12-07-2009, 02:49 PM | #221 | |
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Has anyone here said that? I was just agreeing that some of the language used, taken out of context can seem to be something it is not. Like if (to use Arwen's example) Goofy and Blush had agreed prior to the party that Blush was Goofy's slave for the evening, it would not be sexist if Goofy ordered Blush to bring him a beer. PS. My apologies If I sounded like I was
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12-07-2009, 03:42 PM | #222 | ||||||
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Kosmo, thank you for that. I appreciate the support.
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I dunno how Kosmo took it, but reading your post, it felt personal to me. Please let me explain why? You said in the beginning of your post that Kosmo's choice to post confused you. Two things stand out for me. The first is, early in the thread we as a group said Butch/Trans input was welcome, and we engaged in conversations with the Butches and Transmen who posted. The second is, Blush asked Kosmo a direct question; she specifically asked for that post. Wouldn't have ignoring her been a subtle form of silencing her? It would certainly have been utterly rude! What bothers me now is that to me, personally, it seems like Kosmo has been silenced--and not just Kosmo, but by extension all the Butches/Transmen in this thread. I read all those posts saying "why are we always the ones who are "supportive"? Why can't our partners be supportive?" here is a masculine person being supportive, answering a question asked by someone in the community.... but the response we give is "please don't." I fully admit this is simply how I read it. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it that way, and if so, well, I apologize for derailing the thread. I just know that I do not live in a vacuum and I cannot be authentically me without deeply examining all the parts of my life.... and half the examining comes from without, from testing my own thoughts, perceptions, and opinions up against those of other people. The people I value the most for that examining are always the people in my own community, whatever their identities might happen to be... I am looking always for the thoughts which shed light on my soul, and I find them as often from Butches and Transmen as from Femmes. I don't wish for any of us to be silenced. Please know that I understand your goal for the thread is to have a deep conversation among Femmes; I appreciate your willingness to shepherd this convo... but if Butch/Trans voices are not welcome as part of that conversation, then I think we should be really clear and say so outright to everyone, and we should as a group stop inviting their participation. Quote:
Binaries that have no elastic to them make me sad. Why does it have to be either/or, and so narrowly defined? But that's what society teaches/preaches. Quote:
If you have small children, you may have to pay for that time with cash, to a babysitter. Think about how much you might pay a babysitter... and what that says about your estimate of your own value as a human being. I find most Femmes to be absolutely priceless, value beyond measuring... but someone who is struggling with the whole idea may only believe she herself is worth that five or ten dollars she pays a babysitter. Someone who cannot "justify" paying the babysitter at all? Actions speak louder than words: she believes she is worthless. Whether one has children or not, it's worth thinking about. What message would you want to give to [your] children about the value of adult women? Are they intrinsically priceless? Or are they barely worth the money it would take to pay a babysitter? Quote:
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I utterly HATE it when people assume the more masculine one is automatically the brains of the outfit. [My screen name came from that.] I'm not gonna be with anyone who is not majorly intelligent, since intelligence is a big turn-on for me, but really now.... I am more than just nice. I am more than just a Good Girl. My intelligent partner has some pretty high standards of his own in the Intelligence Department. He is not with me because I'm glamorous, yanno? *eyeroll from the Homespun girl* Quote:
I also know that I use my own clothing choices as a shield. I also use just being partnered as a shield. I would never go into a bar wearing "flirty feminine" clothes if I did not want to come out of the bar on someone's arm. That would just be asking for hassles, yanno? But if I am with my partner, I can dress any way I choose; it's safe. I think you answered your own question. It is your Inner Femme asserting Herself, claiming Her own power. |
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12-07-2009, 03:56 PM | #223 |
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Dear Poodle,
Please tell June that I am "not Butch enough" to completely dispense with question marks. I would tell her myself, but I am afraid I might offend Kat. Sincerely, Cheeky Femme |
12-07-2009, 04:10 PM | #224 |
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Bit Bit, you make so much sense!
I am so laughing about you and your pony play! *grin* I do the question mark thing too. UGH. The what we wear to the bar thing makes sense. It is totally asking for a hassle to wear something girly to the bar alone...so I resort to hanging my keys off my Levis, as if to say..."whatch, it I can poke your eyes out if you hassle me." and Intelligence? My Femme is smart. So there!
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12-07-2009, 04:10 PM | #225 |
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My Femme wants to talk about her "good girl" but is feeling emotionally spent today so is marking her place instead.
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12-07-2009, 04:16 PM | #226 |
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12-07-2009, 04:18 PM | #227 |
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{{{{{{{{{{{Dusa}}}}}}}}}}} Hope your energy builds back quickly!
Now Jen.... there is NO pony play. "Baby-Butch In Training" is not about horses.... and yanno, she ain't about bein' sweet either, lol.... she's gonna get up on that ladder and FIX that ceiling fan, even if she *does* need a little help climbing down again. Hey, that's a balance issue, not a girl thing. |
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12-07-2009, 04:21 PM | #228 |
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I didn't interpret e's response to Kosmo as personal. I read it as (even if the question was asked) it felt uncomfortable to e to have a butch speak on Femme and how a Femme can change perception. Because it's not something a Butch could know. Just as a femme cannot speak to how a Butch can change perceptions or roles. Each are unique.
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12-07-2009, 04:26 PM | #229 | |
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*Bit: i tried to get your font when i quoted you, but i had to guess. sorry for altering it. * |
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12-07-2009, 04:43 PM | #230 | |
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Or maybe the situation made me cry. Lemme see what I can muster. (I always want to write "mustard" here because it's funnier but the Virgo in me cringes when I fuck up euphamisms) Today I am sitting here at my desk at work where I really should be working but I am instead swirling in some heavy emotions and doing a lot of internal processing. I am listening to Angie Aparao on my ipod and he's doing a great cover of "Champagne Supernova" and maybe the pitch of his voice was just right or maybe it's the melody or the words but as I was reading your post, Adele, he sang the line "Where were you while we were getting high?" and he took the last note way, WAY out. The kind of sound where your heart is stretched thin like a piece of pink bubblegum and it feels the emotion of want and need and sound congealed behind notes and pulse. So I cried. Because I am overwhelmed. Because I am sad. Because I am resolute. Because I am afraid. Because I am no longer afraid. I have spent most of last night and today writing my resignation letter from a group that I have belonged to for 4 years. A group that has done important work that is specific to my way of being that I have always felt incredibly strongly about supporting. I came to a place at some point in the last several months where I realized that I had to step away. I came to a place over the last couple of weeks where I knew that stepping away would be scary. Over the last couple of days, I realized it would be painful. Over the last several hours I have felt a range of emotions from anger to resolve to sadness to something that feels like mourning. I have been all at once afraid of the reactions of my fellow committee members and resolute to not care. I have struggled with being authentic and direct without being unecessarily hurtful. I have thought hard about my involvement with the organization and what it will mean to the friendships that exist inside of and outside of that space when I leave. My leaving centers around some ugly stuff. Mostly stuff that is outside of my control. Mostly stuff that is hurtful to the scope of the organization. I am weary y'all. Weary to the core of my being. I have for so long operated by trying to be authentic and honest but also on some level ,with a fear of confronting. Its hard. The "good girl" in me who says to "sit down, keep silent, smooth your dress, dont make waves, dont tell what you know" is very much at odds with the spiritual being in me that says "speak your truth, speak it clearly, demand transparency, demand honesty, stand up for truth". This conflict has created a weird dichotomy in me in the last 2 days. One where I want to just vomit up a bunch of stuff in my resignation letter to show that I am leaving because things got too fucked up for me to be part of. Part of me wants to "go quietly into that good night". Part of me feels that either of these options would not be good. Part of me knows that there will be huge backlash for calling uncomfortable things out and shining a light on ugly truths. I guess I came to this thread because I have often felt such peace in the arms of other Femmes. Such understanding. Such graceful beauty and love. And I need those things today to help the girl in me who is scared to speak to find her voice. And I needed to remember that I am not a horrible person for seeking the truth. Thank you, Adele. I will be creating a new journey for myself by leaving this organization and speaking out. There will be broken friendships and pain and I dont want to be silent out of fear anymore. I am asking for some love here. Its often been hard for me to ask for help when I need it. So, this is me, asking you, my Femme sisters, to send me some courage. This might be out of place here. I apologize for taking up space if it is. Much love. Last edited by Medusa; 12-07-2009 at 04:58 PM. |
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12-07-2009, 04:53 PM | #231 | |
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We do not know one another well, though I believe as the Universe has provided for us both... We will learn about one another and develop as time passes. So, here I sit before you as your femme sister, offering you my love and support for the great courage you will be facing and reminding you ever so sweetly, that you Dear Medusa, are not alone. Love, Julie |
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12-07-2009, 04:54 PM | #232 |
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Well, like I said Adele, apretty, maybe it's just my perception. Maybe I've been silenced so many times that I'm really sensitive to it.
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12-07-2009, 05:03 PM | #233 |
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Medusa, embarking on new journeys and speaking ones truth can often lead to grief. You are grieving, and I want you to know that I applaud you for that. So often as Femme's and as Women we are not allowed to grieve.
You are on amazing human being. Thank you for being brave. Now put your right hand on your left shoulder and your left hand on your right shoulder. Squeeze. That is a collective Femme hug that is holding you tight as you embark. As you speak. As you give yourself permission to FEEL. We all hold you in our hearts. with love, Adele |
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12-07-2009, 05:10 PM | #234 |
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{{{{{{{{{{{Dusa}}}}}}}}}}}
Big love to you, my sister Femme, for your courage and your grace, for your generosity, and for your willingness to recognize limits and endings. Big love to you for being willing to say you are afraid, have been afraid, want to stop being afraid, have acted in spite of being afraid. Big love to you, oh Medusa of the scary name and vulnerable heart, for being you. What you are doing might hurt like all hell but you are doing what is right for you and that is okay. You're supposed to. Yes, you will mourn. Who doesn't mourn the end of a dream, especially the kind of dream that sustains us through the long lonelinesses and promises to build brighter tomorrows? Who doesn't mourn the loss of a community, however large or small, that fits us, that we wish would fit us forever? Who doesn't mourn the loss of friends? I suppose there are probably those among us who are able to be fully honest and authentic and also never have to deal with fear of confrontations... but I am not one of them; my authentic self still shies away from conflict, and so I hold you close, Dusa, close in my heart, because I recognize how hard it is to do the thing which you are doing and my heart aches for you even as it makes space for you. Be strong, sweet one, and keep faith with yourself. Remember that the strong can cry, can ask for help, can ask for support, can ask for love. It is your resolve that makes you strong, and your willingness to do what is painful but necessary. Your tears cannot make you anything less than a strong proud authentic honest Femme, doing what she knows is right. Bright Blessings, Sister. My heart to you and my tears for you, Cath |
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12-07-2009, 05:12 PM | #235 | |
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Hugs to you! I have found that speaking my truth, but only the truth is the way to go for me. Be kind, unemotional and only write the truth. You are an incredibly strong brave woman and you can do this! Look at all you have accomplished in the past year. You can do anything you set your mind to!
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12-07-2009, 06:59 PM | #236 |
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Truth with tact and timing is what I always think about when trying to work through something... I also ask myself several questions...especially when dealing with hurt or anger...
1. Who is the truth for? 2. Will they even hear it? 3. Is the purpose of telling the "truth" (because even truth is subjective, colored by our own perceptions of what the truth may be) to harm or heal? 4. Will telling the truth change anything for the better other than make me feel justified? I have quit several groups in my life (and people) for many reasons. I seldom give a reason because I don't have to, or because I felt the ethics was not even there for them to even hear the issues. I have to admit that there are times when I have had to say, "ENOUGH" and moved on with as much self dignity as possible. I think that we perceive that we have to justify our actions or needs...and we don't...just resign and leave with your head held high and your ethics clean and clear. You go girl, and remember that you are powerful inside and that is what matters and stopping involvement is not a failure but an opportunity for growth and change. You can't keep pouring water in a full cup, it just gets messy, you have to empty it before you can refill it with another flavor. One that may be much more tasty!
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12-07-2009, 07:05 PM | #237 |
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I've walked away from people with no explanation.
The thing is, speaking ones truth is important. Not "the ONLY truth" but ones truth. I will no longer let anybody write my history for me. When I speak my truth I lift the veils of silence that bad people and bad situations thrive on much the way one thrives on oxygen. By NOT speaking my truth I become party to things I don't want to be party to. I become complacent and IMHO that has a ripple effect on the Universe. Silence = Death (on the installment plan). |
12-07-2009, 07:10 PM | #238 |
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Medusa, you are fierce as fuck and anyone who's met you for a minute knows it. I only wish that you could deliver your letter in person, with a hip-sway and a hair-flip (cuz you got it like that).
(Authentic-Me says: Letting go is work, sometimes daily, sometimes on the hour and not everyone is in the same *place* -spiritually/emotionally- at the same time (therefore unable to hear uncomfortable stuffs), and in the end your only obligation is that you must be able to answer to *your fine-ass self*.) |
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12-07-2009, 07:25 PM | #239 | |
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"I'd be interested to hear from y'all what YOU(and by You I mean all y'all, not YOU personally, Kosmo) can do to change how we are perceived." To me, it appears that she is asking femmes to answer her question, and politely asking Kosmo not to speak to a question s/he could not speak to. I would not go into the Female-id'd Butch Thread and offer my opinion on how they change the way they are perceived, nor a Transfolk thread, etc. and do the same. Kosmo and I have talked, and I feel that we're good with each other about this. Kosmo's extremely respectful, and only intended to be with her/his post (which I knew). I needed to say what I did, though, not to/at Kosmo necessarily, but at the idea that anyone can answer for us. I see this happening all the time. To allow it without speaking to it just isn't in my makeup. To this: "What bothers me now is that to me, personally, it seems like Kosmo has been silenced--and not just Kosmo, but by extension all the Butches/Transmen in this thread. I read all those posts saying "why are we always the ones who are "supportive"? Why can't our partners be supportive?" here is a masculine person being supportive, answering a question asked by someone in the community.... but the response we give is "please don't." I felt that because a butch person had been the first to answer a question that only we could answer for ourselves, it may have felt silencing to feminine people. I don't buy into a Kumbaya theory of togetherness in which we all have to stand up for one another 100% of the time so that no one's toes get stepped on. I don't wish to step on anyone, don't misread me. But if I'm always protecting someone else's toes, it's likely mine are not going to be well looked after, nor yours. And here, in this thread, I'm lookin' after mine and yours. I named a general atmosphere when I wrote the OP. It's masculine-centric all up in here. I can walk into a thread about the most inane subject and whamo! There it is. What I need now, is for butches and transmen to listen. And when they do speak, because it is welcome, is for their words to, yes, be supportive. And if I see that a problematic structure exists within those words, one maybe everyone else ain't lookin' at, I'm going to name it. It may not "feel" like my old way of supporting, but it is still a kind of love. And, Bit, I believe it is a more authentic kind of love. It is one that says, this is really what I need to hear. I want for my sisters and me to be truly seen. And I promise to return you the favor. Only then, I believe, can we know each other for the people we are, less the roles, minus the expectations. Only then, can we decide whether the support we summarily give is worth something.
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12-07-2009, 07:38 PM | #240 | |
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First of all, being that we are Southern, we manufacture The Best Euphemisms, so you have no business letting yourself go all Virgo. Second of all, if'n it is femme love you need, you clearly came to right space. And honey, grief and heartache aside, it sounds like you have made the right decision for you. Besides, you're busier than a cat covering crap on a marble floor. You don't have time for anything that sucks your soul. I love you out-right. Julie
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