Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I find the word Breeder when used in reference to ANY woman vulgar and offensive. It reduces a woman (once again) to her reproductive organs.

I really like your statement here specifically. I think the word "breeder" is a slur.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I love how you take it out of context and start a thread about it.

You want to drag this conversation over to another thread now?

Honestly, if you don't think little girls are groomed for this shit from before they can even talk, I really don't understand how or why you'd jump into a conversation about that exact topic

It wasn't a dis on people who have kids...it was used as a dis for how girls are groomed by a sexist culture.

I heard you. I got your feelings on the topic. Had that been the way I used it in the post, I would agree with you. But that's not how I used it.


Dylan

Can you take into consideration that it is NOT OK for you to say that? Can you not listen and hear us say

It's offensive?

Can you step out of Dylan zone for one fucking second and hear this?

You don't get to tell us how to feel about a word that has been used on us as defensive, derogatory or insulting.

Damn it Dylan..

I know you gotta know better..

It's not about you you you and your god damn sentence structure and how you see fit.

As a guy, it's even worse for you to come up in here and JUSTIFY that term.

Damn dude...

FFS listen.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

Toward females only?

No. According to the urban dictionary, the child-free community has more specific and ugly language for mothers and fathers.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Women are not bred.

Women in this country are groomed to breed/reproduce/carry on the human race/however you choose to say it.

Because women are seen as objects. Whores and mothers. Sinner or saint. They're not seen as individuals. Housekeepers and secretaries. And if they don't want to have kids, there's something wrong with them...or they hate men. And every thing they do is (supposedly) done for the benefit of a man or to get a man. Don't believe me? Pink is on the cover of Cosmo this month talking about sex secrets...because even someone as strong as Pink is catering to a man and worried about 'keeping her man happy'.

It started with religion, and it's perpetrated through a sexist culture. Girls and women are sooooo groomed for it that they can't even decide for themselves if they can have an abortion.

It's in every commercial geared toward women, and it's perpetuated in every commercial for children. "Take care of these precious little ponies". "Take care of this little baby". "Clean the house with this play set". "Make your baby dinner with this kitchen set". "Put make up on, so you can get a man, so you can have babies".

So, seriously, you think girls/women aren't bombarded with this message from the second that F goes on that birth certificate?


Honestly,
Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I love how you take it out of context and start a thread about it.

You want to drag this conversation over to another thread now?

Honestly, if you don't think little girls are groomed for this shit from before they can even talk, I really don't understand how or why you'd jump into a conversation about that exact topic

It wasn't a dis on people who have kids...it was used as a dis for how girls are groomed by a sexist culture.

I heard you. I got your feelings on the topic. Had that been the way I used it in the post, I would agree with you. But that's not how I used it.


Dylan

Dylan, this thread has nothing to do with you or how you posted.

It's about a word and how it is used by some (not you) to hurt.

I'm not dragging a discussion either, I am wanting to have a dialogue about the feelings that this word invokes for some of us.

Please take yourself out of the equation, ok?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Believe it or not..

Some women

Wanted to be mommies.....

gasp...

true story

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Can you take into consideration that it is NOT OK for you to say that? Can you not listen and hear us say

It's offensive?

Can you step out of Dylan zone for one fucking second and hear this?

You don't get to tell us how to feel about a word that has been used on us as defensive, derogatory or insulting.

Damn it Dylan..

I know you gotta know better..

It's not about you you you and your god damn sentence structure and how you see fit.

As a guy, it's even worse for you to come up in here and JUSTIFY that term.

Damn dude...

FFS listen.

FFS Snow, I heard you. Both of you.

And FFS Snow, could you hear a word in context instead of hearing it as you want?

Give me another word, Snow.

What other word denotes the same way women are groomed?

Give me another one, and I'll use it. That has the same connotation. Reproducer? Doesn't have the same connotation.

Give me something that has the same connotation as puppy mill. Because that IS how the patriarchy sets up and grooms girls/women.


Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

I won't give an example as the difference between something said in a non-harmful way and an insulting way is most often not in the words but in the context, tone, etc. However that's just the background of the usage I'm aware of. My real question is whether or not people think it's in reference to women only.

That makes sense...totally. I hear you on the context so fair enough, no example needed.

In answer to your question, no. I don't think it is in reference to women only. I also don't think it's appropriate to use on any gender. Seriously.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Dylan

FFS Snow, I heard you. Both of you.

And FFS Snow, could you hear a word in context instead of hearing it as you want?

Give me another word, Snow.

What other word denotes the same way women are groomed?

Give me another one, and I'll use it. That has the same connotation. Reproducer? Doesn't have the same connotation.

Give me something that has the same connotation as puppy mill. Because that IS how the patriarchy sets up and grooms girls/women.


Dylan

When I was pregnant..

I was refered to as pregnant..

Not bred.

How about that

Impregnated..

Pregnant.

Last time I checked that was a word.

[Spirit Dancer]

It wasn't instilled or grilled into me
to have children, I chose the gift of life.
It was my sole choice not to abort, mine alone
no influence from outside sources.
I raised my daughter to be and stand strong
to make her own decisions on having a child,
she's chosen to do just that and I adore her
no matter what.
Woman are intelligent and can chose their fate to have
children or not.

[SuperFemme]

Wait. What does ffs mean?

[Nat]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Wait. What does ffs mean?

for fuck's sake?

for further study?

fringe field switching?

fee for service?

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

When I was pregnant..

I was refered to as pregnant..

Not bred.

How about that

Impregnated..

Pregnant.

Last time I checked that was a word.

And after you were pregnant?

Pregnant is a certain stage of the reproduction cycle

It's not the same connotation

And let's not forget that once women are past the age of reproducing/carrying on the human race, they're no longer seen as attractive or useful to the patriarchy (unless they're the caretaking, doting grandmother who once again is dealing with children).


Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

FFS Snow, I heard you. Both of you.

And FFS Snow, could you hear a word in context instead of hearing it as you want?

Give me another word, Snow.

What other word denotes the same way women are groomed?

Give me another one, and I'll use it. That has the same connotation. Reproducer? Doesn't have the same connotation.

Give me something that has the same connotation as puppy mill. Because that IS how the patriarchy sets up and grooms girls/women.


Dylan

Puppy mill? Really?

I thought we were to have 2.3 children only and to stay gorgeous for our men. Who would have the energy to clean, work, and be sexy with THAT many kids?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Nat

for fuck's sake?

for further study?

fringe field switching?

fee for service?

ohhhhh. thanks.

[Spirit Dancer]

What I never understood was
why do those who choose not to have children
feel the need to judge those of us who do and
them flame us with those nasty little words.
They made their choice, we made ours and if your
reading this today, thank a mother.

[SuperFemme]

I think it's safe to say that the "connotation" is offensive.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Dylan

And after you were pregnant?

Pregnant is a certain stage of the reproduction cycle

It's not the same connotation

And let's not forget that once women are past the age of reproducing/carrying on the human race, they're no longer seen as attractive or useful to the patriarchy (unless they're the caretaking, doting grandmother who once again is dealing with children).


Dylan

After I became MOM...

I will gladly become MOMMA-SON

I don't use gramma.

Yanno Dylan once again, some of us wanted kids. It wasn't shoved down our throats, we just wanted them.. I can't tell you how much I wanted my kids. IT HURT. Every single one, once I knew them I would give my life for them.

That's what you ain't hearing Dylan, that as a MOTHER, you insisting on using the word is humiliating and ugly.

FUCK your points of view..

Respect that a handful of women keep asking you to listen, can you just listen and give us that much respect?

Not that fucking hard Dylan, I do it for you ,and would if you asked -and have.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

And after you were pregnant?

Pregnant is a certain stage of the reproduction cycle

It's not the same connotation

And let's not forget that once women are past the age of reproducing/carrying on the human race, they're no longer seen as attractive or useful to the patriarchy (unless they're the caretaking, doting grandmother who once again is dealing with children).


Dylan

How about if we say parent? mother?

I wasn't bred...I'm not a cow.

I became pregnant. I am a mother. I parent. Any of those is better, at least to me.

I agree that women are judged, in part, by whether or not they have children. We are also judged, in part, by our physical appearance, how much money we make or have, who we partner with. the class we are born into, the car we drive, the clothes we wear and more.

For me, the central problem isn't that women are raised to be mothers or measure their worth by their sexual appeal to others (although I have a problem with both of those things)...it's that we aren't generally raised to treasure our own individuality - no matter what it looks like or where it takes us.

[Gayla]

I've heard it used by the (straight) child free by choice people in reference to other straight people who have children. I've heard it used by, mostly, gay men in reference to straight people. It's the term we yelled back at the protester who were yelling "Fags!" at us when our float went by. In these circumstances, it's been used against men and women equally and usually towards heterosexual couples.

Granted, this was all probably 20+ years ago and I'm not sure I've seen it used since except on rare occasion. And when I do it hear it used in that way that is meant to insult, I'm horrified that we used it back then. In our somewhat limited defense, there were not many queers with children in our limited social circle at the time.

I do have a friend who refers to his siblings as the "breeders" of the family because he has something like 14 nieces and nephews . In this particular case, he uses it with affection because he is very glad to have those kids in his life. And yes, he uses the phrase to their faces.

I think that may be the only time I've heard it used without offensive intent.