling" owners who called to surrender their pets? Is there any type of "counsel" given into other options verses total surrender?

She said that when a person wants to surrender an animal, they are asked to fill out a card with any info that they have on the pet. She said that they receive both strays and family pets as surrenders CHACO assistant- said that they will try to "work with" the owner if they are surrendering a pet, such as giving the owner a bag of dog food (if surrender is for a financial reason). It was clear that there is no direct or written procedure for "counseling" owners who are surrendering an animal, so I'm guessing the person at the front desk can chose to counsel an owner if he/she wants. Owners are not directly told that the animal will have little chance for making it out of the shelter and into a home, but it does list in the fine print of the form the owner fills out that the animal could be euthanized.

I'd like to address just one part of your post Violaine. In our "Off List" conversation, I mentioned I've been a volunteer for NJ Boxer Rescue for over 20 years. During this period of time, I've learned so much through each individual case.

From my experience, attempting to counsel anyone into keeping their pet when they've already come to the decision to give them up. The one thing that really has a LARGE red flag, for me anyway, is the fact any owner would bring their pet to a "Kill" facility, rather than a shelter that has a "No Kill" Policy. Then you have the factor that they obviously didn't make an attempt to place their pet on their own, whether it be through word of mouth, Ad's, etc. I could go on and on with numerous signs the Owner not only wants to get rid of their pet, as well as lack of effort to do what's best for the animal. However, I personally do not want to make any attempt to convince the owner into keeping the pet. I've seen it done and in almost every single case, the pet eventually ends up back at the original (or other) Shelter within a 6 month period of time.

If the animal is a purebred, every single breed has their own Rescue Organization. If the animal is not a purebred, there are tons of Rescue Organizations that handle those type of cases.

If the owner doesn't want to make the effort to seek out any of these Rescue Groups, then at least find a facility that has a "No Kill" Policy.
So basically, what I'm saying is, any person that has already made up their minds to be rid of their burden (harsh words however, it's a harsh situation) should not be counseled into keeping their pets. Allow the animal to have a second chance in life by finding them a home where they'll be loved and cared for, rather than feeling the vibe, 'I don't want you'. Animals have the ability to sense a human's feelings. Do we really want them to stay with people that clearly have no desire to keep their pet? NOT me. I'd rather see the animal go to a Foster Home, evaluated while at the Foster and matched up with a home that will love their new addition to their family.

One last thing - this is clearly my own personal opinion, derived from years of experience with Boxer Rescue. I certainly welcome anyone that have different experiences and/or different opinions to jump right in and let us see this from a different perspective.

[Kimbo]

Itty, I don't completely agree with you and this is why. When was the last time you called a purebred rescue group or any rescue group and they actually were accepting an animal, openings/foster homes are far and few inbetween. Help, well, there are just not enough of us to help all the animals that need help. I had to accept that long ago.

Also, in counseling a family you can find out if there is something you could do to help them, say the animal was having a simple behaviour problem? What if leading the family to a resource to help with the issue then will allow them to keep the animal. Many animals get dumped at the shelter because of medical issues some simple to treat, others, well we all know what vet's cost!

And very few cities have no kill shelters, sadly, Seattle does not. With over 6 million animals euthanized a year...well where do we put them all? Who feeds them? It's just not a reality. What is reality is that people need to slowdown on the breeding, and more people need to be involved in their neighborhoods.

[Diavolo]

The problem is we want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are breeders and there are breeders. We had a situation just a couple of weeks ago where a guy had a litter of puppies. One had a broken leg and he acted as if he hadn't even seen it broken. It was sticking straight out. We got the puppy. A week later a volunteer bought all of the puppies. When we went to get the puppies we talked him out of both bitches. When those puppies go to homes from the rescue they'll have chips, tattoos and contracts that they come back to the rescue if ever they can't stay in their "forever" home. He is not a breeder. He's a dumb ass that let his two dogs fuck.

A real breeder has contracts that they fulfill. Their buyers must complete local training courses for their dogs. They must have proper vet care. Their puppies are chipped and in the event they come into a shelter, the breeder wants them back and takes them back. No questions asked. A real breeder's dogs don't end up in shelters. A real breeder health tests and does specific planned breedings to dogs of a certain quality that will enhance the breed. Both parents NEVER live on site. If there were only real breeders out there, shelters and rescues would merrily go out of business.

We're very focused on sterilization and breed hate, but if the public perception of where to get a dog was educated by the dog clubs, there wouldn't be a problem.

Quietly the Doberman community is happy that CJ did not win the Westminster, even though we all think she was robbed. We all know that every Tom, Dick and Harry would want to start breeding Dobermans and that would be bad for the breed. I look at all of the trainwreck dogs we get through here and then I look at CJ. And we know that those clowns don't get what makes her so majestic. She's one of the most winning dogs in the country and I'm glad she's a bitch. At least there won't been viles of frozen giz to propagate. That might be a good thing.