Unconditional Love... is it really unconditional?

WolfyOne · 03-19-2010, 09:14 PM

Personally, I think only animals and little children can give unconditional love because they depend on us. No matter how you treat them, they'll always come back because they need you. As children get older, they learn to fend for themselves and unconditional love will no longer exist. Seems as we grow older, if you can't accept the good, bad and ugly in a partner, you'll never be able to give or receive unconditional love.

Passionaria · 03-19-2010, 10:58 PM

Unconditional love, is akin to purity of heart. It is a completely unselfish state of love. It isn't dependent on receiving anything in return. I agree that children and animals have this, also many Mothers. My children have tested me in about every way possible, and what it had taught me is that the love I have for them isn't dependent on who they choose to be, even how they act, or what they achieve. The love I have for them exists before any of that. I may not always like what they do, but no matter what, I love them, and would move heaven and earth on their behalf.

It's harder to feel that for someone you didn't give birth to, but I do believe it is possible. You have to be careful not to damage the Love before it grows strong, though.

Pashi

Cyclopea · 03-19-2010, 11:02 PM

It exists.

key · 03-19-2010, 11:21 PM

I don't want to live in a world where I believe there is not unconditional love. Yes, between humans.

I think we all love as best we can and I do believe that the highest, purist, most unconditional love is available to and for all of us whether we choose to experience it or not.

As I said before I have a had fleeting moments of it myself, and I think if I consciously practiced it more often (prayer, meditation and action) I could experience it more often. And also like I said before, I think it all starts with forgiveness, simply letting go of wishing anything were different. Accepting everyone and everything as is.

Marianne Williamson said: We are not held back by the love we didn't receive in the past, but by the love we're not extending in the present.

adorable · 03-20-2010, 02:41 AM

I can say with absolute certainty that no matter what my kids may ever do - my love for them would never change. I might not approve of whatever it is...and trust me I've already been there with the big one. lol. They are my kids, my heart and my purpose for being on this earth. For whatever shortcomings I might see in them, I think that means I have failed them in significant ways - yet they still love me. I would never tell them who or what they have to be for me to love them.

In my family I am probably closest to my grandparents. We have never spoken of my queerness. It was just understood. Do they love me? I suppose. I think they do it the only way they know how. To expect more of them doesn't seem fair. They're old. They believe what they believe. It would be disrespectful of me to try to change them in the same way it would be for them to try and change me. I don't like some of the choices they make either. I love them though and would do anything for them.

I have learned unconditional love from my kids. They taught me that. Because of them I can love my close friends unconditionally, my brother and even my grandparents. I certainly didn't have it from my mother growing up. There was nowhere else I would have learned it from. No matter what the significant people in my life may do - my love for them is always there.

julieisafemme · 03-20-2010, 11:01 AM

What an excellent thread. Thank you for starting it.

I believe unconditional love is something we aspire too every day. Some days I am pretty good and others not so much. I, like others who have posted, have learned and experienced unconditional love through my child. It's easier to see the twists and turns of behavior and hurt and anger in children. You can stay above it and not take it personally so that you can be there for them. That has helped me learn the skills to try it on adults. It is hard! Let me tell you it is easier to respond in anger than in love. But when I can check myself and look at my Mom or brother or partner and respond with love it completely transforms the interaction. It is kind of magical!

zannadyke · 03-21-2010, 08:57 PM

I guess I believe in "unconditional love" to a point... For example, I will ALWAYS love my mom. I know she doesn't see eye to eye with me about many things, and will argue me to death about my lifestyle and life choices, but she is always there for me when I need her, and I know I can always count on her, just as she knows I can always count on her. With her, her love and giving comes with a price, she wants certain things in return... like things that she feels she needs to have some control over in my life, which i won't get into... but the deep down love that caring for me should I ever need it, should I ever be in trouble, should I ever be ill... that's ALWAYS there and it's there for me regarding her. I think deep down, THAT is what unconditional love is. I don't believe my mom would ever disown me based on a disagreement, nor would I disown her either. I feel the same way about my kids... they may disappoint me with choices they make in life or by saying things or other... but I will always love them no matter what.

hippieflowergirl · 03-21-2010, 10:04 PM

i think people are afraid to love unconditionally because loving unconditionally is hard...or because it sounds airyfairy and impossible. or worse...because of the inevitable pain involved in doing so.

being afraid of being hurt is a cop out. of course you're going to be hurt! you're in love with a human being arent you? who the hell are we to demand that no one hurt us? how can we tell people they have to be perfect when we havent managed it yet? i cannot understand the "you hurt me so now you're not trustworthy" mentality.

how anemic is the love that walks away when things get hard?

before you dust off your indignation...i'm not talking about domestic violence or choices that jeopardize safety. i'm talking about the human beings who fuck up, plain and simple, (and we ALL do it) and then find themselves suddenly single because the love they were part of couldnt hold up under pressure. it's anemic. that's the only word for it. anemic.

glass houses baby. glass houses.

"People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how perfect love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. That's honest. Give me that kind of love" Jim Morrison

SassyLeo · 03-20-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfyOne

Personally, I think only animals and little children can give unconditional love because they depend on us. No matter how you treat them, they'll always come back because they need you. As children get older, they learn to fend for themselves and unconditional love will no longer exist. Seems as we grow older, if you can't accept the good, bad and ugly in a partner, you'll never be able to give or receive unconditional love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Unconditional love, is akin to purity of heart. It is a completely unselfish state of love. It isn't dependent on receiving anything in return. I agree that children and animals have this, also many Mothers. My children have tested me in about every way possible, and what it had taught me is that the love I have for them isn't dependent on who they choose to be, even how they act, or what they achieve. The love I have for them exists before any of that. I may not always like what they do, but no matter what, I love them, and would move heaven and earth on their behalf.

It's harder to feel that for someone you didn't give birth to, but I do believe it is possible. You have to be careful not to damage the Love before it grows strong, though.

Pashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by adorable

I can say with absolute certainty that no matter what my kids may ever do - my love for them would never change. I might not approve of whatever it is...and trust me I've already been there with the big one. lol. They are my kids, my heart and my purpose for being on this earth. For whatever shortcomings I might see in them, I think that means I have failed them in significant ways - yet they still love me. I would never tell them who or what they have to be for me to love them.

In my family I am probably closest to my grandparents. We have never spoken of my queerness. It was just understood. Do they love me? I suppose. I think they do it the only way they know how. To expect more of them doesn't seem fair. They're old. They believe what they believe. It would be disrespectful of me to try to change them in the same way it would be for them to try and change me. I don't like some of the choices they make either. I love them though and would do anything for them.

I have learned unconditional love from my kids. They taught me that. Because of them I can love my close friends unconditionally, my brother and even my grandparents. I certainly didn't have it from my mother growing up. There was nowhere else I would have learned it from. No matter what the significant people in my life may do - my love for them is always there.

As much as my friends tease me about being a mother (as in, they used to buy me Mother's Day cards ), and there is definitely a caretaker and mothering instinct in me, I am not a mother...and could not speak from this perspective.

But I am sure my mother could. When I think about it this way...well, I know that my parents love(d) me completely unconditionally. I am sure I *tested* them many a time. And they still loved me. And I am sure they taught me to also love this way. I admire you parents in this way. Do you think you would still love them unconditionally if they did something really awful? I guess it is hard to say "what if"....

I think about friends whom I've had over the years who have done things which I did not agree with, but I still loved them. I guess, unconditionally. I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

Passionaria · 03-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Do you think you would still love them unconditionally if they did something really awful? I guess it is hard to say "what if"....

I think about friends whom I've had over the years who have done things which I did not agree with, but I still loved them. I guess, unconditionally. I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

Hi SassyLeo, sounds like you have wonderful parents! No wonder you are so lovely

Unfortunately, I can answer this, yes even when they mess up big time.....
As far as friends go? I personally don't think it is a good idea to love "everyone" unconditionally, just the ones who have proven themselves worthy of such a special gift. Unconditional integrity, yes, love no......

Pashi

Bit · 03-20-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

Do you still love them? If you do, then I would say, no you weren't withholding love, even if you withdrew from the relationships.

For me, there is a difference between "loving someone unconditionally" and "accepting all their behaviors without question"... I believe it's certainly possible to love someone unconditionally, even if I have to tell them, "for the sake of my own mental health, I cannot be around your dysfunctional behaviors right now."

I think it's also possible to say, "I love you unconditionally, and for the sake of that love, I cannot allow you to behave badly without consequences." I believe this is the concept that Tough Love is built on--as well as the concept good parenting is built on.

adorable · 03-20-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

As much as my friends tease me about being a mother (as in, they used to buy me Mother's Day cards ), and there is definitely a caretaker and mothering instinct in me, I am not a mother...and could not speak from this perspective.

But I am sure my mother could. When I think about it this way...well, I know that my parents love(d) me completely unconditionally. I am sure I *tested* them many a time. And they still loved me. And I am sure they taught me to also love this way. I admire you parents in this way. Do you think you would still love them unconditionally if they did something really awful? I guess it is hard to say "what if"....

I think about friends whom I've had over the years who have done things which I did not agree with, but I still loved them. I guess, unconditionally. I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

"Really awful" is such a relative term depending on the family. I could say with 100% certainty that even if they killed someone, tortured a puppy, killed a baby seal, poked out my left eye.....lol...that I would love them no matter what! I wouldn't like any of those things....just like I don't like my oldest daughters current facial piercing trend...but that's my kid - even if she can't make it thru a metal detector.

Bit is right that it is possible to love unconditionally and for your own mental stability cut someone out of your life. In fact sometimes the most loving thing you can do is walk away. There is a line between enabling and loving.

AtLast · 03-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Yes, unconditional love exists. I did experience it as a child and give it to my own kid and he came to me via a family death. However, there are so many that have not felt this kind of love from parents and family. Sure, I pushed some limits.

I think unconditional love with a relationship is possible, but not probable and shouldn't be. We all have deal-breakers that allow us to be true to ourselves and avoid abusive situations. At least, I hope we all do... marriage/partnerships are not the same as parenting and for the life of me, I don't get why some people believe unconditional love in relationships is healthy. Perhaps, the love felt will never leave (but transforms), but, if someone is not really a good match and a healthy steady-state can't be achieved, love can remain, but the relationship is not the best it can be and we all deserve the best it can be!

03-19-2010, 09:14 PM	#1
WolfyOne Magically Delicious How Do You Identify?: Gentle Butch Relationship Status: Single and content Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 6,558 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,052 Thanked 15,407 Times in 4,138 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Personally, I think only animals and little children can give unconditional love because they depend on us. No matter how you treat them, they'll always come back because they need you. As children get older, they learn to fend for themselves and unconditional love will no longer exist. Seems as we grow older, if you can't accept the good, bad and ugly in a partner, you'll never be able to give or receive unconditional love. __________________ Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone deeply gives you courage --- Lao Tzo

03-19-2010, 10:58 PM	#2
Passionaria Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Urban Bohemian : http://youtu.be/IM96Ch9Gx4A Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: She ran away with with the Gypsy's ✿ Posts: 2,519 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,316 Thanked 3,735 Times in 1,249 Posts Rep Power: 16689909	In my mind........ Unconditional love, is akin to purity of heart. It is a completely unselfish state of love. It isn't dependent on receiving anything in return. I agree that children and animals have this, also many Mothers. My children have tested me in about every way possible, and what it had taught me is that the love I have for them isn't dependent on who they choose to be, even how they act, or what they achieve. The love I have for them exists before any of that. I may not always like what they do, but no matter what, I love them, and would move heaven and earth on their behalf. It's harder to feel that for someone you didn't give birth to, but I do believe it is possible. You have to be careful not to damage the Love before it grows strong, though. Pashi __________________ *Moon cat madness*

03-19-2010, 11:02 PM	#3
Cyclopea Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Lesbian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Exit Zero Posts: 1,267 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,694 Thanked 1,617 Times in 633 Posts Rep Power: 226199	It exists. __________________ http://forum.axishistory.com/images/...arious/eye.jpg

03-19-2010, 11:21 PM	#4
key Member How Do You Identify?: androgynous, gender-queer, butch Preferred Pronoun?: depends on person addressing me Relationship Status: merrily single hopefully married one day Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: san francisco, ca and chama, nm Posts: 197 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 59 Thanked 427 Times in 136 Posts Rep Power: 885763	I don't want to live in a world I don't want to live in a world where I believe there is not unconditional love. Yes, between humans. I think we all love as best we can and I do believe that the highest, purist, most unconditional love is available to and for all of us whether we choose to experience it or not. As I said before I have a had fleeting moments of it myself, and I think if I consciously practiced it more often (prayer, meditation and action) I could experience it more often. And also like I said before, I think it all starts with forgiveness, simply letting go of wishing anything were different. Accepting everyone and everything as is. Marianne Williamson said: We are not held back by the love we didn't receive in the past, but by the love we're not extending in the present. __________________ http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ariation6t.jpg

03-21-2010, 08:57 PM	#7
zannadyke Junior Member How Do You Identify?: butch, genderbender, queer, fag-boy Preferred Pronoun?: I'm flexible Relationship Status: in love with a trans-dude! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 44 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1 Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts Rep Power: 292428	I guess I believe in "unconditional love" to a point... For example, I will ALWAYS love my mom. I know she doesn't see eye to eye with me about many things, and will argue me to death about my lifestyle and life choices, but she is always there for me when I need her, and I know I can always count on her, just as she knows I can always count on her. With her, her love and giving comes with a price, she wants certain things in return... like things that she feels she needs to have some control over in my life, which i won't get into... but the deep down love that caring for me should I ever need it, should I ever be in trouble, should I ever be ill... that's ALWAYS there and it's there for me regarding her. I think deep down, THAT is what unconditional love is. I don't believe my mom would ever disown me based on a disagreement, nor would I disown her either. I feel the same way about my kids... they may disappoint me with choices they make in life or by saying things or other... but I will always love them no matter what. __________________ “Life is too short to spend your precious time trying to convince a person who wants to live in gloom and doom otherwise. Give lifting that person your best shot, but don’t hang around long enough for his or her bad attitude to pull you down. Instead surround yourself with optimistic people.” Zig Ziglar

03-20-2010, 02:41 AM	#5
adorable Member How Do You Identify?: Sarcastically Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Home of the Yankee's Posts: 752 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,708 Thanked 2,645 Times in 590 Posts Rep Power: 12725118	I can say with absolute certainty that no matter what my kids may ever do - my love for them would never change. I might not approve of whatever it is...and trust me I've already been there with the big one. lol. They are my kids, my heart and my purpose for being on this earth. For whatever shortcomings I might see in them, I think that means I have failed them in significant ways - yet they still love me. I would never tell them who or what they have to be for me to love them. In my family I am probably closest to my grandparents. We have never spoken of my queerness. It was just understood. Do they love me? I suppose. I think they do it the only way they know how. To expect more of them doesn't seem fair. They're old. They believe what they believe. It would be disrespectful of me to try to change them in the same way it would be for them to try and change me. I don't like some of the choices they make either. I love them though and would do anything for them. I have learned unconditional love from my kids. They taught me that. Because of them I can love my close friends unconditionally, my brother and even my grandparents. I certainly didn't have it from my mother growing up. There was nowhere else I would have learned it from. No matter what the significant people in my life may do - my love for them is always there.

03-20-2010, 11:01 AM	#6
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,445 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	What an excellent thread. Thank you for starting it. I believe unconditional love is something we aspire too every day. Some days I am pretty good and others not so much. I, like others who have posted, have learned and experienced unconditional love through my child. It's easier to see the twists and turns of behavior and hurt and anger in children. You can stay above it and not take it personally so that you can be there for them. That has helped me learn the skills to try it on adults. It is hard! Let me tell you it is easier to respond in anger than in love. But when I can check myself and look at my Mom or brother or partner and respond with love it completely transforms the interaction. It is kind of magical!

03-21-2010, 10:04 PM	#8
hippieflowergirl Member How Do You Identify?: ~ Preferred Pronoun?: ~ Relationship Status: ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ~ Posts: 424 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 461 Thanked 466 Times in 176 Posts Rep Power: 274205	i think people are afraid to love unconditionally because loving unconditionally is hard...or because it sounds airyfairy and impossible. or worse...because of the inevitable pain involved in doing so. being afraid of being hurt is a cop out. of course you're going to be hurt! you're in love with a human being arent you? who the hell are we to demand that no one hurt us? how can we tell people they have to be perfect when we havent managed it yet? i cannot understand the "you hurt me so now you're not trustworthy" mentality. how anemic is the love that walks away when things get hard? before you dust off your indignation...i'm not talking about domestic violence or choices that jeopardize safety. i'm talking about the human beings who fuck up, plain and simple, (and we ALL do it) and then find themselves suddenly single because the love they were part of couldnt hold up under pressure. it's anemic. that's the only word for it. anemic. glass houses baby. glass houses. "People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how perfect love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. That's honest. Give me that kind of love" Jim Morrison

03-20-2010, 01:36 PM	#13
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Yes, unconditional love exists. I did experience it as a child and give it to my own kid and he came to me via a family death. However, there are so many that have not felt this kind of love from parents and family. Sure, I pushed some limits. I think unconditional love with a relationship is possible, but not probable and shouldn't be. We all have deal-breakers that allow us to be true to ourselves and avoid abusive situations. At least, I hope we all do... marriage/partnerships are not the same as parenting and for the life of me, I don't get why some people believe unconditional love in relationships is healthy. Perhaps, the love felt will never leave (but transforms), but, if someone is not really a good match and a healthy steady-state can't be achieved, love can remain, but the relationship is not the best it can be and we all deserve the best it can be!