What attracts you to Ftms ......

[The_Lady_Snow]

Actually Gemme, my point to my posts is/was that you can state your desires/wants/kinks/role playing/ dynamics without having to judge what others have done..

It seems to be a continuous tiring conversation in the forums that what you like may not be what I like and that there is no need to critique what others do.

[BullDog]

Gemme, it does not feel like people are talking about kink to me. I was quite surprised when that was brought up. I don't feel anyone is speaking out against anyone's kink.

The 1950s, June Cleaver, "OFOS" all the these things get brought up constantly- it does seem to be about social commentary and values and times that were "better" when women were ladies and men were gentleman. It hits quite a sore spot. I suppose we are supposed to stay in our own little camps and say nothing.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't understand Julie, why Mike's and Soon's posts are read as detremental to the conversation, how they are read as attacking yet the two posts that I quoted aren't?

How does that happen?

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Actually Gemme, my point to my posts is/was that you can state your desires/wants/kinks/role playing/ dynamics without having to judge what others have done..

It seems to be a continuous tiring conversation in the forums that what you like may not be what I like and that there is no need to critique what others do.

Okay. I see that and do hear that from you. And you are right. Everyone should be able to do their own thing without judgement as long as it's consensual.

What you are saying here is what I was saying earlier. To me, it felt like the dynamic...the exchange between folks using some of the standards of that time....were was was being challenged. I see that it's more than that now.

Basically, as I understand it, this stemmed from a set of comments made about how this era was the best and that some folks wished the world was like this now, etc. Somehow that opinion morphed into a judgement call on others who do not participate in that dynamic.

I have to withdraw from the conversation, as it's time for work, but I think we're saying a lot of the same thing. There's just that one part that seems to be tripping folks up.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Actually Gemme, my point to my posts is/was that you can state your desires/wants/kinks/role playing/ dynamics without having to judge what others have done..

It seems to be a continuous tiring conversation in the forums that what you like may not be what I like and that there is no need to critique what others do.

Originally Posted by BullDog

Gemme, it does not feel like people are talking about kink to me. I was quite surprised when that was brought up. I don't feel anyone is speaking out against anyone's kink.

The 1950s, June Cleaver, "OFOS" all the these things get brought up constantly- it does seem to be about social commentary and values and times that were "better" when women were ladies and men were gentleman. It hits quite a sore spot. I suppose we are supposed to stay in our own little camps and say nothing.

One last thing....see how it can be confusing? We have two different themes running through the same conversation.

So, part of it is based on preferences and part of it is based on historical ramifications.

Really have to go now, but I promise I'll be back later tonight! Thanks for the discussion!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've also had to deal with shit like this in real time situations, at dinner even. (ISMS)

And no I don't stay silent and 95% of the time, the person who spit out the ism, gets defensive, weird and turns it around on me.

People fear progression, I get it now at 43 that doesn't mean because of their fear, that I will be silenced.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

I hope you realize I am not saying I believe you, or anyone, at this moment is being a "mean girl" cause I've never thought that. I have seen the "mean girl" but not here and not on this site. I didn't use mean girl as a way to narrow it down to gender. It's a common way of describing a specific pattern. It could be a girl or a guy.

I think Gemme made a great point in her last post. There do seem to be two discussions going on at the same time. Confusing to say the least.

I'm not trying to say that I feel anyone is right or wrong, just that there are two ways to look at things and it makes it easier for ME to try to see things from both sides. Then I don't get my feelings hurt and take things personally.

I agree this shit is old. Which is why I said something in the first place.


j

[girl_dee]

i think for some people, possibly myself included, we don't feel that we are whitewashing history by adopting certain behaviors from that time period.

i get that women had no rights, i get that women were stripped of our dreams, hopes and the right to live in our own skin. Hell as an adult i was told i made less money than my male co-worker because he had a high house note to pay. We did the exact same job, only i did mine more efficiently.

By me choosing to embrace being a home maker doesn't by any stretch mean that i do not get and honor that time period and the struggles we still go through.

In fact it feels even more empowering in some ways because i am choose to live this way, i love what i do, i get to choose, and no matter what my choice it is honored.

[BullDog]

dee, for me it has nothing to do with if someone chooses to be a homemaker or other role in their life. Nothing at all. I am not sure what is being lost in translation.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by BullDog

dee, for me it has nothing to do with if someone chooses to be a homemaker or other role in their life. Nothing at all. I am not sure what is being lost in translation.

oh Bully i didn't think it did. i think i just typed outloud and the thoughts had just occurred to me after reading through.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

I guess the other way to look at is:

There are a few folks who dont get where I am coming from, and asking me for more information or to clarify something I said.
Its not just one person who is having a hard time understanding what I said.

Trust me when i didnt post what i really wanted to post, when i said i was waiting for an answer, that would have been attacking, because for the life of me, I cant imagine why any would would want to come in here and be an asshole, there are plenly of other places for that to happen on the web. So i was going with I dont understand and in doing that, you didnt understand where I was coming from.

Its all in the form of perception!

I call it engaging brain before engaging fingers.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

oh Bully i didn't think it did. i think i just typed outloud and the thoughts had just occurred to me after reading through.

Ah ok, I am a bit confused still, but I most definitely see the way you live as a very powerful choice.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Mike

I guess the other way to look at is:

There are a few folks who dont get where I am coming from, and asking me for more information or to clarify something I said.
Its not just one person who is having a hard time understanding what I said.

Trust me when i didnt post what i really wanted to post, when i said i was waiting for an answer, that would have been attacking, because for the life of me, I cant imagine why any would would want to come in here and be an asshole, there are plenly of other places for that to happen on the web. So i was going with I dont understand and in doing that, you didnt understand where I was coming from.

Its all in the form of perception!

I call it engaging brain before engaging fingers.

Mike, I'm gonna try this one more time.

If you felt like re-reading my posts, you would see I tried to explain that to me personally, I did not see your post as what you seem to think I am saying I did.

I tried to say it COULD be seeing as and then gave reasons why I felt it COULD be seen as that. Not once did I say I actually saw it as rude, snarky, attacking.....insert whatever. I only spoke of how it COULD be taken by people who felt insecure and indimiated already.

It is absolutely all about perception. Which is exactly what I was talking about.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

Mike, I'm gonna try this one more time.

If you felt like re-reading my posts, you would see I tried to explain that to me personally, I did not see your post as what you seem to think I am saying I did.

I tried to say it COULD be seeing as and then gave reasons why I felt it COULD be seen as that. Not once did I say I actually saw it as rude, snarky, attacking.....insert whatever. I only spoke of how it COULD be taken by people who felt insecure and indimiated already.

It is absolutely all about perception. Which is exactly what I was talking about.

Julie I get that, but sometimes you know, it is just what it is, nothing more, nothing less. people have to own their own stuff.

thanks

[BullDog]

Well Femmsational, I certainly have a completely different read on Soon and Mike's comments.

When I read DMW saying he wants a place to just be an asshole, my thoughts in my head were wow, really, males have the whole world to be an asshole in.

I thought Soon's comment was very straightforward with absolutely no snark.

And when I read Mike's comment, it felt good to see another male paying attention and wanting to hear more about this- something I appreciate.

That's how I read it.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Mike

Julie I get that, but sometimes you know, it is just what it is, nothing more, nothing less. people have to own their own stuff.

thanks

Amen!!!

I could not agree more

[Hominid]

I'm not even going to go there - I have no desire to expand this, and shouldn't have brought it up to begin with. It was not someone sharing his views.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People coming in and stating their views and having a conversation is not a "SMACK DOWN"

I am unsure of what thread you are talking about since there are so many here on BFP, but I have yet to see anyone *smacking* anyone have folks been taken to task? Yes Do the isms get called out? Yeap. If you are being harrassed or threatened on BFP you should really really have the Moderators take care of that for you

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Gemme, it does not feel like people are talking about kink to me. I was quite surprised when that was brought up. I don't feel anyone is speaking out against anyone's kink.

This actually threw me too. I don't consider the lifestyle being discussed as a "kink". The "you do the car repairs, take the trash out, open my door, and in return I'll cook and clean and pamper you when you get home at the end of the day" is not kink. It's a relationship or lifestyle dynamic. I don't even think it's role playing or mimicking "50's traditional values", and I can say that because I've lived that life, and it wasn't because I found it kinky, or glamorous - it was what fit me and my partner at the time. He took on all the "traditional" binary "male" roles in the relationship, and I took on the "female" ones, except that he cooked sometimes. And before anyone thinks about taking a torch to me, please reread where I referenced this as "TRADITIONAL binary gender roles". I'm not implying butches can't do X and femmes can't do X. I can do whatever the fuck I want to, and usually do, including riding motorcycles, getting tattoos, and playing poker. But I'm not going to pretend that in some relationships I've been in, those "traditional binary gender roles" didn't set in on their own, organically. That doesn't mean I was kept from doing anything - I am and was still my own person. I don't like taking out the trash, or fixing things around the house. I felt blessed that my partner liked doing all those things. But I never once saw any of this as "kink."

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Gemme

One last thing....see how it can be confusing? We have two different themes running through the same conversation.

So, part of it is based on preferences and part of it is based on historical ramifications.

Really have to go now, but I promise I'll be back later tonight! Thanks for the discussion!

It isn't just that we have different themes running through this conversation, but I think the latest conversation is that some people want to have a safe place to post without being challenged. I get it, but that's not what public forums are about. I think there are two solutions: discuss in person, in private, or in a private online chat room made up of people that are like minded or who won't challenge you; or post in the Listening thread, where nobody is allowed to respond. It's not perfect, but nothing can be all things to everyone, and since this is mostly a public site, this obviously is not a place where people can post their opinions and thoughts without responses.

[Greyson]

Yes, I am posting this in hopes that all of us may pause and consider our agenda. BTW, I don't think "agenda" is necessarily a bad thing. I just want to know what is really motivating some of my words and actions.

Is my number one priority making this world and in that this community a better and safe place for women?

How do I realize, materialize this goal for women and others if they want help in doing so?

Am I overly invested in being right? Do I want to look the most intelligent? Do I want everyone to notice me? Maybe I do. I ask myself these questions because I am a member of this community that posts often and I do see myself as part of this community. In my mind that makes me responsible to assist in the well being of women, full realization of womens rights, respect in words and actions for women and for the education of "others."

How can I do this? First through my own actions, thoughts, and beliefs. Secondly, with some willingness to put my fear and ego aside. Third take action and try to treat others as I would like to be treated.