Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

Succinctly, I have always said this. If it is not all about us, it is for us.

I've been mulling over this post Yellow Band because when I read it, I literally laughed out loud.

I'm a pushy leader....but most of what I do (professionally and in relationships) is actually for the others around me. In an odd way, I serve from the front.

Hard to explain....but....in a relationship I will annoy the hell out of any partner who wants to passively sit and do nothing...who has no goals...who has no vision for their life. I would drive them nuts (and vice versa) because I am all about "who are you? what do you want? where are you going? what do you dream about doing? what will make you happy?"....and then I will kick your ass to get you there.

It isn't for me. It isn't about me. It's about the other....and I have this compelling need to drag, push or pull them (if necessary) to their joy.

Make sense?

My son just turned 14...and he'll tell you that he wants to form his own company, design computer games, possibly get his PhD and teach (and have his interns work for free on his projects)....ahhhh....he's his mother's son. He wants to learn Mandarin Chinese (he's already learning Spanish); wants to live overseas at some point; wants to travel all over the world. He's had a lifetime of my influence, and it shows. He has goals. He has ambition. He wants to accomplish big things.

It isn't that we have to always be doing and busy. We don't. We have "pajama days" when we do nothing at all (including getting dressed). I see nothing wrong with enjoying a TV show, or floating in the pool, or playing with the animals.

I just don't want his, or my, or your (if we're in a relationship) life to be only that. I won't settle, and I'm not comfortable letting the people around me settle either.

[The_Lady_Snow]

My daughter Ria says I'm the head of the Octopus and the rest of the pack are the tentacles together we work as one!!! I'm a micormanager so being involved for me works, it may seem I'm to demanding, harsh, not mushy enough but our end results are great and we're all happy and things run smoothly on all fronts!

[Random]

Originally Posted by Sachita

but just for the record those attributes of confidence etc can also be found in submissive energy.

No to deny masculine or make it seem less than but there is something divine and sacred about Goddess energy. It encompasses a natural projection of so many things- bitch, lover, mother, whore....dark and light. The women that adopt this, nurture and cultivate are alpha and solicit control. Its part of their fiber. Calling me a dominant woman barely scratches my surface. I am so much more.

Should you (anyone) ever encounter one that could seduce that goddess essence in you it just might chance your life.

See... I wouldn't have described submissive energy with those words.... For me submissive feels , still, empty, waiting, open....

Using energy... I am the current, she is the recepticle

I understand what you mean about goddess essence/energy but for me it's different... It's more natural/ animalistic... There is no good or bad, no dark or light... It simply is..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Random

See... I wouldn't have described submissive energy with those words.... For me submissive feels , still, empty, waiting, open....

Using energy... I am the current, she is the recepticle

I understand what you mean about goddess essence/energy but for me it's different... It's more natural/ animalistic... There is no good or bad, no dark or light... It simply is..

Primal.... Yes, I like it primal till I don't!

WOOF

[Sachita]

Many thoughts on my mind lately about femme led relationships. I think I am misunderstood most of the time. Or perhaps I confuse people. I'm a playful woman and sometimes a bit of a flirt. If I want you you'll be the first to know. lol

I posted something in the Listening to Each Other thread about someone telling me they "liked" me but heard "bad" stories about me being a dom. At first I rolled my eyes and laughed just at the sheer absurdity of the statement. This drama rumor crap is just something I will never wrap my head around.

I hate labels. I don't want to be called a dom or anything else. I am woman who is sexually and spiritually mature. I am alpha, I enjoy control but it doesn't always mean the same thing. Why do people automatically think that I want you as a wet rag, groveling at my feet with no opinions of your own? Why can't I just be an intelligent, strong woman who enjoys being treated well?

Each relationship is different as it forms into a dynamic. I don't care who you are, if there's any kind of chemistry you'll find what fits you. This might manifest many different ways and some may be extreme. My relationship with Wanton Boi continues to evolve and is always changing. We are friends but not always lovers but we always love. Its nice to be real enough with someone to say "I'm feeling needy today and need some pampering." hys reply would be "I'd love to be your bitch today." No drama, no games, just two people comforting one another. At the same time I don't close doors because hy needs something different.

Perhaps I could fall in love with another alpha and I have. I just need to be respected for the woman I am and not engage in power struggles because someone is threatened. Let's find how we best fit and enjoy the places we are compatible.

[Sachita]

Oh and the primal thing.... I love tapping that but admit it doesn't come around often enough. It's rare to share space with another human who can leave all the outside shit outside and get get down to the essence of sexual energy.

[Tawse]

great thread!

If someone were to ask - I'd say I was a switch (both D/s and S/M), however my soul for lack of a better word - is firmly rooted in the submission and masochism part of the equation.

I absolutely love taking care of the wife, pampering her, spoiling her, following her agenda, itinerary, rules, regulations, whims... you name it. And don't get me started on masochism

It's been good reading through this thread though it's also been a sobering wake up call.

Trying to figure out how to word this.

Gillian and I just are how we are in person. I am naturally submissive to her and it's pretty damn hard not to notice it. I get no flack from people in real life and I honestly don't know if they think less of me - but if they do they don't have the stupidity to approach me about it... so good for them! lol

I was in SL for a bit - and it wasn't a problem there either, but that may be because for some odd reason (not intentional by any means) the people we hung around had either a similar mindset, or they didn't give a rats ass about it.

I haven't since I've been here read anything that was derogatory as far as someone being butch and submissive... I have read some "ooook" statements about femmes and cocks though..

But anyway - this thread has both been fun, and a reminder that there are idiots out there and that apparently I've surrounded myself with a great group of people that have allowed me to pretty much forget the idiocity of others in regards to this situation.

[Tawse]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but since I've been more and more active on the Planet I've noticed something and it perplexed me.

All the hating on Femme Cocks, Femme Dominance/Leadership... and I'll take everyone's word for it, Butch bottoms and by association with the Femme cock - Butches who take cock.

I was trying to figure out why this was such a wake up call for me and I think I may have figured it out.

I left the online "GLBTQI" community in favor of the BDSM community.

I remember back in the MSN chat room days - we had to fight like dogs to be able to discuss BDSM in the open room while in gay chat rooms. Then there was the ostracism of the B&Fs, and those who didn't call themselves Lesbian.. those who weren't born female.. and literally anything else under the sun that the lesbian police could think of to bully you about.

And it didn't stop online - the bars I went to were full of the same looking people. No one too butch and no one too femme, and if you were then by golly you were sitting at the bar by yourself and chances are you were getting some serious ass stares.

My response? I went to a BDSM bar/club (and forums online). holy shit was that an eye opener. Every single body type, orientation, hell you think of it and it was there. And no one gave a single fucking damn. As long as you followed the protocol and the rules... who gave a shit.

It didn't matter if you were a butch bottom, if you took cock.. if you took cock up the ass.. hell if you took an arm up the ass.. who the fuck cares!! As long as it was consensual (and safe) for both people.

And I admit it - I got used to being in that atmosphere. I forgot about the hating of people who were different than you.

So yeah.. here I am... being reminded. Wow.

Snow - you may not even know it but I owe you an apology. When I first started reading threads I was just blown away (not in a happy fuzzy way lol) at how assertive and aggressive you seemed to be about Femme Cock... I had no idea the bullshit you put up with. You have my apologies.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Tawse,

I too like you found my comfort in the Leather/BDSM world when it came to my gender, who I am, what I am, my sex and kinks. When I hang around my butch,trans,male,women and femme peers amongst this community I don't get shamed or eeewed because I happen to be a Femme Top or because I am proud of my Femme Cock.


Not once have my boys or girl been shamed, dismissed, looked upon as less, criticized, eeewwed because their Ms has a cock.

(BTW there are people here who been incredibly accepting, it's few but they exist and I heart them)

Misogyny, sexism, and machismo are so deeply enrooted in some people that it has leaked into our very own community I find that to be this online community more than the world I live in everyday. I don't know why so many people cling to the binary and heteronormative thinking of what masculine, feminine, cock, femme, butch should be, act like or look like. I don't know why a Femme cock is feared, laughed at, seen as entertainment, riduculed.

Wait, I do know why.. It's continued super imposed heirarchy that continues to be imposed over and over because sex= femme is the receiver only. NO MAS!!!

My aggressiveness and assertiveness is my passion and my fight that I have been doing on these boards for a long time won't end. It's funny how a Femme who is not of a quiet demeanor is viewed this way when protecting or fighthing for her right to also have desires and wants and to be able to freely express them like the butches and ftms on the boards.

We exist, Femme Tops, Bossy girls, Femme's who can rock a cock longer and stronger and sweeter than most, we are here within all the other expressions, desires and kinks that run amok freely without judgement and shame.

Thank you for apologizing and *seeing* that it's not anger, agression that I speak with, it's passion, frustration and WANT that you hear in my voice (words) because damn it my status, my dominance and my cock is just as valid it is not less than just because it's on me a Femme.


PS

I can't even go into how shitty butches, trans guys, boys, bois are treated, it angers me because NOT ONCE is a submissive girl dismissed in the demeanor the boys/bois are. It's just gross homophobic and rude

[Sachita]

I'm feeling a bit isolated these days. I spent a few days away from the farm while Wanton Boi looked after things. To be honest I was feeling pretty predatory (word stolen from a recent conversation with a friend) and needed to project my dominance. Wanton couldn't wait for me to get home so hy could go home and escape the work "I am". Hys words were "I need a few days off." Ok thats cool. But in I was still disappointed. It seems that hy is submissive to me when it suits hym and I've allowed this to happen because it's more then what I had before. These deep feelings in me have awoke and nothing else compares. To be honest I'm a little sad under all that hotness.

Many many moons ago although I did feel comfort in the BDSM community female domination was still frowned upon. My style was spiritual, nurturing and more of an emotional dynamic then physical BDSM play. I had this very strict protocol and it truly was "My way or the highway". I didn't have safewords and my relationships 24/7. Even BDSM'ers found my style a bit unrealistic and concluded that I was full of myself. I enjoy female supremacy as part of my sexual/spiritual scene. I don't really feel that I am superior to everyone else. I just enjoy that whole dynamic with someone. There were few circles I really felt comfortable even within BDSM.

Anyhow I need to sort some things out and was hoping I could share some things here and of course get some feedback. My life, for all intent and purposes, is great! I struggled with a lot of conflict, had a few butch-femme relationships and feel, for the most part, that I know what I want. Still looming is some conflict and fear wondering if what I want truly does exist.

I miss my old life. Especially now with the little dabblings from Wanton Boi. Many parts of me are the same, however I have evolved into a truly multifaceted woman. One who is truly with me needs to be flexible and secure. This is something Wanton is not. I'd like to find something in the middle, if that makes sense. Someone who feels comfortable with me leading and not threatened by it. I love butch boi's but I don't think I can do the stone thing. At the same time I don't always feel the need to wear cock and fuck someone, I prefer being fucked, but if that mood strikes (and it does!) I want them to be receptive.

One of Wanton's biggest complaints about me is that I am often aloof and hard to read. I often am focused on work and I might completely ignore you without thinking about it. I've heard this from others that have served me or been in relationships with. I enjoy my space a lone but I really enjoy someone in the background attending to me. Someone that truly is at my beck and call and enjoys it. Is this selfish?

There are times when I feel a poly relationship, myself and several bottoms, would work best for me. The only problem with this is that I need to "feel" primary and be totally in charge. It doesnt work for me any other way. I don't have jealousy and insecurity like some. It's more of a possession and ownership. Does this make sense?

Finally, I want to explore more of these types of relationships even if they are on a limited basis. Living in the country makes dating so hard as it is. I truly am a subculture within a subculture. Where do you feel is the best place to explore and find others of like mind? Is it me or is it hard finding femme lead folks in the queer community? I would also enjoy a more private venue. I dislike that anyone can come here and read the forums without being registered. Its not that I have anything to hide but prefer my private stuff private.

[The_Lady_Snow]

why not just get a part time service boi or girl without an expectation since you can't commit 100%? Perhaps there is a boy or girl out there that is willing to be around when the mood strikes you and can make themselves available with little maintenance and with the same aloofness you have. It is possible to have this, a boi or girl without a lot of hands on time or grooming time put into them, it can be negotiated as such. Fet life is a good place to look if you are unwilling to do your local BDSM scene. I would have some references ready in case something comes of your search.

I read your thoughts on how the boi you are doing stuff with left after taking care of your place while you vacationed and you were unable to project your dominance on them, I would have to guess it's because maybe hy.he was tired and figured his duties were done and he too needed something which may have been rest.

Have you tried negotiating with present person in your life??

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

why not just get a part time service boi or girl without an expectation since you can't commit 100%? Perhaps there is a boy or girl out there that is willing to be around when the mood strikes you and can make themselves available with little maintenance and with the same aloofness you have. It is possible to have this, a boi or girl without a lot of hands on time or grooming time put into them, it can be negotiated as such. Fet life is a good place to look if you are unwilling to do your local BDSM scene. I would have some references ready in case something comes of your search.

I read your thoughts on how the boi you are doing stuff with left after taking care of your place while you vacationed and you were unable to project your dominance on them, I would have to guess it's because maybe hy.he was tired and figured his duties were done and he too needed something which may have been rest.

Have you tried negotiating with present person in your life??

All good ideas but my brain is muddled. To be honest I probably need to evaluate what I'm actually looking for. I think I need something more intimate. My dominance is part of my love and sex today. Lately I have not explore service only subs but I suppose I could. In the past I was even cool with friendships that had that little "something-something" so I will try and tap into that. This is what Wanton always was for me but this last time things became more intense and emotional.

Yes, I am very clear about my expectations and open to communicate. I am VERY patient and flexible to a degree. Wanton is mentally unstable with some issues with depression. I've always known this and threaded lightly keeping this in mind, however hy has hys own perception and lately keeps changing our relationship. It's getting exhausting. Hy has also been playing these little passive aggressive games to get a reaction from me. I am a "cards on the table" type of woman. If you want something from me you need to ask. I also make it clear what I am willing and not willing to do. Our base arrangement is me paying hys rent, hym coming daily to work and that is the primary base of our relationship. Then we are friends and the days hy chooses to be submissive towards me hy does. It's a bit of a roller coaster and although I don't totally blame hym I would say hy is responsible for the bulk of it.

As for hym being tired.... If that was it then I would certainly understand. Hy had help and not that much to do. Hy has a drug problem and because hy couldn't get stoned while caring for my animals hy was most likely having withdrawals. We agreed for hym to get hys own place and I would help because every night hy would go out onto the deck and get shit faced to the point where hy couldn't even talk to me. I didn't enjoy being around hym like that. If someone wants to get high, go for it. But to get shit faced every night is just not something I want to be around. I am flexible and I believe fair. I am constantly negotiating and shifting my sails. I am a strong and capable woman with a lot of life experience. If I invest in anything I expect something back and when I give more then I get I leave. It's that simple.

There is a part of me that wants to put all this on hold for now because I'm enjoying so much of my life right now. I am in a good space spiritually and emotionally. I'm just not wanting to complicate it. In fact this morning I told Wanton not to come to work and that I needed time to think things over. The past few days I get these weird text msg and this fucked up attitude. I'm not use to so much drama and I'm thinking I don't need that in my life right now.

Thank you for your feedback.

[Sachita]

who here has a fetlife account? If so add me a friend? Sachita

[The_Lady_Snow]

You got some major red flags popping up all over your post:

Wanton is mentally unstable with some issues with depression.

I'll be honest with you, I get people have issues but for *me* as a Master I don't want your issues, I would certainly help out and make sure proper medical care was sought out.

hy has hys own perception and lately keeps changing our relationship

This for me as a Master is NOT acceptable, the person who serves me does not change the relationship I do. Hence why I am in Femme Led relationships perhaps you guys need to talk about his need to keep changing it.

Hy has also been playing these little passive aggressive games

Yeah, this one would get you a kick to the curb first time

the days hy chooses to be submissive towards me hy does.

Once again he is doing the choosing? As a Goddess shouldn't you be the chooser? I'm not being sarcastic I am being 100% honest woman to woman Femme to Femme Domina to Domina, why is this person choosing?

It's a bit of a roller coaster

No fun.

would say hy is responsible for the bulk of it.

That screams volumes that he.hy gotta go

get shit faced to the point where hy couldn't even talk to me. I didn't enjoy being around hym like that


This I am like I partake in the green and I will be honest I can't imagine smokin' to the point of the above statement. No one likes sloppy.


The beauty of these relationships is, we make the calls period, if it's not working we gently escort the person who thought they could occupy the space out the door because frankly who needs that? My mind can not wrap around at the thought continuing in an exchange where my needs are not met period. It's a good idea you did not allow he.hy to come over and taint your space with all this negative interaction and I do hope you take the time to think if you want to continue with the toxicity, I wish you much luck!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

You got some major red flags popping up all over your post:

Wanton is mentally unstable with some issues with depression.

I'll be honest with you, I get people have issues but for *me* as a Master I don't want your issues, I would certainly help out and make sure proper medical care was sought out.

hy has hys own perception and lately keeps changing our relationship

This for me as a Master is NOT acceptable, the person who serves me does not change the relationship I do. Hence why I am in Femme Led relationships perhaps you guys need to talk about his need to keep changing it.

Hy has also been playing these little passive aggressive games

Yeah, this one would get you a kick to the curb first time

the days hy chooses to be submissive towards me hy does.

Once again he is doing the choosing? As a Goddess shouldn't you be the chooser? I'm not being sarcastic I am being 100% honest woman to woman Femme to Femme Domina to Domina, why is this person choosing?

It's a bit of a roller coaster

No fun.

would say hy is responsible for the bulk of it.

That screams volumes that he.hy gotta go

get shit faced to the point where hy couldn't even talk to me. I didn't enjoy being around hym like that


This I am like I partake in the green and I will be honest I can't imagine smokin' to the point of the above statement. No one likes sloppy.


The beauty of these relationships is, we make the calls period, if it's not working we gently escort the person who thought they could occupy the space out the door because frankly who needs that? My mind can not wrap around at the thought continuing in an exchange where my needs are not met period. It's a good idea you did not allow he.hy to come over and taint your space with all this negative interaction and I do hope you take the time to think if you want to continue with the toxicity, I wish you much luck!

all noted.

I guess the point I was also making is that my life is all about negotiation at the same time I have expectations that must be met. Because we were friends with benefits I was more flexible. Normally I am not. Mental illness doesn't always scare me away. I think we're all crazy. I'm also pretty experienced when it comes to dealing with complex emotional issues and scenes within sexual alternatives. There is just a point where my can gets full and I drop you.

I don't expect everything to be perfect. In fact I live in a world that is tolerant of choices, however I am looking to get my needs met. Right now the most wonderful thing that could happen to me, something that would be the icing on the cake would be a sweet boi who would serve me at ANY capacity I see fit. One who needs me as much as I need her/hym

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Sachita

all noted.

I guess the point I was also making is that my life is all about negotiation at the same time I have expectations that must be met. Because we were friends with benefits I was more flexible. Normally I am not. Mental illness doesn't always scare me away. I think we're all crazy. I'm also pretty experienced when it comes to dealing with complex emotional issues and scenes within sexual alternatives. There is just a point where my can gets full and I drop you.


We all come with some emotional baggage, and maybe cause I tend to be a micromanager I feel that one's baggage should be kept neatly in the over head compartment and dealt with in a manner it's not going to constantly be tripping everyone around your life. There's processing time and talk about it time and then there's just time for service, these things can NOT be the over all delegating factors in the exchange cause then honestly no one is getting their needs met if someone doesn't have it together enough to function. That's the key word for *me* can you function, because frankly if you can't no understanding, training, is gonna be able to get a grip of someone's emotional mental roller coaster ride.. Even if our cans are full as the Leads in these types of relationships *we* have to have our shit together and not lead them into our emotional, mental rides it's unfair to them, at that point one is better off alone till one can handle the full time care of a boy.boi.girl it's only fair.

I don't expect everything to be perfect. In fact I live in a world that is tolerant of choices, however I am looking to get my needs met. Right now the most wonderful thing that could happen to me, something that would be the icing on the cake would be a sweet boi who would serve me at ANY capacity I see fit. One who needs me as much as I need her/hym

Then you are going to have to specifically put that out there into the Universe and cultivate those thoughts, wants and desires to the Universe. I would be honest with the boi.boy you are dealing with now and release him.hym of all duties since hy.he is not the one who is goign to do that, it's an emotional, physical, mental yo-yo for hym.him and it could be one more trigger to his depression and need to get sloppy high. I'd seperate myself from him for 30 days and revisit to see if you could have a friendship, that's just me though and not something that you should do if you don't want or you like how things are going.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Then you are going to have to specifically put that out there into the Universe and cultivate those thoughts, wants and desires to the Universe. I would be honest with the boi.boy you are dealing with now and release him.hym of all duties since hy.he is not the one who is goign to do that, it's an emotional, physical, mental yo-yo for hym.him and it could be one more trigger to his depression and need to get sloppy high. I'd seperate myself from him for 30 days and revisit to see if you could have a friendship, that's just me though and not something that you should do if you don't want or you like how things are going.

Yes, exactly. This has been an issue for some time. Today, this morning, I just had enough. At a later date perhaps we can once again be friends but I won't revisit the D/s relationship with hym again.

I had exchanged a few emails with a boi that lives in my state. She's an experienced butch bottom, or so she says. I can normally get a good feel of things by talking. I actually did go log on to collarme, haven't been in in a while and there was a recent email in my inbox. I replied back with my phone number and we talked. In fact we'll meet this weekend. Nothing big, just a casual introduction. I sense that she is looking for a serious one on one with a mistress. I was forthright in that I am just not sure what I'm looking for. With all the drama the past few months I just may slip into fun mode and raise a little hell. lol

So casual and lighthearted would be great for me now. In fact if I had someone to watch the farm and animals I'd have to fly to the reunion and show 'em how it's done. (said in my best southern accent!)

I'd really love some more dialogue on this topic. I feel that women like us are very misunderstood and this makes it hard for people to approach us.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't really have issues with approach outside of this forum it's understood what I want and look for when I am out and about everyday. I think the whole none approachable is a stigma that comes from sexism because there are people that can't handle a Femme/Woman/Female Power source, I figure that shit is on them, I'm the sweetest person if I feel that the intent is good or that you have desire to make some form of connection and commitment to the relationship be it family, friend, or service person. Good luck with the newbie this weekend and good luck over all finding your hearts desire.

It's funny though that a Masculine/Male/Butch led relationship is rarely question and certainly is not stamped with that whole oh hy.she.he is so unaproachable..

[Sachita]

Oh btw Snow, I meant to make a comment about the "green" and getting high.

I honestly have no problems with drugs and alcohol. I do have a problem with abuse and addiction. If someone makes that their choice then thats cool. I just don't enjoy being around that everyday. I also don't get high other then drinking so its hard for me to even relate to that space with someone who is.

If I didn't get so shit faced stoned, want to eat everything in my house I would smoke it. I hate the feeling of being out of control. I hold my liquor pretty good so when I party I drink. If I drink to much I fall asleep.

Wanton would smoke on the deck then try and come in and talk to me about spirit world, aliens and shit. Hy would talk as if hy tapped some other dimension and often insult my intellect without realizing it. Sometimes hy talked in circles and it made no sense. In hys perception tho hy was keenly focused and did everything much better high. I use to let hym clean the house high but hy made more of a mess and I couldn't find anything! lol Hy would do the craziest shit then make me think I lost my mind!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Yeah at that point it would be a limit, I need clear thinking.