The Never-Ending Bathroom Debate

[Linus]

Apparently a trans woman (pre-op) was denied access to the women's bathroom at a Denny's --- even though she has been using that washroom in that same Denny's for the last year

Even as an FTM, I have been refused the right to be in the "washroom" or change room of choice. Most recently I had contacted a 24-hour gym to see which facilities I'd be asked to use. They said it would be whatever is on my official ID (which is still F). I somehow doubt that me -- full beard and all -- would be really welcomed in the women's change room.

I was at least pleased that they were honestly enough to reply to my email about this upfront but seriously, it's annoying to wonder at times. I like working out at gyms sometimes (especially spinning classes) but don't want to wait until I have surgery (part of the need to lose weight is in prep for surgery and general health).

Sigh.

Sorry. Just needed to vent a bit. If anyone wants to comment, go for it.

[atomiczombie]

Hey Linus,

That fuckin' bites. I too have dilemmas about which bathroom to use, whether I should use the changing room/lockers at the gym, etc. I generally try to avoid having to make these choices as much as I can. Out in public places, I just hold it until I get home, and try to drink/eat as little as possible. I take my daughter to the movies sometimes and do this. I really hate it. The T I am on hasn't given me any effects except acne so far, but once I start getting the changes I want, that will complicate things further. I really don't know how I am going to handle that.

In September I am going to go on an Alaskan cruise with my parents and aunts and uncles. We sail out of Vancouver Canada. I am anxious about whether I will resemble my current passport photo enough for it not to be questioned. Things like this cross my mind and make me anxious. I tell myself not to worry, that I will cross that bridge when I get there, but that doesn't always help.

Anyhoo, *hug* bro. I hope you find a gym that is enlightened.

[JustJo]

Hi Linus,

I can only imagine how challenging that would be...

I work in the fitness industry (with seniors) and know that many of the newer facilities (especially YMCAs) have "family" or "assisted" changing rooms...basically a single small room with lockers in a hallway area outside the room that can be used to secure your belongings.

It can be a bit of a hassle to wait for the space if you're there at a time when lots of families are using them, but it eliminates the "where do I go" problem. I used them alot when my son was 8 or 9. I just wasn't comfortable sending him into the men's locker room alone...and he was too old to be in the women's...so that was our best choice.

Best of luck with your fitness goals!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Hey Linus,

That fuckin' bites. I too have dilemmas about which bathroom to use, whether I should use the changing room/lockers at the gym, etc. I generally try to avoid having to make these choices as much as I can. Out in public places, I just hold it until I get home, and try to drink/eat as little as possible. I take my daughter to the movies sometimes and do this. I really hate it. The T I am on hasn't given me any effects except acne so far, but once I start getting the changes I want, that will complicate things further. I really don't know how I am going to handle that.

In September I am going to go on an Alaskan cruise with my parents and aunts and uncles. We sail out of Vancouver Canada. I am anxious about whether I will resemble my current passport photo enough for it not to be questioned. Things like this cross my mind and make me anxious. I tell myself not to worry, that I will cross that bridge when I get there, but that doesn't always help.

Anyhoo, *hug* bro. I hope you find a gym that is enlightened.

When I move to L.A., I may luck out with a gym on site or not have to worry as much about change rooms (since I want it to be within walking distance but we'll see).

As for passport, as an FYI, I look nothing like mine (the photo is pre-transition) and have never had issue with travel whether in the US or across the border back home. You should be ok.

[Sam]

i recently got a speeding ticket and was questioned by the state trooper about my DL

nothing to do with a rest room, just pisses me off

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Hey Linus,

That fuckin' bites. I too have dilemmas about which bathroom to use, whether I should use the changing room/lockers at the gym, etc. I generally try to avoid having to make these choices as much as I can. Out in public places, I just hold it until I get home, and try to drink/eat as little as possible. I take my daughter to the movies sometimes and do this. I really hate it. The T I am on hasn't given me any effects except acne so far, but once I start getting the changes I want, that will complicate things further. I really don't know how I am going to handle that.

In September I am going to go on an Alaskan cruise with my parents and aunts and uncles. We sail out of Vancouver Canada. I am anxious about whether I will resemble my current passport photo enough for it not to be questioned. Things like this cross my mind and make me anxious. I tell myself not to worry, that I will cross that bridge when I get there, but that doesn't always help.

Anyhoo, *hug* bro. I hope you find a gym that is enlightened.

Atomic - The State Department just pasted a new law on June 10, 2010 stating you can change the gender on your passport with only a letter from your doctor stating you are transitioning. I have posted the link below:

http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/2...gender-people/

Rufus

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Linus

Most recently I had contacted a 24-hour gym to see which facilities I'd be asked to use. They said it would be whatever is on my official ID (which is still F). I somehow doubt that me -- full beard and all -- would be really welcomed in the women's change room.

I was at least pleased that they were honestly enough to reply to my email about this upfront but seriously, it's annoying to wonder at times. I like working out at gyms sometimes (especially spinning classes) but don't want to wait until I have surgery (part of the need to lose weight is in prep for surgery and general health).

Hey Linus...

Is there a reason you needed to ask the gym about this? Do they require you to show your ID?

Curious...

[AtLast]

Bathrooms and changing rooms.... ARGH!! Make me nuts! LOL... love having a small RV van with my own damn head!

Linus- If you have a gym photo ID, I just can't see why they can't use it and you be able to go into the mens.

Do you have to show a driver's license? It has been so long since I have been a member in a gym, I can't remember what the ID is. Probably all different, anyway.

Good Luck!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Bathrooms and changing rooms.... ARGH!! Make me nuts! LOL... love having a small RV van with my own damn head!

Linus- If you have a gym photo ID, I just can't see why they can't use it and you be able to go into the mens.

Do you have to show a driver's license? It has been so long since I have been a member in a gym, I can't remember what the ID is. Probably all different, anyway.

Good Luck!

It's the ID to register with the gym that they use. Since I only have passport and it has my original gender on it.

[Logicaly]

I avoid public restrooms if at all possible unless I know its a place where I wont have any issues. Its very akward for me, because there has been times where I have been stopped by other men from going into the womens restroom, or where women second guess themselves, or stare at me, for using the womens room.

I don't like akward. I just want to get in, do my business and get out. And at work, its even more akward, because I have to use the womens room, cause the owner would probably freak if I used the mens room. The women go in there and chit chat and stuff, and I just want to go in there and take care of business, not talk about my day....

So I always try to wait until I get home if at all possible. In public, I make my girlfriend go in with me, I have found that if I do it that way, for the womens room, that I get a lot less uncomfortable looks that way.

[Nat]

I ran across this interview today. I remember when Khadijah Farmer hit the news because she got kicked out of a women's room by a bouncer during pride in 2007 in the middle of Greenwich Village. She did win a settlement in 2008. AND she was asked to pay the bill even though she'd never been given the food she'd ordered.







She won $35k plus

Among the workplace practices that Caliente Cab agreed to adopt in the settlement was to add gender identity and expression to its corporate nondiscrimination policy; to adopt a gender-neutral dress code for its employees; and to amend its employee handbook to state “persons patronizing or employed at Caliente have the right to use the bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity and expression.”

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Nat

Among the workplace practices that Caliente Cab agreed to adopt in the settlement was to add gender identity and expression to its corporate nondiscrimination policy; to adopt a gender-neutral dress code for its employees; and to amend its employee handbook to state “persons patronizing or employed at Caliente have the right to use the bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity and expression.”

That's actually a law in NYC, I believe. I actually have a card from the Gender Identity Project meetings which I carry around (not as much an issue today but when I was first transitioning I held on to it for dear life). The Caliente case was particularly annoying since they get their business from the LGBTQ community (as in, it was one of our own). I think that's what caused the biggest ruckus about all this.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Linus

That's actually a law in NYC, I believe. I actually have a card from the Gender Identity Project meetings which I carry around (not as much an issue today but when I was first transitioning I held on to it for dear life). The Caliente case was particularly annoying since they get their business from the LGBTQ community (as in, it was one of our own). I think that's what caused the biggest ruckus about all this.

It sucks that a card would have been necessary, but that doesn't sound like a bad way to carry around at least a little back-up if things really escalated in that sort of situation.

I remember a few years back, Rainbow Cattle Company (gay bar) in Austin put these signs on the doors of their bathrooms insisting that only men use the men's room and only women use the women's room, and it did seem especially awful that it was "family" who decided to implement this policy and that they seemed to have no understanding of gender variance. That bar is closed now, and I don't know if others in Austin have similar policies.

[Nat]

My super-Christian conservative Texan-small-town workplace has a new member of it's cleaning staff - who happens to be - (okay, I know it's wrong to assume) - appears to be a butch.

What so totally rocks about this is the fact that there is often a masculine woman in the bathroom when I walk in. Which means the hundreds of women who work in my cubicle-land may have the opportunity to lose their startle response in the butch bathroom encounter. At least that's what I hope.

[chefhmboyrd]

i am fortunate to look like i do. i just go where i fuck well please and do what the hell i want and nobody says shit to me.
i TOLD the people at the gym that i would be using the men's locker room.
i haven't used a women's facilty for years, even before the T, because i would get funny looks, and i have never even gotten a second glance in a men's room, except at Play, and he was definitely cruising me.

@

[Jet]

Originally Posted by chefhmboyrd

i am fortunate to look like i do. i just go where i fuck well please and do what the hell i want and nobody says shit to me.
i TOLD the people at the gym that i would be using the men's locker room.
i haven't used a women's facilty for years, even before the T, because i would get funny looks, and i have never even gotten a second glance in a men's room, except at Play, and he was definitely cruising me.

@

sure as hell sounds like you're real tough.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Why Bathrooms Are a Civil Rights Issue



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carlos..._b_707376.html

[Mike]

http://transgenderlawcenter.org/pdf/...ce%20Guide.pdf

[ravfem]

A short snippet from the TLC Restroom Resource Guide Mike posted:

Strategy #2: Confidence
Using gender segregated bathrooms may be nerve-wracking at times but it is important that you realize you have a right to be there, no ma􀄴er how other people react to you. You belong in the bathroom that makes you feel most comfortable as much as anyone else does. Being confident lets other people know that as well.
If you are feeling nervous when entering a bathroom, take a deep breath and remind yourself that there’s nothing wrong with you and that you have the right to be there as much as anyone else does. If necessary, keep taking deep breaths and repeat the phrase, “I belong here” in your mind while you are in
the bathroom.

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by ravfem

A short snippet from the TLC Restroom Resource Guide Mike posted:

Strategy #2: Confidence
Using gender segregated bathrooms may be nerve-wracking at times but it is important that you realize you have a right to be there, no ma􀄴er how other people react to you. You belong in the bathroom that makes you feel most comfortable as much as anyone else does. Being confident lets other people know that as well.
If you are feeling nervous when entering a bathroom, take a deep breath and remind yourself that there’s nothing wrong with you and that you have the right to be there as much as anyone else does. If necessary, keep taking deep breaths and repeat the phrase, “I belong here” in your mind while you are in
the bathroom.

There are parts of this I really do like. However, have you ever tried walking into a bathroom with hardly any hair/masculine features/non shaved legs if in shorts etc...?
I could have (which I thankfully do not) a big O flappin vagina hangin out and still catch shit. (okay, that didn't sound right) Not just from women but from men who may be waiting outside for their daughters.
The last time this happened an elderly woman gasp and said "you are in the wrong place"! I simply told her "I've been touching this thing for 45 years, I know where I belong" she winked, apologized and kept steppin.
The man was stupid enough to put his hand on me as if to stop me. He may or may not recover that testicle.