Same-Sex Marriage Update - Page 25

Greyson · 08-19-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Thursday, August 19, 2010
SAN DIEGO: 12 Activists Arrested In Marriage Protest At County Clerk's Office

A dozen activists were arrested today at a San Diego county clerk's office when they refused to leave without being issue marriage licenses.
On the day hundreds of gay and lesbian couples statewide planned to obtain their long-awaited marriage licenses, a crowd of about 50 people gathered at the county clerk's office Thursday to protest a federal judge's stay of a federal ruling that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional. Three people were taken away in plastic handcuffs by sheriff's deputies early in the demonstration and an additional nine people were removed later. A deputy said they were detained for blocking access to a county office. Tony and Tyler Dylan-Hyde and at least one other couple came to the county clerk's office this morning at 8 a.m. asking to receive their marriage license. "We believe that county officials and the Attorney General have the authority and the obligation to allow marriage licenses to proceed based on both federal court findings and that Prop. 8 is unconstitutional and the governor's filings in Prop. 8 cases," Tyler Dylan-Hyde said. "We are asking you to do what's right."

According to the linked news story, those arrested had blocked the entrance of heterosexual couples with appointments to get licenses.

I'm curious. Did the media get a statement from any of the heterosexual couples as to their thoughts on equality and same sex marriage? I wonder if they truly understand their heterosexual privilege and if so, do they care?

MsTinkerbelly · 08-19-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

I'm curious. Did the media get a statement from any of the heterosexual couples as to their thoughts on equality and same sex marriage? I wonder if they truly understand their heterosexual privilege and if so, do they care?

There was a video along with the story that I didn't have time to watch, so there may or may not have been some interaction between "us and them".

In answer to your question, which may have just been rhetorical.....I believe personally that most hetrosexual people have no clue. If they knew what we feel every time they easily do something we are forbidden; (marry, adopt, housing, employment) I would like to think they would think twice about throwing the privilege in our faces.

But then again not even I really believe that, and I think the best of everyone.

Soon · 08-19-2010, 08:30 PM

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Proposition 8 Lawsuit

leatherfaery · 08-19-2010, 09:19 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...L&type=science

Soon · 08-23-2010, 04:58 PM

What Does Obama Really Think About Gay Marriage? A Telling Timeline.

James Downie

In the gay marriage debate, President Obama says that he supports civil unions for same-sex couples. But has this always been his view? A look back at his statements on gay marriage, from his days as a state senate candidate until his time in the White House, suggests that Obama's public stance has shifted notably:

1996: In response to a questionnaire from Outlines newspaper (now part of Windy City Times), Obama, a candidate for the Illinois state senate seat representing the wealthy Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago, writes, “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages." Eight years later, in a letter to Windy City Times, Obama would say that he opposed the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) of 1996, calling it “an effort to demonize people for political advantage” that should be repealed.

1998: Responding to an Illinois State Legislative National Political Awareness Test: “Q: Do you believe that the Illinois government should recognize same-sex marriages? A: Undecided.”

2004: In an interview with Windy City Times, Obama mentions the religious dimension of the gay marriage debate, says he supports civil unions, and indicates that his stance is dictated in large part by political strategy:

Obama: I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot of voters, has a religious connotation. I know that's true in the African-American community, for example. And if you asked people, 'should gay and lesbian people have the same rights to transfer property, and visit hospitals, and et cetera,' they would say, 'absolutely.' And then if you talk about, 'should they get married?', then suddenly…

WCT: There are more than 1,000 federal benefits that come with marriage. Looking back in the 1960s and inter-racial marriage, the polls showed people against that as well.

Obama: Since I'm a product of an interracial marriage, I'm very keenly aware of ...

WCT: But you think, strategically, gay marriage isn't going to happen so you won't support it at this time?

Obama: What I'm saying is that strategically, I think we can get civil unions passed. I think we can get SB 101 [which would add “sexual orientation” to Illinois’s non-discrimination laws] passed. I think that to the extent that we can get the rights, I'm less concerned about the name.”

2006: In his bestseller, The Audacity of Hope, Obama, now a U.S. senator, explains his support for civil unions, again mentioning religion and noting the strategic problems that the push for gay marriage poses:

For many practicing Christians, the inability to compromise may apply to gay marriage. I find such a position troublesome, particularly in a society in which Christian men and women have been known to engage in adultery or other violations of their faith without civil penalty. I believe that American society can choose to carve out a special place for the union of a man and a woman as the unit of child rearing most common to every culture. I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights no such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex—nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount. …The heightened focus on marriage is a distraction from other, attainable measures to prevent discrimination and gays and lesbians. (pp. 222-3)

July 2007: At the CNN/YouTube Democratic primary debate in Charleston, South Carolina, Obama discusses interracial versus gay marriage and says that it should be up to individual religions whether they recognize civil unions as marriages:

Anderson Cooper: Senator Obama, the laws banning interracial marriage in the United States were ruled unconstitutional in 1967. What is the difference between a ban on interracial marriage and a ban on gay marriage?

Obama: Well, I think that it is important to pick up on something that was said earlier by both Dennis [Kucinich] and by Bill [Richardson], and that is that we've got to make sure that everybody is equal under the law. And the civil unions that I proposed would be equivalent in terms of making sure that all the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for same-sex couples as well as for heterosexual couples.

Now, with respect to marriage, it's my belief that it's up to the individual denominations to make a decision as to whether they want to recognize marriage or not. But in terms of, you know, the rights of people to transfer property, to have hospital visitation, all those critical civil rights that are conferred by our government, those should be equal.

August 2007: At the Human Rights Campaign/Logo gay issues debate, also during the Democratic primaries, Obama emphasizes the religious importance of the term “marriage” and explains why civil unions aren’t discriminatory:

Q: If you were back in the Illinois legislature where you served and the issue of civil marriage came before you, how would you have voted on that?

A: My view is that we should try to disentangle what has historically been the issue of the word “marriage,” which has religious connotations to some people, from the civil rights that are given to couples, in terms of hospital visitation, in terms of whether or not they can transfer property or Social Security benefits and so forth. So it depends on how the bill would’ve come up. I would’ve supported and would continue to support a civil union that provides all the benefits that are available for a legally sanctioned marriage. And it is then, as I said, up to religious denominations to make a determination as to whether they want to recognize that as marriage or not.

Q: On the grounds of civil marriage, can you see to our community where [your stance of separating gay rights from the word “marriage”] comes across as sounding like “separate but equal”?

A: Look, when my parents got married in 1961, it would have been illegal for them to be married in a number of states in the South. So obviously, this is something that I understand intimately, it’s something that I care about. But if I were advising the civil rights movement back in 1961 about its approach to civil rights, I would have probably said it’s less important that we focus on an anti-miscegenation law than we focus on a voting rights law and a non-discrimination and employment law and all the legal rights that are conferred by the state. Now, it’s not for me to suggest that you shouldn’t be troubled by these issues. But my job as president is going to be to make sure that the legal rights that have consequences on a day to day basis for loving same sex couples all across the country.

2008: In an interview with MTV, Obama says he opposes Prop 8, but also gay marriage. Civil unions, the candidate says, are sufficient:

I have stated my opposition to [Prop 8]. I think it is unnecessary. I believe that marriage is between a man and woman and I am not in favor of gay marriage, but when you're playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that that is not what America is about. Usually constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them. What I believe is that if we have strong civil unions out there that provide legal rights to same-sex couples that they can visit each other in the hospital if they get sick, that they can transfer property to each other. If they've got benefits, they can make sure those benefits apply to their partners. I think that is the direction we need to go.

2010: After the Perry decision, which struck down Prop 8, the White House releases this statement: “The president has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory. He will continue to promote equality for LGBT Americans." Meanwhile, White House senior adviser David Axelrod tells MSNBC that Obama "does oppose same-sex marriage, but he supports equality for gay and lesbian couples. … He supports civil unions. That’s been his position throughout. So nothing has changed."

Jess · 08-24-2010, 08:00 AM

http://gayrights.change.org/blog/vie..._peas_in_a_pod

Jess · 08-24-2010, 01:00 PM

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/blog/e...n-lead-the-way

MsTinkerbelly · 08-25-2010, 03:19 PM

WYOMING: Gay Couple Challenges Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

A young gay couple has filed a federal court challenge to the constitutionality of Wyoming's ban on same-sex marriage. So far, they are representing themselves.
The lawsuit, filed Aug. 13 by David Shupe-Roderick, 25, and Ryan W. Dupree, 21, is the first legal challenge in recent memory to Wyoming’s law defining marriage as being a contract solely “between a male and a female person.” The couple, who are representing themselves, filed the lawsuit after the Laramie County Clerk's Office refused three times to issue them a marriage license. That's unequal treatment, they said, and they're asking U.S. District Judge Alan B. Johnson to stop the state from enforcing any laws that block gays and lesbians from access to civil marriage. “We determined that a lawsuit was the only possible way for them to get to recognize us as people,” Shupe-Roderick said. “I think it’s time that Wyoming lives up to its title. You know they call themselves the Equality State? Well, they’re not so equal.”
The plaintiffs say they cannot afford an attorney and can't find one to take their case for free. They add that so far they are relying on knowledge one of them acquired while interning for the ACLU

christie · 08-25-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

WYOMING: Gay Couple Challenges Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

A young gay couple has filed a federal court challenge to the constitutionality of Wyoming's ban on same-sex marriage. So far, they are representing themselves.
The lawsuit, filed Aug. 13 by David Shupe-Roderick, 25, and Ryan W. Dupree, 21, is the first legal challenge in recent memory to Wyoming’s law defining marriage as being a contract solely “between a male and a female person.” The couple, who are representing themselves, filed the lawsuit after the Laramie County Clerk's Office refused three times to issue them a marriage license. That's unequal treatment, they said, and they're asking U.S. District Judge Alan B. Johnson to stop the state from enforcing any laws that block gays and lesbians from access to civil marriage. “We determined that a lawsuit was the only possible way for them to get to recognize us as people,” Shupe-Roderick said. “I think it’s time that Wyoming lives up to its title. You know they call themselves the Equality State? Well, they’re not so equal.”
The plaintiffs say they cannot afford an attorney and can't find one to take their case for free. They add that so far they are relying on knowledge one of them acquired while interning for the ACLU

Interesting wording: "man and a female person"

Wonder why it isnt male person and female person?

Jess · 08-26-2010, 05:19 AM

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-im-gay/62065/

Toughy · 08-26-2010, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-im-gay/62065/

we are supposed to be happy because a rat bastard decided to come out and probably wants to get legally married?????

Jess · 08-26-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

we are supposed to be happy because a rat bastard decided to come out and probably wants to get legally married?????

If you want to be happy, then do so. It is just a news tidbit that was out there and I thought it worth sharing.

christie · 08-26-2010, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

we are supposed to be happy because a rat bastard decided to come out and probably wants to get legally married?????

Ya know, for me (and this is obviously different for you), I try not to rush to judgement about folks. I don't see it on my to-do list to judge how/when someone comes out. Its not my story nor my life and I think we all know that some folks "get to the party later than others".

For me, it certainly doesn't hurt to have someone with his political connections on the side of equality. I get a kick out of thinking about how his good ole' boys in the RNC will have to think about their views of gays since Mehlman is reported to be the most powerful Republican to have come out. I'd also like to see his energies utilized in repealing DOMA, DADT moreso than I would for him to continue to have to explain ad nauseam why it took him so long to come out.

Perhaps it seems trite to some, but I'd rather have our numbers increasing. The more the merrier - and it would seem that someone such as Mehlman would have a better chance of their voice being heard - of having the capacity to effect change - moreso than average jo schmoe me.

I'm sure that Toughy has a different opinion on this and I don't want this to become a debate about our different views. I think that Mehlman's coming out and open support of marriage equality is a good thing.

MsTinkerbelly · 08-26-2010, 08:02 AM

FLASHBACK: Mehlman Supports 2005 Federal Marriage Amendment

In January 2005, GOP Sen. Wayne Allard (CO) introduced the Marriage Protection Amendment (a verbatim restating of the earlier failed Federal Management Amendment) with 21 Senate GOP co-sponsors. Later that year the bill was approved for review by the full Senate Judiciary Committee. Newly appointed RNC chair Ken Mehlman gave the bill his full support to reporters at an Ohio GOP fundraiser that March.
During his Akron remarks, Mehlman put forth political and policy statements often viewed as anti-gay. “Republicans are for government that stands on the side of marriage,” he said, “and on the side of strong families.” After the dinner, he was asked by a reporter about the GOP’s support for the so-called Marriage Protection Amendment, introduced in the House last week by Rep. Dan Lundgren of California. Mehlman made it clear that he supports the amendment. “I don’t think it’s anti-gay,” said Mehlman. “I don’t think the intent is to be anti-anything.”
Members of the Cleveland Log Cabin Republicans attending the dinner expressed disappointment that Mehlman evaded questions about his sexuality. "He almost said it," one pouted. The above-linked story notes no such LCR regret about Mehlman's support for permanently enshrining anti-gay legislation in the motherfucking federal Constitution.

MsTinkerbelly · 08-26-2010, 08:04 AM

Repulsive Anti-Gay Quisling Homophobic Scumbag Asshat Closeted Former RNC Chair Ken Mehlman Has Come Out

Maybe the $4M loft he bought in gay gay gay Chelsea this summer did (or more likely, brought) the trick, as Mike Rogers reports today that repulsive 2004 Dubya campaign manager and former RNC chairman Ken Mehlman is about to come out. [UPDATE: It's official. See update at the bottom of this post.]

In 2004 Steve Schmidt (then the Republican National Convention spokesman and later the McCain campaign's senior strategist) lied to me when I asked him point blank about Mehlman. "Ken Mehlman is not gay," he proclaimed. In 2006, Mehlman told the New York Daily News, "I am not gay, but those stories did a number on my dating life for six months." It's so nice to be proven right, me that is, not Ken. If this move doesn't call for a Roy Cohn Award, I don't know what does. Ken Mehlman is horridly homophobic and no matter how orchestrated his coming out is, our community should hold him accountable for his past.

As we saw with Jim McGreevy, many gay leaders will attempt to elbow themselves to the front of the line to say on cable TV how wonderful it is that Ken is now being honest with the American people. Someone will be quoted in the New York Times saying something like, "After so many years of working for the Republicans, it's wonderful to see Ken be true to himself." Or perhaps you'll read a quote in the Washington Post about how "every gay person is on their own personal journey and we are happy Ken has decided to be so open about his personal struggle." Next up will come the book, then the TV shows, and of course the speaking tour. I'll only buy it if he is really sorry.

Mehlman's crimes against his own people are motherfucking LEGION. Mike Rogers continues:
So, how can Ken Mehlman redeem himself? I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for being the architect of the 2004 Bush reelection campaign. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for his role in developing strategy that resulted in George W. Bush threatening to veto ENDA or any bill containing hate crimes laws. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for the pressing of two Federal Marriage Amendments as political tools. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for developing the 72-hour strategy, using homophobic churches to become political arms of the GOP before Election Day.
We can be sure that GOProud and the Log Cabin Republicans are positively drooling over the prospect of welcoming Mehlman onto their boards of directors. VOMIT.

UPDATE: It's official. Here's Mehlman's statement.

"It's taken me 43 years to get comfortable with this part of my life. Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I've told my family, friends, former colleagues, and current colleagues, and they've been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that's made me a happier and better person. It's something I wish I had done years ago. I wish I was where I am today 20 years ago. The process of not being able to say who I am in public life was very difficult. No one else knew this except me. My family didn't know. My friends didn't know. Anyone who watched me knew I was a guy who was clearly uncomfortable with the topic."
Read the entire story on the Atlantic. Andy Towle is reporting that Mehlman has already agreed to chair a "major anti-Prop 8 fundraiser" for Americans For Equal Rights, Ted Olson and David Boies' outfit. Gee thanks, shitbag. That's like offering to help rebuild a house when YOU were the fucker that helped BURN IT DOWN.

MsTinkerbelly · 08-26-2010, 08:06 AM

From joemygod

Wednesday, August 25, 2010
FLASHBACK: 21 States Banned Same-Sex Marriage During Mehlman's Reign

During Ken Mehlman's reign as Dubya's campaign manager and afterwards during his tenure as chairman of the Republican National Committee, 21 states passed laws that banned same-sex marriage. Some of these laws made same-sex marriage unconstitutional, some made both civil unions and same-sex marriages unconstitutional. All of these anti-gay referenda took place from 2004-2006 and all of them were pushed by the GOP under Ken Mehlman (and with Karl Rove's strategic advice) as a ploy to ensure conservative turnout at the polls. If you live in any of the 21 states listed below, you can credit your second class citizenship, in part, to fellow homosexual Ken Mehlman.

Arkansas
Colorado
Georgia
Idaho
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Orgeon
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Wisconsin

Are you feeling very forgiving right now? ARE YOU?

MsTinkerbelly · 08-26-2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918

Ya know, for me (and this is obviously different for you), I try not to rush to judgement about folks. I don't see it on my to-do list to judge how/when someone comes out. Its not my story nor my life and I think we all know that some folks "get to the party later than others".

For me, it certainly doesn't hurt to have someone with his political connections on the side of equality. I get a kick out of thinking about how his good ole' boys in the RNC will have to think about their views of gays since Mehlman is reported to be the most powerful Republican to have come out. I'd also like to see his energies utilized in repealing DOMA, DADT moreso than I would for him to continue to have to explain ad nauseam why it took him so long to come out.

Perhaps it seems trite to some, but I'd rather have our numbers increasing. The more the merrier - and it would seem that someone such as Mehlman would have a better chance of their voice being heard - of having the capacity to effect change - moreso than average jo schmoe me.

I'm sure that Toughy has a different opinion on this and I don't want this to become a debate about our different views. I think that Mehlman's coming out and open support of marriage equality is a good thing.

Mehlman should be shunned. This is of course only my opinion, but I have to tell you most queer people are not going to welcome him as a peer.

I personally felt like vomiting when I saw his "coming out".

MsTinkerbelly · 08-26-2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918

Interesting wording: "man and a female person"

Wonder why it isnt male person and female person?

It says "male and female person" (as I read it), did I miss something?

christie · 08-26-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

It says "male and female person" (as I read it), did I miss something?

I mis-read. And I read it twice! That's what late night/end of the day will getcha! LOL - Thanks for clarifying.

BTW - I get your opinion on Mehlman and respect how you feel. My knee-jerk reaction is similar; however, I am choosing to take the position of how I wouldn't want others judging me.

I think we all have things in out pasts that we are not proud of - of doing harm/injustice to others. I would hope that we can believe that people are capable of change and that every day is an opportunity to live a worthy life.

I can't imagine how he can sleep at night, but, for me and me only, I sleep better not in wrapping up in the "he shoulda, coulda, woulda" and hope that he shall, can and will.

Jess · 08-26-2010, 08:52 AM

I have been pretty impressed that this thread has maintained a positive note even when sometimes we have faced set backs in this struggle.

I don't think taking help from a" late comer" is a bad thing. I recall a time when queer folk "shunned" late comers ( like women who had lived as a married heterosexual with kids and the picket fence). I think a part of our practicing a greater understanding an acceptance of one another needs to extend to this guy. MANY MANY queers led lives quite similar to this guy. Where do we end the hate and blaming? When do we stop being suspect of anyone who makes such a change in their lives?

Yep. I totally get the frustration, but I would much rather spend my energy fighting the Evangelical Churches ( of every religion) than fighting someone who has come out and now supports us. It isn't just old tired white Christians.
All of the Evangelical zealots would have us banned.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-mnf4Ti-Yk&feature=related"]YouTube- Gay Marriage Must Be Stopped!!..Rabbi Levin & Hispanic Evangelicals.[/nomedia]

08-19-2010, 09:19 PM	#484
leatherfaery Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: I like my nouns Pro Relationship Status: in deep Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: san diego Posts: 132 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 417 Thanked 152 Times in 64 Posts Rep Power: 26489	Protests in san diego http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...L&type=science

08-24-2010, 08:00 AM	#486
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	Barack Obama and Meg Whitman ... Two Religious Peas in a Pod? http://gayrights.change.org/blog/vie..._peas_in_a_pod

08-24-2010, 01:00 PM	#487
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	Marriage equality: students can lead the way http://www.freedomtomarry.org/blog/e...n-lead-the-way

08-25-2010, 03:19 PM	#488
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	joemygod WYOMING: Gay Couple Challenges Ban On Same-Sex Marriage A young gay couple has filed a federal court challenge to the constitutionality of Wyoming's ban on same-sex marriage. So far, they are representing themselves. The lawsuit, filed Aug. 13 by David Shupe-Roderick, 25, and Ryan W. Dupree, 21, is the first legal challenge in recent memory to Wyoming’s law defining marriage as being a contract solely “between a male and a female person.” The couple, who are representing themselves, filed the lawsuit after the Laramie County Clerk's Office refused three times to issue them a marriage license. That's unequal treatment, they said, and they're asking U.S. District Judge Alan B. Johnson to stop the state from enforcing any laws that block gays and lesbians from access to civil marriage. “We determined that a lawsuit was the only possible way for them to get to recognize us as people,” Shupe-Roderick said. “I think it’s time that Wyoming lives up to its title. You know they call themselves the Equality State? Well, they’re not so equal.” The plaintiffs say they cannot afford an attorney and can't find one to take their case for free. They add that so far they are relying on knowledge one of them acquired while interning for the ACLU

08-26-2010, 05:19 AM	#490
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	an advocate in the GOP? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-im-gay/62065/

08-19-2010, 08:30 PM	#483
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,095 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Proposition 8 Lawsuit

08-23-2010, 04:58 PM	#485
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,095 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	What Does Obama Really Think About Gay Marriage? A Telling Timeline. James Downie In the gay marriage debate, President Obama says that he supports civil unions for same-sex couples. But has this always been his view? A look back at his statements on gay marriage, from his days as a state senate candidate until his time in the White House, suggests that Obama's public stance has shifted notably: 1996: In response to a questionnaire from Outlines newspaper (now part of Windy City Times), Obama, a candidate for the Illinois state senate seat representing the wealthy Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago, writes, “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages." Eight years later, in a letter to Windy City Times, Obama would say that he opposed the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) of 1996, calling it “an effort to demonize people for political advantage” that should be repealed. 1998: Responding to an Illinois State Legislative National Political Awareness Test: “Q: Do you believe that the Illinois government should recognize same-sex marriages? A: Undecided.” 2004: In an interview with Windy City Times, Obama mentions the religious dimension of the gay marriage debate, says he supports civil unions, and indicates that his stance is dictated in large part by political strategy: Obama: I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot of voters, has a religious connotation. I know that's true in the African-American community, for example. And if you asked people, 'should gay and lesbian people have the same rights to transfer property, and visit hospitals, and et cetera,' they would say, 'absolutely.' And then if you talk about, 'should they get married?', then suddenly… WCT: There are more than 1,000 federal benefits that come with marriage. Looking back in the 1960s and inter-racial marriage, the polls showed people against that as well. Obama: Since I'm a product of an interracial marriage, I'm very keenly aware of ... WCT: But you think, strategically, gay marriage isn't going to happen so you won't support it at this time? Obama: What I'm saying is that strategically, I think we can get civil unions passed. I think we can get SB 101 [which would add “sexual orientation” to Illinois’s non-discrimination laws] passed. I think that to the extent that we can get the rights, I'm less concerned about the name.” 2006: In his bestseller, The Audacity of Hope, Obama, now a U.S. senator, explains his support for civil unions, again mentioning religion and noting the strategic problems that the push for gay marriage poses: For many practicing Christians, the inability to compromise may apply to gay marriage. I find such a position troublesome, particularly in a society in which Christian men and women have been known to engage in adultery or other violations of their faith without civil penalty. I believe that American society can choose to carve out a special place for the union of a man and a woman as the unit of child rearing most common to every culture. I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights no such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex—nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount. …The heightened focus on marriage is a distraction from other, attainable measures to prevent discrimination and gays and lesbians. (pp. 222-3) July 2007: At the CNN/YouTube Democratic primary debate in Charleston, South Carolina, Obama discusses interracial versus gay marriage and says that it should be up to individual religions whether they recognize civil unions as marriages: Anderson Cooper: Senator Obama, the laws banning interracial marriage in the United States were ruled unconstitutional in 1967. What is the difference between a ban on interracial marriage and a ban on gay marriage? Obama: Well, I think that it is important to pick up on something that was said earlier by both Dennis [Kucinich] and by Bill [Richardson], and that is that we've got to make sure that everybody is equal under the law. And the civil unions that I proposed would be equivalent in terms of making sure that all the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for same-sex couples as well as for heterosexual couples. Now, with respect to marriage, it's my belief that it's up to the individual denominations to make a decision as to whether they want to recognize marriage or not. But in terms of, you know, the rights of people to transfer property, to have hospital visitation, all those critical civil rights that are conferred by our government, those should be equal. August 2007: At the Human Rights Campaign/Logo gay issues debate, also during the Democratic primaries, Obama emphasizes the religious importance of the term “marriage” and explains why civil unions aren’t discriminatory: Q: If you were back in the Illinois legislature where you served and the issue of civil marriage came before you, how would you have voted on that? A: My view is that we should try to disentangle what has historically been the issue of the word “marriage,” which has religious connotations to some people, from the civil rights that are given to couples, in terms of hospital visitation, in terms of whether or not they can transfer property or Social Security benefits and so forth. So it depends on how the bill would’ve come up. I would’ve supported and would continue to support a civil union that provides all the benefits that are available for a legally sanctioned marriage. And it is then, as I said, up to religious denominations to make a determination as to whether they want to recognize that as marriage or not. Q: On the grounds of civil marriage, can you see to our community where [your stance of separating gay rights from the word “marriage”] comes across as sounding like “separate but equal”? A: Look, when my parents got married in 1961, it would have been illegal for them to be married in a number of states in the South. So obviously, this is something that I understand intimately, it’s something that I care about. But if I were advising the civil rights movement back in 1961 about its approach to civil rights, I would have probably said it’s less important that we focus on an anti-miscegenation law than we focus on a voting rights law and a non-discrimination and employment law and all the legal rights that are conferred by the state. Now, it’s not for me to suggest that you shouldn’t be troubled by these issues. But my job as president is going to be to make sure that the legal rights that have consequences on a day to day basis for loving same sex couples all across the country. 2008: In an interview with MTV, Obama says he opposes Prop 8, but also gay marriage. Civil unions, the candidate says, are sufficient: I have stated my opposition to [Prop 8]. I think it is unnecessary. I believe that marriage is between a man and woman and I am not in favor of gay marriage, but when you're playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that that is not what America is about. Usually constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them. What I believe is that if we have strong civil unions out there that provide legal rights to same-sex couples that they can visit each other in the hospital if they get sick, that they can transfer property to each other. If they've got benefits, they can make sure those benefits apply to their partners. I think that is the direction we need to go. 2010: After the Perry decision, which struck down Prop 8, the White House releases this statement: “The president has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory. He will continue to promote equality for LGBT Americans." Meanwhile, White House senior adviser David Axelrod tells MSNBC that Obama "does oppose same-sex marriage, but he supports equality for gay and lesbian couples. … He supports civil unions. That’s been his position throughout. So nothing has changed."

08-26-2010, 08:02 AM	#494
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	joemygod FLASHBACK: Mehlman Supports 2005 Federal Marriage Amendment In January 2005, GOP Sen. Wayne Allard (CO) introduced the Marriage Protection Amendment (a verbatim restating of the earlier failed Federal Management Amendment) with 21 Senate GOP co-sponsors. Later that year the bill was approved for review by the full Senate Judiciary Committee. Newly appointed RNC chair Ken Mehlman gave the bill his full support to reporters at an Ohio GOP fundraiser that March. During his Akron remarks, Mehlman put forth political and policy statements often viewed as anti-gay. “Republicans are for government that stands on the side of marriage,” he said, “and on the side of strong families.” After the dinner, he was asked by a reporter about the GOP’s support for the so-called Marriage Protection Amendment, introduced in the House last week by Rep. Dan Lundgren of California. Mehlman made it clear that he supports the amendment. “I don’t think it’s anti-gay,” said Mehlman. “I don’t think the intent is to be anti-anything.” Members of the Cleveland Log Cabin Republicans attending the dinner expressed disappointment that Mehlman evaded questions about his sexuality. "He almost said it," one pouted. The above-linked story notes no such LCR regret about Mehlman's support for permanently enshrining anti-gay legislation in the motherfucking federal Constitution.

08-26-2010, 08:04 AM	#495
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	joemygod Repulsive Anti-Gay Quisling Homophobic Scumbag Asshat Closeted Former RNC Chair Ken Mehlman Has Come Out Maybe the $4M loft he bought in gay gay gay Chelsea this summer did (or more likely, brought) the trick, as Mike Rogers reports today that repulsive 2004 Dubya campaign manager and former RNC chairman Ken Mehlman is about to come out. [UPDATE: It's official. See update at the bottom of this post.] In 2004 Steve Schmidt (then the Republican National Convention spokesman and later the McCain campaign's senior strategist) lied to me when I asked him point blank about Mehlman. "Ken Mehlman is not gay," he proclaimed. In 2006, Mehlman told the New York Daily News, "I am not gay, but those stories did a number on my dating life for six months." It's so nice to be proven right, me that is, not Ken. If this move doesn't call for a Roy Cohn Award, I don't know what does. Ken Mehlman is horridly homophobic and no matter how orchestrated his coming out is, our community should hold him accountable for his past. As we saw with Jim McGreevy, many gay leaders will attempt to elbow themselves to the front of the line to say on cable TV how wonderful it is that Ken is now being honest with the American people. Someone will be quoted in the New York Times saying something like, "After so many years of working for the Republicans, it's wonderful to see Ken be true to himself." Or perhaps you'll read a quote in the Washington Post about how "every gay person is on their own personal journey and we are happy Ken has decided to be so open about his personal struggle." Next up will come the book, then the TV shows, and of course the speaking tour. I'll only buy it if he is really sorry. Mehlman's crimes against his own people are motherfucking LEGION. Mike Rogers continues: So, how can Ken Mehlman redeem himself? I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for being the architect of the 2004 Bush reelection campaign. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for his role in developing strategy that resulted in George W. Bush threatening to veto ENDA or any bill containing hate crimes laws. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for the pressing of two Federal Marriage Amendments as political tools. I want to hear from Ken that he is sorry for developing the 72-hour strategy, using homophobic churches to become political arms of the GOP before Election Day. We can be sure that GOProud and the Log Cabin Republicans are positively drooling over the prospect of welcoming Mehlman onto their boards of directors. VOMIT. UPDATE: It's official. Here's Mehlman's statement. "It's taken me 43 years to get comfortable with this part of my life. Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I've told my family, friends, former colleagues, and current colleagues, and they've been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that's made me a happier and better person. It's something I wish I had done years ago. I wish I was where I am today 20 years ago. The process of not being able to say who I am in public life was very difficult. No one else knew this except me. My family didn't know. My friends didn't know. Anyone who watched me knew I was a guy who was clearly uncomfortable with the topic." Read the entire story on the Atlantic. Andy Towle is reporting that Mehlman has already agreed to chair a "major anti-Prop 8 fundraiser" for Americans For Equal Rights, Ted Olson and David Boies' outfit. Gee thanks, shitbag. That's like offering to help rebuild a house when YOU were the fucker that helped BURN IT DOWN.

08-26-2010, 08:06 AM	#496
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	Biggest asshat to come out yet From joemygod Wednesday, August 25, 2010 FLASHBACK: 21 States Banned Same-Sex Marriage During Mehlman's Reign During Ken Mehlman's reign as Dubya's campaign manager and afterwards during his tenure as chairman of the Republican National Committee, 21 states passed laws that banned same-sex marriage. Some of these laws made same-sex marriage unconstitutional, some made both civil unions and same-sex marriages unconstitutional. All of these anti-gay referenda took place from 2004-2006 and all of them were pushed by the GOP under Ken Mehlman (and with Karl Rove's strategic advice) as a ploy to ensure conservative turnout at the polls. If you live in any of the 21 states listed below, you can credit your second class citizenship, in part, to fellow homosexual Ken Mehlman. Arkansas Colorado Georgia Idaho Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Mississippi Missouri Montana North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Orgeon South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Virginia Wisconsin Are you feeling very forgiving right now? ARE YOU?

08-26-2010, 08:52 AM	#500
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	I have been pretty impressed that this thread has maintained a positive note even when sometimes we have faced set backs in this struggle. I don't think taking help from a" late comer" is a bad thing. I recall a time when queer folk "shunned" late comers ( like women who had lived as a married heterosexual with kids and the picket fence). I think a part of our practicing a greater understanding an acceptance of one another needs to extend to this guy. MANY MANY queers led lives quite similar to this guy. Where do we end the hate and blaming? When do we stop being suspect of anyone who makes such a change in their lives? Yep. I totally get the frustration, but I would much rather spend my energy fighting the Evangelical Churches ( of every religion) than fighting someone who has come out and now supports us. It isn't just old tired white Christians. All of the Evangelical zealots would have us banned. [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-mnf4Ti-Yk&feature=related"]YouTube- Gay Marriage Must Be Stopped!!..Rabbi Levin & Hispanic Evangelicals.[/nomedia]