Religious Holidays in Public Schools

[SassyLeo]

I was listening to OPB (NPR) today and they had a segment on school holidays. In NY, there is a large Muslim population and they seek to add 2 of the Muslim holidays to the school calendar.

Apparently the city schools already have Jewish holidays (my schools did not, so I went to school) in addition to the "traditional" Christian holidays.

They have 11 observed holidays on the school calendar and none are Muslim - or any other religion aside from Jewish & Christian.

What do you think?

[SassyLeo]

I'm on the fence between -be more inclusive- and -remove all holidays-

I absolutely support inclusivity AND I also think, how many religions are there in the world that could potentially be incorporated? And does that push us further into the un-separation of church and state?

[Gayla]

When I was a kid, I was always jealous of everyone that celebrated things that weren't scheduled holidays because it meant they got extra days off!

I think it would be interesting to see something completely new implemented where each student, and staff member, got a certain number of days off and could use them as they choose. Similar to how many employers give PTO as opposed to holidays/sick leave. Of course, that would be a scheduling nightmare for staff coverage but it would be interesting.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by gayla

When I was a kid, I was always jealous of everyone that celebrated things that weren't scheduled holidays because it meant they got extra days off!

I think it would be interesting to see something completely new implemented where each student, and staff member, got a certain number of days off and could use them as they choose. Similar to how many employers give PTO as opposed to holidays/sick leave. Of course, that would be a scheduling nightmare for staff coverage but it would be interesting.

This is sort of what I was thinking. Just have "holidays" not necessarily related to any religion, like "spring break", but have a few days randomly throughout the year for use of holidays... of course, then they wouldn't be on the specific day, like Yom Kippur or Ramadan, etc.

[Corkey]

I think schools shouldn't have religious holidays and should take all of them out of the school calendars. Separation of church and state. Yes I believed this as a kid.

[christie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think schools shouldn't have religious holidays and should take all of them out of the school calendars. Separation of church and state. Yes I believed this as a kid.

I agree with you, Corkey. I have never understood why religious (read: Christian) holidays were a part of a school calendar, especially with school prayer out the window.

This piqued my interest and I went to check Bratboy's high school calendar for the 10-11 year - 24 school holidays with two being religious. Good Friday and Easter Monday.

Easter Monday?!?!?!? Until we moved to smalltown, BFE VA, I had never HEARD of "Easter Monday." Last year, the mominlaw planned a big family shindig... on Easter Monday. Imagine her shock and awe that my company didn't recognize it AND that I had never even fathomed such a thing. The look on her face was one who had just seen the debil herself

[Gayla]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

This is sort of what I was thinking. Just have "holidays" not necessarily related to any religion, like "spring break", but have a few days randomly throughout the year for use of holidays... of course, then they wouldn't be on the specific day, like Yom Kippur or Ramadan, etc.

I think you would have to keep in the major christian holidays, if the majority of students are christian, like christmas, etc. but then each student has a pool they can use for their own individual holidays.

I attended public school so I don't really know much about private/religious school. I would assume that a private school would get to set their own holidays but do they also recognize the usual major holidays. Even the one's based outside their beliefs?

OK, that was my probably bad attempt at PC-ly asking if like Jewish schools take a "winter break" that includes Christmas and New Year's just because they are recognized as national holidays in addition to being religious holidays?

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by gayla

I think you would have to keep in the major christian holidays, if the majority of students are christian, like christmas, etc. but then each student has a pool they can use for their own individual holidays.

I attended public school so I don't really know much about private/religious school. I would assume that a private school would get to set their own holidays but do they also recognize the usual major holidays. Even the one's based outside their beliefs?

OK, that was my probably bad attempt at PC-ly asking if like Jewish schools take a "winter break" that includes Christmas and New Year's just because they are recognized as national holidays in addition to being religious holidays?

Well as an example: Portland Jewish Academy takes a winter break in December for about 2 weeks, but it is not because of Christmas, it is "winter break". Work/school are actually permitted during Chanukah, but not Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, etc. which are in September and don't coincide with any Christian holiday. Parts of Passover are not really permitted for work or school, but Easter falls on a Sunday and kids don't normally get time off for that...more like "spring break" which is not always right after Easter.

[AtLast]

Since I doubt that schools will not take away holidays, I would say then other religious holidays should be included. However, I don’t think that any religious holiday should be honored in public schools.

I don't know why breaks can't just be called Winter, Spring Breaks, or Mid-Term, etc. It would be best to have these just sorted into the days allowed off in public school calendars and not based upon the holiday breaks utilized now, like Christmas or Easter.

The holidays that are represented by now are Christian and that does leave out other religions (or non-religious people). The public schools in the US are part of a federal education department, thus, ought to align with Separation of Church and State in the Constitution.

I just feel that any religious (or spiritual, for that matter) honoring of a holiday is a private matter for families to decide upon. Public schools are secular institutions.

If we can make adjustments to things like year-around school terms, we can change this!

[cane]

Where I live about 1/3 of the population are muslims. We don't have any official muslim holidays but the families that celebrate holidays of any religion that isn't christianity usually just go right ahead and keep their kids out of school, and for the most part schools are o.k. with that.

Futher on, when it comes to ramadan for example, some schools have delayed the start of the day to accomodate the kids that can not eat during the day and who usually, during that time, has been up very late in the night. Just one example.

Personally I think it's a beautiful thing when cultures are trying to come together like this so I would welcome any change...

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by cane

Where I live about 1/3 of the population are muslims. We don't have any official muslim holidays but the families that celebrate holidays of any religion that isn't christianity usually just go right ahead and keep their kids out of school, and for the most part schools are o.k. with that.

Futher on, when it comes to ramadan for example, some schools have delayed the start of the day to accomodate the kids that can not eat during the day and who usually, during that time, has been up very late in the night. Just one example.

Personally I think it's a beautiful thing when cultures are trying to come together like this so I would welcome any change...

Are the kids required to take sick days for being out of school? I hope they wouldn't be...

[cane]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Are the kids required to take sick days for being out of school? I hope they wouldn't be...

No sick days, since they are not sick, but this is not an official term of action, it's just something the teachers has begun to do/let happen in all fairness.

But yes, a limited number of days for each student would maybe be a good idea, but of course tricky when it comes to scheduling

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

I was listening to OPB (NPR) today and they had a segment on school holidays. In NY, there is a large Muslim population and they seek to add 2 of the Muslim holidays to the school calendar.

Apparently the city schools already have Jewish holidays (my schools did not, so I went to school) in addition to the "traditional" Christian holidays.

They have 11 observed holidays on the school calendar and none are Muslim - or any other religion aside from Jewish & Christian.

What do you think?

Hi Sassy!

I read the article that you linked us to. One of the things I found interesting was how they framed the message - kind of like a dichotomy, two sided story (re: the choice between religion and school).

I think the issue, as it's framed in the article, seems problematic by nature in that, to me, preference for type of education or religion seems to be two separate subjects and to me, again, it's hard to integrate that particular stream of thought in productive ways that enhances life for those who dwell in particular communities.

I wonder if there are any social models out there (maybe in Europe?) that address community needs in a way that allow members of the community to set up a way for the school year that plans for and incorporates holiday time to observe particular religious/spiritual practices?

I don't know how feasible it is, but I wonder if at a district level (for instance, like here in the PDX metro area), schools could have the power to amend or adopt or set up a particular schedule that meets the needs of members of the community that access shared set of resources and sets of social/religious beliefs???

I think the conversation concerning your article reflects the many ways the social dilemmas that communities face, as communities become more diverse: for example, social policy that's currently utilized anywhere is a herculian task to address- due to variances of particular cultures clustering in communities in any place you could throw a dart on the map. I think one of the things that makes it hard to unravel or problem solve this issue is that we (the general "we") tend to want to distill issues into singular equations that are simpler to solve and it's usually pretty difficult to reduce it to those particular terms because of the social complexity that makes up each type of community.

I don't know if what I've written about seems helpful (I'm not fully awake yet either) but it's what came to my mind in thinking about your article and I hope it adds to the conversation here!

ps/ I couldn't vote on your poll either because the options seem to not have a wide enough range for me to participate - so my post here is in lieu of a poll vote as "other" but not how it's framed in the poll.

[Corkey]

In Colorado there is a charter school that addresses the community concerns of including pagan and Native rights. This school is still going strong.
Most of the charter schools I've known anything about are much more responsive to parents concerns. I remember there was a charter school in California that was started by the muslim community, but because of 911 they have been harassed by the state for the teachers credentials.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Corkey

In Colorado there is a charter school that addresses the community concerns of including pagan and Native rights. This school is still going strong.
Most of the charter schools I've known anything about are much more responsive to parents concerns. I remember there was a charter school in California that was started by the muslim community, but because of 911 they have been harassed by the state for the teachers credentials.

Like the teachers at that school had anything to do with 911.

Very sad.

Shows zero division of church and state.

[Jess]

Should get at least a week off for Festivus!

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Jess

Should get at least a week off for Festivus!

Make it a month that we get too and I'm in!

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Come to our neck of the woods and you have businesses recognizing Easter Monday. *eyeroll* I'm not certain why its a holiday, but it is. Guess that stone rolling on Easter Sunday requires recuperation time!

(No offense to any who might celebrate Easter Monday, but with my hellfire and brimstone upbringing in the Southern Baptist Convention, this wasn't ever mentioned)

I never heard of Easter Monday. Here we take off from Weds to Sunday, but never Monday. Most people take the entire week as most of their children are out of school during that time. Learn something new every day, Easter Monday We also call Friday, Holy Friday, not Good Friday, I never understood why it was called Good Friday in the US.

Originally Posted by Corkey

I don't think I've ever herd of Thanksgiving being a religious holiday. It is a white mans holiday to celebrate the population surviving with the help of the Native people.

The original concept of Thanksgiving was purely religious (Puritans). Of course like many other things, the original concept has developed into something else. To me, it is a day to spend with Family.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

I never heard of Easter Monday. Here we take off from Weds to Sunday, but never Monday. Most people take the entire week as most of their children are out of school during that time. Learn something new every day, Easter Monday We also call Friday, Holy Friday, not Good Friday, I never understood why it was called Good Friday in the US.



The original concept of Thanksgiving was purely religious (Puritans). Of course like many other things, the original concept has developed into something else. To me, it is a day to spend with Family.

LOL not a puritan.

[little man]

i think that since schools are supposed to be educating kids to move on out into the world, it should be structured more like the "real world". specific schedules, year round, planning your vacations. deadlines and responsibilities...and consequences for not meeting them.

i think too much is put on the shoulders of the teachers, when kids refuse to learn or live up to the requirements of getting educated. these young folks need to learn about responsibility and accountability somewhere. i think that by restructuring the school system, that can be managed.

now that my rant is over...the holidays need to be handled just like they would be on any job. i think shift "work" might be also be an option for those kids (like my niece) who would rather be up all night and sleep all day.

ok, i'm done now.