Are butches really a dying breed?

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

No they aren't. There is plenty of them around. However, if you are preferable to a specific kind of butch and thus unable to spot any other kind, you may have that idea.
There are far far more than the kind that wear jeans and a tool belt. There are more than just OF or OS US style uniforms of it.
But that would require accepting that those who look like tomboys or "faggits" (the dapper/urban dressed) ones are butches. And no, black eyeliner doesn't make one a soft butch. It might make them goth or rock and roll or glam.


Alternatively I would also suggest there are only seven and the rest is done with mirrors.

Honeybarbara, a friend of mine has been complaining for 10 years about a lack of butches in Vancouver, BC. I have wondered if she means butches of a certain age group, though. She's pretty savvy about spotting butches with varying styles, in other cities. I'm curious, do you notice that the butches, of all styles, are in a particular age group in your area? Or is that a misperception on my part?

[imperfect_cupcake]

I see oodles of butches all over the place and there is a huge community of queer here. I see them every day. They dress anywhere from tomboy to hippy to queer fashionista to outdoorsy looking les.

She may not be noticing many because like you may look like a soccar mom, they look like they are about to go for a hike and look tomboy androgenous lezzo in their gear. Some of the butches wear make up (and are stone and tops).

I live in the east end of vancouver, but that said there are tons of sporty butches in the burbs. she is probably mistaking them for chapstick/sporty dykes. just like you might get misjudged as a soccar mom.

tell her to get her ass to queer as funk, queer box fit, the butch choir, or one of the leather events. Plus there is the queer film festival, the the queer arts events (always brings them out in droves), season fling queer dances at the wise hall, Man Up (stuffed full of butches)... and... well to list everything I'd have to go into my fb events. If she needs to see them dressed up and in context

if she is talking about over a certain age (45 or so) yeah, they are thin on the ground. cause like everyone else, they usually have a partner/wife. Or they come from a time when it was really bad to have the ID. they still fuck the same and move the same and treat me the same, they just don't ID because they think it's wrong. But a rose by any other name is still one

[GeorgiaMa'am]

@honeybarara - Ah, that must be it, we're in the "over 45 or so" group, just barely. She has mentioned something about everyone already being paired up. I'll give her your list though. Thanks!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm 44 and I date older and younger. I go because the age range at these things is wide. as soon as one is single they go on POF or head out to the events. but that's like most of my friends, even who are straight. eveyone they like is paired up. its not a shortage of butches, its a shortage of single people when you get past a certain age range... at least thats what I find.

[ButchKnight]

I certainly hope not though I do agree connecting can be hard especially depending on were you live I do feel like old school Butchs are a dying breed

[The_Lady_Snow]

As of 2014 so far, I can say they're out there!

[Cid]

I find it very difficult to find stone butches.
Not sure if there are any left in my area. I was with one, but
not anymore. Think she might have been the only stone in
the county.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by dancer611

I've heard time and time again that butches are "dying out," that there are tons more femmes than butches and that that trend will likely continue. I haven't been out long and don't know much about the overall community. Is this true, or a myth that people in femme-heavy areas like to throw around?

Possibly, life is in a constant rate/state of change.

[ConCrtAnge1]

i have went through and read this post. Although I am new here I felt a need to post... I live in So. central Il. And around here it seems there are more Andros then anything or a lot of butch on butch... Leaving a lot of femmes.. I am not a femme on femme kinda girl. I want my true butch. Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

[always2late]

Originally Posted by ConCrtAnge1

i have went through and read this post. Although I am new here I felt a need to post... I live in So. central Il. And around here it seems there are more Andros then anything or a lot of butch on butch... Leaving a lot of femmes.. I am not a femme on femme kinda girl. I want my true butch. Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

First, welcome to the site! I just have a question. I read your post, and I just wanted to ask for some clarification about what you wrote, specifically "A butch that knows the true song and dance."

[Jess]

Originally Posted by ConCrtAnge1

i have went through and read this post. Although I am new here I felt a need to post... I live in So. central Il. And around here it seems there are more Andros then anything or a lot of butch on butch... Leaving a lot of femmes.. I am not a femme on femme kinda girl. I want my true butch. Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

Welcome aboard.

Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

I am reading this as you want a butch who is comfortable receiving sexual activity/ pleasure as well as giving her partner pleasure. (Correct me if I am wrong, please) You may be able to meet some butches of this type on the Lesbian Zone threads. There are a couple specifically geared toward butches who share this quality. Good luck with that!

I do feel a need to add, that I was put off a little by your use of the phrase " the true song and dance". There is NO true song and dance. We each have a different drum, a different dance and I am willing to bet that each one is simply divine in their own right. It may have been easier for me to read, if perhaps you had said something like " someone who dances to the same dance I do"... When someone uses absolutes, like "the true", it is really off putting to me. I have no doubt you didn't mean it as a slight or anything, it just struck a hint of discord with me, so I felt a need to mention it.

I do wish you luck in meeting butches who suit your desires and hope you enjoy all of your visits at the planet.

[lamuymuyfem]

Originally Posted by ConCrtAnge1

i have went through and read this post. Although I am new here I felt a need to post... I live in So. central Il. And around here it seems there are more Andros then anything or a lot of butch on butch... Leaving a lot of femmes.. I am not a femme on femme kinda girl. I want my true butch. Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

I have to say, when I lived in Iowa, the straight farm women looked pretty butch…….. So looks are sometimes not helpful. BF is a complex dynamic, and it's not easy to find a compatible partner, period.

[ConCrtAnge1]

Originally Posted by ConCrtAnge1

i have went through and read this post. Although I am new here I felt a need to post... I live in So. central Il. And around here it seems there are more Andros then anything or a lot of butch on butch... Leaving a lot of femmes.. I am not a femme on femme kinda girl. I want my true butch. Don't get me wrong I want a true butch but one that enjoys her womyn side in bed ... A butch that know the true song and dance..

OK please allow me to clean this post up a bit.. First off the wording of True Butch comes off wrong I understand however having dated womyn who ID as butch around here are no more then Chapstick Lesbians. Sorry to have offended or confused but what I said. "True song and dance" was more meant as they need to be on the same song and dance as myself!! As for having to a butch who is also in tune with her sexuality as a womyn isn't so wrong. I feel as if my wording was way off for that I am sorry. Please forgive... I also know Butch isn't just the clothing or the hair.. I know it goes so much deeper..

[Loren_Q]

Originally Posted by ConCrtAnge1

OK please allow me to clean this post up a bit.. First off the wording of True Butch comes off wrong I understand however having dated womyn who ID as butch around here are no more then Chapstick Lesbians. Sorry to have offended or confused but what I said. "True song and dance" was more meant as they need to be on the same song and dance as myself!! As for having to a butch who is also in tune with her sexuality as a womyn isn't so wrong. I feel as if my wording was way off for that I am sorry. Please forgive... I also know Butch isn't just the clothing or the hair.. I know it goes so much deeper..

I bolded the parts of this I'm going to address.

It's perfectly fine for you to know what you're attracted to, what calls to you. I think it's great you know what you want.

However you do not get to quantify me or others. By my appearance or size or race, I would likely fall into your "no more than Chapstick Lesbians" model.

But I'm butch because I say I am, not because someone else conferred that upon me.

I bolded that last part because it seems incongruent with the prior statement. I'd like to believe this is true for you.

[C0LLETTE]

Well, I've reread this series of posts several times now and I thought I understood the original post, even with it's slightly ambiguous phrasing. Now that it's been examined, clarified and reclarified, I am confused. Maybe we all just have different ways of expressing ourselves and could use a little breathing room. I honestly saw the original post as a personal statement and not intended to offend anyone.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Well, I've reread this series of posts several times now and I thought I understood the original post, even with it's slightly ambiguous phrasing. Now that it's been examined, clarified and reclarified, I am confused. Maybe we all just have different ways of expressing ourselves and could use a little breathing room. I honestly saw the original post as a personal statement and not intended to offend anyone.

I agree. We don't all use the same language and if a person is not a regular B/F message board attender they would not know that certain words or phrasing can be insulting to others, if in their own little butch/femme/queer/lesbian community the terms are not insulting. We all have our own vernacular in our own community.

Yes, to breathing room, especially for those who do not know BFP's vernacular and "trigger points".

Intent. It's what for dinner.

[BullDog]

Welcome to BFP ConCrtAnge1

[imperfect_cupcake]

Welcome to the planet concrtange

Just as the type of butch that you like is what you want, it would never do for me. I am not into old school type rules around "the dance" and in fact, I don't even believe in "the dance" because I never felt it in the UK the way it's touted in the US. I liked the freedom of there being no dance steps and no "understood" way of being. Nor do I believe in "energy".

Some butches click with me - and I have been with stone butches, transgender butches, transmasculine, genderqueer, tomboi, boi, butch women, butch as gender, and yeahokimbutchbutiloathetheIDsoletsjustnotgothere.
There is as many ways to be a "true" butch as there is flavours of ice cream in my local 200 flavours of gelato store. There's garlic ice cream, wasabi ice cream, lotusmoonseed cake ice cream, chocolate chili, purple yam, red bean and mango cinnamon. There's also milk free ice cream, made with coconut milk and agave juice. Plus sorbets.

Since coming out of my dating hibernation, I have had offers of dates from all sorts of butch. Some who feel uncomfortable IDing as it even though they are stone and more traditional. Some who are not cock identified yet don't see themselves as women either. Some who see themselves as purely masculine and yet gender less. But prefer female pronouns. Some that dress as dandies (she's a drag king from the UK living across the fiord from me) as a old style punk rock goth with eyeliner and a Mohawk (she's a tattoo artist that does a local circuit to up north and back) a stone butch welder that likes wearing beautiful hand made dress shirts and fashionable Japanese jeans, a Mexican Butch mama who is macha and grows plants in greens houses for a living, and as you might see her a Chapstick triathlete in ironman competitions - she's just coming to understand her butch self, an Irish stone butch woman, and old fashionedstone butch Sir. Also a transmasculine cop.

All of these are true. All of them. They all are true to who they are. Which is outside of the gender norm and have to fight for who they are on a fairly regular basis - less than they used to, granted, but they all still carry the scars of what it used to be like. And having a femme tell them that who they are, as they ID doesn't count is pretty cutting.

I'm just suggesting that instead of passing judgement on their identity, perhaps it might be prudent to say they just aren't your cup of tea, in terms of butch. For me, people who are very, very old school wouldn't suit me. But they still get to be who they say they are. No skin off my nose to let them have their ID and just because having a relationship with them wouldn't suit me, doesn't mean they aren't real butches.

I hope you can understand what I'm banging on about and you haven't slipped into a coma.
Gate keeping around gender and ID doesn't serve us very well. It just causes a lot of insecurities all round.

[Martina]

I agree re not pouncing on newbies.

However, I also agree that addressing things like "true butch" or saying people who call themselves butch are not in fact butch, but chapstick lesbians ought to occur.

We all know that as the language of oppression. No one wants to push newbies away, but no one wants to encourage language that harms either.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Well, I've reread this series of posts several times now and I thought I understood the original post, even with it's slightly ambiguous phrasing. Now that it's been examined, clarified and reclarified, I am confused. Maybe we all just have different ways of expressing ourselves and could use a little breathing room. I honestly saw the original post as a personal statement and not intended to offend anyone.

Collette, I am not attacking you or concreteangel, but these are the kinds of excuses people typically use when they have said something that is racist, homophobic, etc. They say it was a personal statement and deny that it was harmful. (Not saying concreteange did say this.)

In fact, saying that there is such a thing as a true butch . . . saying that a self-identified butch is not in fact a butch because she/he is not masculine enough is to make statements full of sexism and homophobia. And it's not OK. It doesn't mean the person who says them isn't entitled to her own preferences re dating. It means she doesn't get to decide what a butch is or who is butch and announce it to an entire community, where there are variety of butches, some of whom may be harmed by such a statement.

IMO, that doesn't mean anyone who says these things should be moderated or be made to feel unwelcome. But it does mean that people should respond. To her credit, Concert Angel was the first to respond to her own post. In any case.. , ,