Something I just noticed..the very logo of the site

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

I think it has the potential to morph into something a bit bigger than the logo (which I personally adore). And it is a topic that traditionally we have always wandered back to.

Not the logo.
The binary thing.

I am the F.

[*Anya*]

Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar.

I absolutely love pink. It is my favorite color!

I decided to approach this issue differently, wondering if I loved pink for reasons other than sexism and the fact that I own mostly pink articles of clothing (including bras and panties).

This is only one of several studies that I found that present the findings regarding the how and why of possible preference for pink among most (please note that I said most before you write to me that you, personally, hate pink) women.

I found it fascinating. Oh and one of the researchers real name is Anya, so I really liked the findings.

Some preferences are biological in basis, not everything is unconscious sexism.

The flowing, curvey "f"? I would have to give that one some thought. Hey! I like it before you say anything! Trying to I inject some levity here!



ScienceDaily (Aug. 22, 2007) — A study in Current Biology reports some of the first conclusive evidence in support of the long-held notion that men and women differ when it comes to their favorite colors. Indeed, the researchers found that women really do prefer pink--or at least a redder shade of blue--than men do.

"Although we expected to find sex differences, we were surprised at how robust they were, given the simplicity of our test," said Anya Hurlbert of Newcastle University, UK. In the test, young adult men and women were asked to select, as rapidly as possible, their preferred color from each of a series of paired, colored rectangles.

The universal favorite color for all people appears to be blue, they found. "On top of that, females have a preference for the red end of the red-green axis, and this shifts their color preference slightly away from blue towards red, which tends to make pinks and lilacs the most preferred colors in comparison with others," she said.

Overall, the differences between men and women were clear enough that'll the seasoned researchers can now usually predict the sex of a participant based on their favorite-color profile.

To begin to address whether sex differences in color preference depend more on biology or culture, the researchers tested a small group of Chinese people amongst the other 171 British Caucasian study participants. The results among the Chinese were similar, Hurlbert said, strengthening the idea that the sex differences might be biological. The explanation might go back to humans' hunter-gatherer days, when women--the primary gatherers--would have benefited from an ability to key in on ripe, red fruits.

"Evolution may have driven females to prefer reddish colors--reddish fruits, healthy, reddish faces," Hurlbert said. "Culture may exploit and compound this natural female preference."

She said another way to separate "nature versus nurture" when it comes to favorite colors will be to test the preferences of infants. The researchers have plans to modify the color-choice test for use in young babies and hope to have some answers on that front soon.

About the universal preference for blue, "I can only speculate," said Hurlbert. "I would favor evolutionary arguments again here. Going back to our 'savannah' days, we would have a natural preference for a clear blue sky, because it signaled good weather. Clear blue also signals a good water source."

The researchers include Anya C. Hurlbert and Yazhu Ling of Newcastle Univesity in Newcastle upon Tyne,UK.

References

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0820120720.htm
Hurlbert and Ling: "Biological components of sex differences in colour preference." Publishing in Current Biology, 21 August 2007, R623-625.

[Arwen]

The whole binary color thing isn't that old, socially speaking. It only goes back to the late 19th/ early 20th century.

It used to be that we dressed our children in the same type outfit until they were a certain age.

And we didn't judge a child's sex by the color of the clothing. Shocking, I know.

Here's an interesting article on this subject from the Smithsonian.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by lillith

Ok, I am a bit overtired, so if my perception is off or I am reading too much into the details, my apologies. Here is what I see and how it all seems to work:

One (possibility A): the banner combined with the logo looks like a microphone which can indicate that everyone here is allowed, and even encouraged to use their voice. Because of the very nature of what a microphone does, it lends to the idea our voices are important, and perhaps some need a little extra amplification.

One (possibility B): the banner combined with the logo looks like a lollipop which can indicate that all sorts of flavors exists in our universe. It also give the idea that this is a "sweet" place to be.

Two: if you allow your eyes to unfocus while looking at the surrounding circles, you might be able to see that these outer circles actually blend into a multi-structure of varying colors. Again, this gives the impression that no one color dominates over the others. Granted, there are three simple colors, the melding of the three give a rich and lively appearance.

Three: the black background of the circle not only makes the colors pop more, it reminds me of a kind of heaviness, perhaps depth that everyone holds. It is almost like a blackhole without the sucking. It seems to beg each of us to look within to find that place that does not contain any binaries; just regular people with regular lives, but at the same time, the letters force us to understand that not a single one of us is regular. We are all fantastic with light and love to give to the world.

Four: the "B" does not seem basic. It is not the typical Times New Roman or Arial font that we see everyday. It is bolder, riskier. That does not mean that all butches by nature are bolder or riskier, it is just a letter in this way. However, because it is part of the b/f dynamic, the stray away from the more acceptable font can show us that we are original, and capable of being dynamic. The "f" is a almost floral without being overdone. Many femmes I know (myself included) are not physically high maintenance, and it seems apt that this "f" represents us. It is pretty, but not overly so. Now as for the coloring, I adore the fact the "b" and "p" are green. Here again, we stray away from mainstream ideas of what is supposed to be as opposed to what is. The pink is not soft and baby-like. It is strong, assertive, commanding attention. The combination of the colors is playful, cheerful. I do not believe that anything about the logo or banner is anyway suggesting hetero-normative values in an American societal way.

I LOVED this entire post.

Lillith! You have really illustrated how people can interpret the visual on the logo and I LOVED the idea of it representing a microphone so that everyone has a voice!

[*Anya*]

I couldn't decide what to wear today but all this discussion helped!

Today: pink bra/panties, pink T-shirt, pink sweater, pink pearl necklace and matching earrings!

Thanks everyone!

Have a great day

[jac]

Well, I won't deny it, I was curious and I did wonder. This is the OCD in me but I never worried over it enough to get all intense with it. I appreciate the hard work that goes on behind the scenes of a webiste. Of this website. I have a couple of close friends who are programmers and it's intense. I myself played around with some prgramming things and well, it's intense. I respect the site, the creators of it... but really it was just a thread that I thought was fun to chit chat about... nothing more. I wasn't really reading into the whys and why nots of the creation of it all. Speaking for self, just curious.

The pink and greens actually make me think of The General's bedroom... OMG that little girl is amazingly in love with her colors!!

Ahahahaaaaaa at the blue and orange not being the choice... I can see why. :lol

Thanks for providing a safe place to play... and play I will. Now where's my kool aide and toys...???

[starryeyes]

I love the logo. It looks like a combination of bold and soft which is a perfect representation of what butch femme is to me in my world (which is not everyone else's, yes, I understand) And, it's hunter green and pink... Ummm sexy!!! :-D

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by stone4play

Thanks for providing a safe place to play... and play I will. Now where's my kool aide and toys...???

These things can be found in The Littles and BG threads!

[Abigail Crabby]

I picked my current avatar to match the logo

I love the logo, especially the pink f for femme.......just cuz

I remember vaguely the old logo - love this one and all that it stands for...

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by guihong

Hi, everyone:

Before I begin, I want to be very clear that: 1) this is not a criticism of Medusa and Jack, far from it; 2) I am not trying to start shit (well, a civil discussion is always OK ); and 3) I'm not asking for any changes to the site, as that would be a programmer's nightmare.

Recently there's been some heated threads, and threads gone awry due to a sexist comment or so. And as always on a site like this, there's usually a heavy thread about sexism or oppression.

One "theme" that's discussed often here is "Butches need to be like x, y and z" and "Femmes need to be a, b and c", usually superficial stuff. Closely related is "Femmes want butches who do e, f and g" and "Butches want femmes who do k, l, and m". By and large, whenever that sort of thing pops up, I think we do a pretty good job of handling it.

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.


That's why I just noticed the logo of the site-that "butch" is in heavy black writing, sort of "plain", almost, and "femme" is in pretty pink and really curvasive writing. We've just had several threads about how not every butch is masculine or even tomboyish, and I'm a prime example of a "femme" who wouldn't be caught dead being girly and pink.

I guess I'm just surprised and even a bit amused that the logo itself is very "binary". I am NOT trying to offend or begin a huge fight, but I just felt I wanted to speak out and say "Hey, did anyone else see this?"

hey guihong! kudos for jumping into the deep end of the "civil discussion" pool! soooooo, i sorta understand what you're trying to say and i know it's not supposed to be about anything except the logo. i also know that what you say is your responsibility and that what you're *not* responsible for is what anyone else understands. i have my .03 cents worth of course but i wanted to start out by saying i get that you're trying to create discussion about something you had curiosity about and not anything else. here comes my (highlight, underline, bold, flashing gold stars, warning lights, pixie dust, and some of those flight line people with the vests and orange coney thingys that they wave around to guide planes into position) --> OPINION <--

first, *we* arent sorting "everyone" into butch and femme categories. i wont speak to the reasons for creation of The Planet (that sounds very cosmic as i reread it) because i wasnt a part of it. but if you're going to speak for the greater membership by using the word "we" then i'd like the opportunity, as a part of that group, to say that maybe "we" are here to create and provide a sense of community as people who recognize, understand and acknowledge non-compliant identities of all kinds without demanding that people justify who they are inside of some sort of culturally approved "gay" understanding. we dont all use the words "butch" or "femme" as our own ID words but *i* think people here recognize, (attempt to) understand, and acknowledge those words and the myriad of things they could mean as valid, positive, healthy, beautiful, sumptuous, powerful, etc. in *my opinion*, people who understand that gender is not static, or even 100% definable, are more likely to be equally supportive and acknowledging of every other expression of gender. sometimes i dont even think BFP is about identity as much as it is about a gender fluid *dynamic*. after all, the words "butch" and "femme" describe a whole toy box of things that has nothing to do with a specific community of people and everything to do with simply being human.

second, it's been *my* experience that "dealing with everyone as an individual" happens all the time here. when it doesnt the community is quick to either provide education for honest ignorance or to refuse to consent to oppression all through open dialogue. i agree that no one is here to be labeled or to be sorted. we're not pieces of mail.

third, if we need to talk labels then i want to go on record as saying that i dont want to be labeled "gay". as a femme who has encountered discrimination from inside the "gay" community and been verbally vilified more than once by members of the "gay" community (in two separate cities yet!) because i "perpetuate hetero-power by playing girl" , i come here because i want to take up space in the world as the femme that i am, whatever that might be today, without encountering someone who seems to think it's ok to demand that i justify myself. i dont give a flip what anyone else calls themselves as long as they're happy with themselves and cue me in about their preferred pronouns. i damn well expect equal treatment. i dont ID as "gay". i dont ID as a "lesbian" and on my crabbier days i really dont want support as part of the larger "gay" community while it continues to represent itself as fairly oppressive when confronted with a non-compliant queer femme.

fourth, this discussion is a version of the complaint about reverse discrimination conversation. a privileged person complains that they shouldnt be excluded from the benefits afforded to a minority group member by an organization or institution that specifically works to serve the underserved without understanding that the point behind such services is to provide access to things that the privileged person already has in abundance. there are skads of "gay" sites. why should a site that is focused on a specific dynamic try to be more like them? (in no way implying that *you* feel privileged, behave in a privileged manner, are discriminatory in your behavior or other sucky things. i'm just drawing the correlation. is that the right word? correlation? "grammar mavin to aisle three for a vocab check please!")

fifth, the logo isnt binary. it's designed to work with the background, graphics, home page and etc that it's part of and to show up well on a variety of computer monitors and probably to not be buttassugly. things arent binary. thinking is binary.

sixth, aside from the mathematics thingy which makes my eyeballs go numb so i try not to think about it the word "binary" actually means "consisting of, indicating, or involving two" and not opposite. so maybe we're using the wrong word when it comes down to it.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Logos are by necessity, a boiled-down synthesis of what an organization represents.

Choices are made in their design, of elements that are more simplified than in other contexts, for easy and quick visual recognition. In other words, they don't and can't reflect all the nuances of an organization's members or message.

I guess I'm saying, while I usually take symbols deadly seriously, I don't take them that seriously in some contexts. And no I'm not quite awake and I apologize for my Libran contradictory pov.

PS, "Orbit" is in pink italicized script, not just "f" and "femme," so ... oh hell I don't know what I was saying.

Okay now that I'm wide awake, and have read all the thoughtful posts in this thread, I'd like to say that I'm even more sure of what I said before, about logos.

I think this one is great. It's visually engaging, unique, and gives a nod to the wonderful binary nature of butch-femme identity that the site welcomes, while providing something fresh (green, not blue, for example) that reflects the diversity of people here and the evolving community.

Personally I like the part of the logo where threads are all woven together into a circle, reflecting the "circle" of community we build through the threads we read and post on.

MGM (now Columbia Pictures) updated the lady holding the torch, that is part of their logo, in 1993, to represent a more modern notion of Woman. Culture changes, and the symbols we choose to represent that culture, change too.

Maybe in 50 years, the Butch Femme Planet logo will change and reflect whatever happens between now and then. What will that look like?

The question I'm more interested in is, What stays the same? I've been scolded more than once by cultural theorists for my essentialist views but I can't let go of the feeling that there is something essential that makes butch "butch" and femme "femme," and that's what I predict will remain present in the logo over time.

[nycfem]

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned but the "f" looks salmon colored to me, certainly not the stereotypical baby pink. Kind of like pink on fire, fierce.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned but the "f" looks salmon colored to me, certainly not the stereotypical baby pink. Kind of like pink on fire, fierce.

On my computer, it looks hot pink. Tssss! Yow! It's burnin' hot!

[girl_dee]

i noticed it right away. i just shrugged it off as me being picky. i appreciate the work that went into all of it, and the work to maintain it.

i was once accused as being a Top incognito because i use blue font.

i don't like pink, i like blue. That's it that's all.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned but the "f" looks salmon colored to me, certainly not the stereotypical baby pink. Kind of like pink on fire, fierce.

YES! I have always thought the same thing.

I appreciate the OP's critical thinking skills and applaud her for voicing thoughts that have made me think a bit harder in terms of the possibility of a traditional color schemata and its (potential for being a) social construct.

I have always loved the intertwining nature of the Plant's logo. While I personally don't love pink, I appreciate the vibrant nature of the chosen colors.

They pop and we as a community pop!

[apretty]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

That's why I just noticed the logo of the site-that "butch" is in heavy black writing, sort of "plain", almost, and "femme" is in pretty pink and really curvasive writing. We've just had several threads about how not every butch is masculine or even tomboyish, and I'm a prime example of a "femme" who wouldn't be caught dead being girly and pink.

1. I think if you think that being butch or femme is about being boxed into a grouping, then you probably don't get being (embracing) butch or femme and while that's OK, it also means that our logo is going to be "binary" to you, and mean something entirely different to the rest of us.

2. Also, and I don't think you realize this, but your choice of words Others our Butch and Femme identities.

3. The pink isn't nearly glittery enough for my taste--And where's the animal faux fur prints?! DAMN JUNE!

[Medusa]

We could have all been zombies:





...and this is where there is a collective sigh of gratitude for June!

[Arwen]

'Dusa. Girl. Tell me that's not really the original logo. Because I have a buttload of feminist rhetoric for you if it is. I mean...

P. to the S. Thank you, June. Thank you.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned but the "f" looks salmon colored to me, certainly not the stereotypical baby pink. Kind of like pink on fire, fierce.

It's a fierce pink to me too.

And ya know what? I've loved pink all my life. There are 47 shades of pink actually. Not all colors have that many. Brown for instance only has 22.

I write in pink on here. I have tons of pink clothes. It doesn't make me any more or any less a girly girl. It's not a binary thought or anything like that.

I liked pink before pink was cool.

Not because it has any association to being a girl, truth. It's just a beautiful color between red and the shade of white. It pops. It's pretty.

[Medusa]

I love our logo and I love the thought that went into it. And I love that we have a FREE graphic designer willing to slap the ugly into submission!


And Arwen, yes, that was the original concept and Juney was like "Um, NO." I didn't kick and scream too much though, I didn't figure you all would want to be symbolized by corpse arms and vampire nails!