advice plz - my father's alcoholism

[sylvie]

i hope this is the right place to post this, if there is a thread anywhere please let me know and i'll move it there.. i tried to look but didn't see anything... i apologize, still fairly new here and trying to find everything, draw me a map plz! *smiles*

My father is an alcoholic.

He started drinking heavily, when he was 16, he is turning 60 on April 5.
i have always known him to be a heavy drinker, i love my father - and have grown to see his behaviours as normal (sounds strange, maybe) but i'll explain.

This is extremely hard for me, so please be patient with me.. i am seeking advice, but also trying to understand for the sake of his health.

Just recently (couple of weeks ago) my stepmother called and let me know my father wasn't feeling well, it was my day off so i decided to walk to his place and check in on him. When i arrived, he was in maybe the worst state i've ever seen him in. i was scared, and stayed there and argued with him for an hour and a half to come to the hospital with me. His symptoms (that i could see) : his eyes were tinged bright yellow, and lined with blood, he was very restless, couldn't sit still at all and he was vomitting acid, which burned a hole in the top pallette of his mouth. He was having chest pains, and paranoia of some sort - he was seeing things, saying weird things that made no sense, he was convinced the people upstairs were dealing drugs and that i came in and was in danger that they'd seen me and the place was surrounded (that sort of thing) - he just wasn't himself.. i knew he had been drinking although my father & stepmother often try to hide it from me. (his last drink was 2 days prior, but drank so much it was still in his system i gather)

i get upset because of his health, his liver is shot, he's had 2 heartattacks, the doctors have warned him so so so many times, he's killing himself.

What i do know is:
1/ he won't quit unless HE wants to, he's an adult & makes his decisions.
2/ i've gotten upset at him before, and voiced my opinion about his health which angers him, he will stop talking to me, and i almost lost him then, so i know it's not worth making things bad between us for fear of losing him.
3/ i dont enable him as much as i used to, he knows i will not supply, lend money nor buy him alcohol - though i dont voice this everyday, it's been an understanding for some time. i do, however, help him cuz im scared of his health, i worry and go get him and bring him to the hospital if he's in bad shape - but i cant go there everyday and babysit him to be sure he's not drinking..(its just not possible, with my work hours and 2 teenagers to take care of)
4/ he has quit smoking, 5 years ago, and i'm proud of him for taking that step.
5/ i've lost my grandfather & my uncle to alcoholism, and they had suffered & were in a lot of pain, and my father mentions often he's scared the same will happen to him. (but then, he'll also say that he may as well die happy with a drink in hand).. sometimes it seems he wants to quit, sometimes, the opposite.

i'm his only child, but sometimes it feels like i've spent my life babysitting him, making sure he's okay, cleaning up his messes, bringing him to the hospital, etc. it can be frustrating and not in the sense that i'm mad but, i just get so worried sick about this and i'm scared, especially this time. from childhood til now, ive seen him do things out of his control because of alcohol, (fights, breaking things, drinking & driving, getting sick, falling into furniture, etc etc) typical things perhaps.. so they're not typical for most families, but it's felt typical to me cuz this is all i've known, with him.

The doctor met with me, at the hospital and sat me down and explained what they did for him this time.. His potassium was so low, they had to give him 3 doses, his heartrate was much too fast, so they had to slow it down, they had to use a machine to clean the acid out of him, and they had to clean the liver (they explained how, but for the life of me i cant remember now) .. the liver is in bad shape, i cant remember the exact percentage now, but it isn't good.

Then he said living with or taking care of a loved one who is an alcoholic is probably a lot harder than i was letting on, and suggested a group called Al Anon, because my father is in need of some tough love, bigtime. He's a heavy drinker and then he'll quit for a short time and then he'll binge drink - my stepmother is an enabler, she'll buy it for him (even if she doesnt like it) because its easier to keep him happy.. When i found my father, i cleaned out 7 whiskey and 2 vodka bottles, and this was downed in a 3-4 day period (there could have been more, he won't say)..

People tell me i shouldn't help him at all. i should let go entirely.. If i went home that day without bringing him for help, i never would have been able to sleep, wondering if he was okay, his heart is bad.. and not sure i could ever live with myself if something awful happened, and i had to live with that choice the rest of my life - is this a bad way of thinking? (to some, it is and i definitely need to understand this, because they feel i enable him to drink by doing this and this is what tears me up so much inside.

Has anyone had any experience with a such a group (Al Anon), has it been helpful, and i'm definitely willing and open to any suggestions, or experiences you have dealt with. this has really been so hard on me, all my life.. my childhood, teen years, young adult, etc and well, now i've done my best to hide this from my children but they're teenagers now and they see for themselves.

i guess, i'm just seeking advice, of any kind, because i'm frustrated, i feel like i'm a standstill, i dont have the ability to "save" him - and cant spend my days trying to, but just sitting by watching him do this to himself is tearing me apart.. i work crazy hours, i try to maintain my house and raise two teenagers and i'm alone in all this, needless to say i run myself down.

And i did watch Intervention, when i could.. my father wants nothing to do with getting help, i've tried.. and continue to suggest it, i'd go with him, i'd encourage him, but to date he wants no part of it and feels he can do it on his own, one day. i see situations on that show and the help they get and how it works sometimes and i get so hopeful, and i'm really growing to resent that show, lately.. i really, really feel i fail him, at doing what's right for him, or getting him help he needs.. (i do know HE needs to want help) - see my confusion?

thanks in advance to anyone who is willing & able to lend an ear, advice or anything at all ♥

[sweetfemme247]

my father is a alcoholic but he has never been this bad, I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

[sylvie]

thank you very much Diva, i appreciate that more than i can probably express..

[WolfyOne]

Sylvie, my dad was a functioning alcoholic as many police officers are. My oldest brother is an alcoholic and I did the tough love with him (we no longer speak). It runs in my family. When I was in my 20's I had a lot of misplaced anger, so a friend turned me on to ACOA(adult children of alcoholics) meetings. Believe it or not, they helped me deal with my family better back then. Sometimes it's easier to be with others in a group like that every week than try to do it on your own.

I'll keep you and your dad in my prayers.

I understand what you're going through. If your dad won't get help for himself, you should at least get help for you, so you can cope better.

[apretty]

i don't have personal experience but al anon is a great resource for people in your exact situation, please go and soon.

that said, if i came upon my father/anyone in the shape you describe i'd call 911 and let professionals deal with it, not because i don't care--quite the opposite, i care enough to not let him decide when he's going to go to the ER. (please understand that i'm not at all judging/criticizing the way you dealt with your father!!)

i understand that you've been dealing with this forever--that is so unfair... and i suspect that the doctor was right about this being *more* than any one person can handle--go to al anon, you're not alone.

[Andrea]

Al-Anon is a wonderful group. I don't feel like I am exaggerating to say it saved my life. I attended meetings off and on for several years, then became active in it and also joined CoDA (co-dependents anonymous). Best things I ever did for myself.

Go to a meeting. It won't hurt. In fact, I suggest attending several different meetings for several weeks. Each group will be different and feel different. It may not feel like it is for you for a couple of meetings and it may be uncomfortable, but it won't hurt anything to try it.

You will find people that have been through what you are going through. I found it a comfort to know I was not the only one that had experienced it. I didn't feel alone anymore. They spoke of ways of coping, and they spoke of their triumphs and that gave me hope.

Andrea

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by sylvie

i really, really feel i fail him, at doing what's right for him, or getting him help he needs.. (i do know HE needs to want help) - see my confusion?

I grew up with a step-father who's an alcoholic. Because of growing up in this type of environment, I've also partnered with alcoholics. It was safe. I already knew how the dynamics worked.

I started going to AA meetings when I was around 10 or 11 (yeah, my mother was so codependent that WE went to AA meetings FOR my step-father while he was out drinking). Then we went to Al-Anon meetings (after they came to our neck o' the woods). Occasionally, I will still attend meetings if something comes up.

You CANNOT "do what's right for him or get him help he needs". You just can't. It's enabling behavior to think you can. I'm not trying to sound harsh. I really hope you don't hear it that way. I'm trying to be honest with you. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to 'save' him. And even if your dad did quit drinking, he'd still continue certain behavior patterns unless he got help for the reasons he started drinking (aka dry-drunk).

I totally get wanting your dad to be more healthy and take care of himself. I totally get that. But the thing with alcoholics is that they can't take care of themselves...that's why they need all of the enablers...to get them alcohol, to listen to them, to force them to go to the hospital, etc. Alcoholics require a lot of attention (that's why you feel you've been doing this for so long, that's why there's the confusion you mention, etc). You can't save him, or change him, or make him quit drinking, or any other somesuch. Just because you're not buying his alcohol, doesn't mean you're not still enabling his alcoholic behavior.

Al-Anon can be very helpful for the reasons Wolfy and Andrea stated. You're not at all alone, and I'm sure we could trade stories of crazy behavior (behavior I thought was completely 'normal' for a really really long time...wellllllll into my thirties...even though I grew up in AA, Al-Anon, ACOA, etc). There's also some groups for ACOA, and some really good books. There's behaviors COA grow up with that they unwittingly perpetuate even if they don't drink.

I apologize that my post is kind of all over the place, and again, I really hope I don't sound too harsh. Your post brought up a lot of memories. Al-Anon will definitely let you know that you're not alone. And really, like Andrea said, try some different meetings if you're not comfortable with the first meeting.


Sorry Your Dad Is Not Doing So Well,
Dylan

[sylvie]

Originally Posted by Andrea

Al-Anon is a wonderful group. I don't feel like I am exaggerating to say it saved my life. I attended meetings off and on for several years, then became active in it and also joined CoDA (co-dependents anonymous). Best things I ever did for myself.

Go to a meeting. It won't hurt. In fact, I suggest attending several different meetings for several weeks. Each group will be different and feel different. It may not feel like it is for you for a couple of meetings and it may be uncomfortable, but it won't hurt anything to try it.

You will find people that have been through what you are going through. I found it a comfort to know I was not the only one that had experienced it. I didn't feel alone anymore. They spoke of ways of coping, and they spoke of their triumphs and that gave me hope.

Andrea

thank you Andrea, i really appreciate your advice, i'm not sure why i needed to hear from others it would be good for me, i think it's mostly because i found it hard to admit it was okay for me to seek help with this because he (or others in my life) might feel it was selfish of me, wanting help with this. (my mother tells me i'm too busy thinking of myself when i suggested it - and it's about him not me)... i think i know deep down this would benefit me. i will definitely make the phonecall today,

Originally Posted by apretty

i don't have personal experience but al anon is a great resource for people in your exact situation, please go and soon.

that said, if i came upon my father/anyone in the shape you describe i'd call 911 and let professionals deal with it, not because i don't care--quite the opposite, i care enough to not let him decide when he's going to go to the ER. (please understand that i'm not at all judging/criticizing the way you dealt with your father!!)

i understand that you've been dealing with this forever--that is so unfair... and i suspect that the doctor was right about this being *more* than any one person can handle--go to al anon, you're not alone.

thank you, and no don't worry i don't feel you are criticizing, i promise.. i have in the past called 911, and at that very moment, if i felt it was necessary i most definitely would have.. we only live less than a 5 minute drive from the hospital, and at that moment, i made the call to take him myself, but i'm not sure if it was in panic, or if i felt he was well enough.. i didn't know the extent of everything til i spoke with the doctor, he went 2 days without seeking care (which i didnt know about, til i got the call from my stepmother) - so i guess judging that fact weighed upon my thinking it was alright to get him there... i will say once i spoke with the doctor about how badly he's doing and what he is doing to himself, i regretted not just calling 911 myself.. i just wish my stepmother had done so, herself 2 days prior.

i really, really appreciate your advice and encouragement to go, i will make the call today , thank you so much!

Originally Posted by WolfyOne

Sylvie, my dad was a functioning alcoholic as many police officers are. My oldest brother is an alcoholic and I did the tough love with him (we no longer speak). It runs in my family. When I was in my 20's I had a lot of misplaced anger, so a friend turned me on to ACOA(adult children of alcoholics) meetings. Believe it or not, they helped me deal with my family better back then. Sometimes it's easier to be with others in a group like that every week than try to do it on your own.

I'll keep you and your dad in my prayers.

I understand what you're going through. If your dad won't get help for himself, you should at least get help for you, so you can cope better.

thank you very much - i will definitely get the help needed.. sometimes it's difficult for me to admit i need the help, life has been taking care of everything & everyone on my own, and i'm very much a bottle it in and deal with it kind of gal... a lot of my seeking help efforts when i was younger failed and have very much become the girl that takes care of everyone but myself, i think.

i really need to practice taking care of myself, too.

[sylvie]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I grew up with a step-father who's an alcoholic. Because of growing up in this type of environment, I've also partnered with alcoholics. It was safe. I already knew how the dynamics worked.

I started going to AA meetings when I was around 10 or 11 (yeah, my mother was so codependent that WE went to AA meetings FOR my step-father while he was out drinking). Then we went to Al-Anon meetings (after they came to our neck o' the woods). Occasionally, I will still attend meetings if something comes up.

You CANNOT "do what's right for him or get him help he needs". You just can't. It's enabling behavior to think you can. I'm not trying to sound harsh. I really hope you don't hear it that way. I'm trying to be honest with you. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to 'save' him. And even if your dad did quit drinking, he'd still continue certain behavior patterns unless he got help for the reasons he started drinking (aka dry-drunk).

I totally get wanting your dad to be more healthy and take care of himself. I totally get that. But the thing with alcoholics is that they can't take care of themselves...that's why they need all of the enablers...to get them alcohol, to listen to them, to force them to go to the hospital, etc. Alcoholics require a lot of attention (that's why you feel you've been doing this for so long, that's why there's the confusion you mention, etc). You can't save him, or change him, or make him quit drinking, or any other somesuch. Just because you're not buying his alcohol, doesn't mean you're not still enabling his alcoholic behavior.

Al-Anon can be very helpful for the reasons Wolfy and Andrea stated. You're not at all alone, and I'm sure we could trade stories of crazy behavior (behavior I thought was completely 'normal' for a really really long time...wellllllll into my thirties...even though I grew up in AA, Al-Anon, ACOA, etc). There's also some groups for ACOA, and some really good books. There's behaviors COA grow up with that they unwittingly perpetuate even if they don't drink.

I apologize that my post is kind of all over the place, and again, I really hope I don't sound too harsh. Your post brought up a lot of memories. Al-Anon will definitely let you know that you're not alone. And really, like Andrea said, try some different meetings if you're not comfortable with the first meeting.


Sorry Your Dad Is Not Doing So Well,
Dylan

Dylan, thank you.. i feel i need downright honesty, & that's what i feel this was, not harsh.. i knew that coming here might get me the honesty i need to hear..i've read around in other threads over time and the support here is really wonderful.. i remember touching on this a very little bit in another forum once and some responses i got, but i kind of tucked them inside of me and put them out of mind.. i think my plea here stems from that, knowing there might be some who could give me advice from their own situations, etc.

i really haven't felt like i needed help, all these years.. it was a surprise to hear the doctor suggest Al Anon to me, mainly because i felt these things became so "the norm" over the years, as i mentioned in my first post.
it's not always easy to hear honesty, but i know it's also not easy 'saying' it as someone needs to hear it.

hearing i'm an enabler, that's difficult.. (agreed with, when you say it the way you did, but difficult) i do know he seeks a lot of attention (he'll say otherwise) and that's where my frustration & upset comes in.. i am exhausted of it all, this i know. When the doctor suggested Al Anon, he said i would find it helpful in giving him the tough love, because he felt i wasnt capable of doing so after dealing with this for so many years, change is hard. Guessing he was probably thinking along your lines, without coming right out and saying it.

i definitely have alot to think on, but i now know Al-Anon is a must, so thank you.. for your honesty, and your advice.. i really, really do appreciate it Dylan.

[morningstar55]

my sister and her husband are/were alcoholic's
i say were cause....... i loss my sister from it 2 and half yrs ago.... and wow seems like it hasnt been that long.... i miss her so much.
they have a son.... he is in the reserves.....and doing well and in college.
i hope he doesnt fall in that same crack.

hope you can get the help you and your dad need at this time.
keeping you in my thoughts.. and positive energy.

[sylvie]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

my sister and her husband are/were alcoholic's
i say were cause....... i loss my sister from it 2 and half yrs ago.... and wow seems like it hasnt been that long.... i miss her so much.
they have a son.... he is in the reserves.....and doing well and in college.
i hope he doesnt fall in that same crack.

hope you can get the help you and your dad need at this time.
keeping you in my thoughts.. and positive energy.

(((hugggz)))
i'm so sorry for your loss morningstar, sincerely..
i was just thinking how it's already been 7 years since i lost my grandfather to it, too.. time really does fly by. so happy to hear their son is doing so well, sounds like he's on the right road that's for sure. ♥

thank you, very much for your positive energy and thoughts, very much appreciated.

[morningstar55]

Originally Posted by sylvie

(((hugggz)))
i'm so sorry for your loss morningstar, sincerely..
i was just thinking how it's already been 7 years since i lost my grandfather to it, too.. time really does fly by. so happy to hear their son is doing so well, sounds like he's on the right road that's for sure. ♥

thank you, very much for your positive energy and thoughts, very much appreciated.

(((((sylvie))))))))))))) sorry for your loss as well.... time does seem to go fast... my brother in law still drinks. he is more of a weekend binger..
my mom doesnt like to think that my sister died of such a thing , but a lot of us know better.
I tell my nephew and my daughter.. how i know there young and want to have fun with friends and such..... and its OK to have a drink . or 2..... BUT .... please its not cool to go crazy with it. Hope they are hearing me.
anyways.... ty ...

[adorable]

I grew up with alcoholics everywhere in my family. It effects how and what you think forever. I tended then, as now, to be a fixer. I was the one who handled things. I picked up pieces and put them back together. The problem is - they didn't appreciate it then. (People don't appreciate it now either lol because I tend to pick people who just can't. Ah, the sick and twisted tapes.) I stopped speaking to my mother years ago because she is abusive and unsafe. I didn't have a choice growing up. As an adult I do have choices. I still don't always make the right ones. It's hard when you grow up in chaos to know who, what and when to trust or believe.

One thing that I heard though, and this is truth so read it over and over again, "You don't have the right to take a person's bottom away from them."

In order for a person to hit bottom which is the only hope of them ever getting sober everyone needs to stop enabling. All of it. It happens naturally sometimes because they tend to piss people off and so the people close to them eventually walk away. It's hard enough to do when you are in a relationship with someone. When you have been raised by the person to do exactly what you are doing - that imo - is much more difficult. Years of programming isn't undone overnight. It helped me to realize that in enabling them I am taking away the very thing that might actually save their life.

We didn't cause it, we can't control it and it will never make sense. Definately go to Alanon as other people suggested.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by adorable

One thing that I heard though, and this is truth so read it over and over again, "You don't have the right to take a person's bottom away from them."

i love this!

[Soft*Silver]

Al Anon is everything they say it is. Its a life's tool to keep yourself from staying insane from the alcoholic's misery. It will teach you how to love your alcoholic differently. And that difference is distinct ...because it sacrifices nothing of you. You get to stay intact. But you still get to love the alcoholic.

You dad knows what to do if he needs help. He choses not to. Now this is between him and his Higher Power. Step out of its way. Let God do what you cannot...you are not who can save him...only his God can, whatever God is to him as he understands it.

AA got me sober. But I learned all about myself and people thru Al Anon. I feel it was the icing on the cake for me...

I am so sorry your father is so bad off. And that you are so "trapped". Literally, alcoholics take family members "hostage", emotionally and sometimes physically if you are also their physical caretaker. Get yourself to an Al Anon meeting...

and eventually get yourself into an ACoA meeting..Adult CHildren of Alcholics. I wept thru my first few meetings. It made the insanity real for me. Once validated, I could work on myself. I had so many behaviors and thoughts that were tied to being an ACoA....

but first..Al Anon...good luck...

[sylvie]

wow, thank you... all of you..
this thread has really helped me gain an understanding.. moreso of myself and what i need to do, for me.. and that i really have no control over the rest. i knew i couldn't (and shouldn't try) to save him. but i've never really thought of it all in the sense he needs to hit bottom and doing what we do may be preventing that.

i really do appreciate each of you taking time to share your thoughts, experiences and support in this.. for your encouragement..

i made the call today and got the number i needed, called it and left a message for someone to contact me.. hopefully, i will have my first meeting lined up very soon.

i'm nervous, but i know this is needed.. i was hoping my stepmother would do it as well, but she has no interest.
i really did it, i got my foot in the door and it's just a matter of time now..time to breathe..

*warm hugz*

[Soft*Silver]

the first time I went to an Al Anon meeting I walked in and leaned up against the doorway and looked in...

up until that point, mind you, I had been sitting out in the car, growling how unfair it was that *I* had to go to a meeting for HER problem. And I didnt want a bunch of people who didnt even understand alcoholism (remember, I am an alcoholic too) try to tell me how to make her behave herself. I also didnt want them to look down on me because I was an alcoholic, too. So I felt a chip on my shoulder forming....

so when I walked in and leaned up against the doorway, this is what I saw:

happy people.

Not miserable, whining, two faced, controlling people...

I saw Happy People...laughing, hugging each other, sharing good news, holding onto someone who was obviously distressed, busy members getting the place ready for the meeting and people making coffee and putting out cookies...

happy people. Not tormented, miserable, fearful, angry people. Happy People...

even the one who was clearly distressed was in the loving arms of people who were smiling and being encouraging...

I forgot what Happy People looked like!!

So, my advice stands. Go. Be amongst the Happy People. Someday you could be one too...

[sylvie]

wow, that's actually very encouraging.. helps me to want to do this so much more.

i really love the idea, of being with happy people. as i mentioned in a previous post, i dont have a lot of positive people in my family, they're very pushy, narrow minded and angry people.. i have disassociated myself from most of them, because i feel that life is just too short to deal with so much negativity - i live my life being 'me' , with my 2 loving, fantastic children who make my days full of smiles.. negativity pushes me back steps, i try to stay focused on 'forward'.. anyway, i won't go into all of that because that's a whole other situation LOL, and honestly one i don't stress over anymore.

but happiness, a sense of understanding, and most definitely i need to learn tough love.. i'm such a pushover kind of person, i don't really stand up for myself or stand up to others.. and when it comes to helping others, i really throw myself into that because it makes me feel good, but what i've come to realize in all of this is that it's not always a good thing.. or let me rephrase, the help that he needs which is tough love.

so i think this is the first day of what could be a form of healing, of some sort. recognizing the problem, taking steps i need to take no matter how hard those steps may be.. doing what's right for my papa.. for the first time, i feel as though i'm looking forward to going.. (yes, still very nervous though, lol)

i've still not heard back from anyone, if i dont in the next couple of days, i'll call again!

[Soft*Silver]

dont wait a couple days. Call again tomorrow. If you cant go to al anon, find an AA lead meeting, go to it. Walk up to anyone and everyone and ask if there are any people who go to Al Anon in the meeting. Seriously....they will introduce you to them

Some time after that first Al Anon meeting, I had a melt down with my ex who was using (way back 1991) I was too late to go to an AA meeting that night..but I knew what restaurant people went to after the meeting (the meeting after the meeting). I drove my unhappy ass over there...walked in..walked up to someone I had met at the Al Anon meeting and in a terrified, angry, damn near hysterical voice, I said I needed to talk to someone from Al Anon...she pushed out a chair and we sat and talked while we ate her french fried.

By the time I was done, she was my sponsor, I knew of which Al Anon meetings we were going to hit that week, and I had some tools to help myself at home with....

[Kimbo]

Sylvie, here's a link to help find meetings.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html

My step dad was an alcoholic. He passed away when he was 56 from liver failure. He could never stop. I've gone to quite a few meetings, AA & AL-Anon. They really do help.