NY Gov. starting a tax war with Native Americans

morningstar55 · 08-31-2010, 06:40 AM

Gov. Paterson Thursday warned of possible "violence and death" as a result of his plan to collect a $4.35-per-pack tax on smokes sold by American Indian stores.

"There will be quite an uprising and protest to this, but I am going to maintain this policy," Paterson told WOR-AM.

"This is a very dangerous situation," the governor said. "There is - I think - a high alert. The state police tell us over and over again that there could be violence and death as a result of some of the measures we're taking."

Previous attempts to impose the cigarette tax - under governors Mario Cuomo and George Pataki - led to protests that sometimes turned ugly.

In 1997, American Indians burned tires on the New York State Thruway - and shut down a 30-mile stretch of the highway.

Some troopers were hurt in scuffles during the demonstrations, but there was no record of any deaths or serious wounds, state cops said Thursday.

A spokesman declined to say if the state police would ramp up security in anticipation of problems when the tax goes into effect next Wednesday.

"We won't speculate about any potential for protests," Sgt. Kern Swoboda said. "Are we trained to deal with riot control and other situations like that? Absolutely."

While Seneca Indian Nation President Barry Snyder called for nonviolence, other members of the 7,000-strong nation vowed to do whatever necessary to block the Sept. 1 start of tax collection.

"Let's start setting up some fires here and there just to let the public know that we are serious and we are ready to battle if this is what it is going to come to," read one post on the Seneca Voice blog.

"I don't want violence, as our way is to be of peace, but if the state of New York wants our money, if they want our freedom then let them come in and get it."

A Seneca spokeswoman said the blog is not officially sanctioned by the tribe.

The American Indians claim they are sovereign nations, citing 18th century treaties, and therefore free of any state-imposed taxes.

The state expects to generate an additional $200 million a year through the tax, which applies only to cigarettes sold by the tribe to non-Indian customers.

Tribe members can still buy the cigarettes from reservation stores without paying the extra tariff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/..._fretting.html

waxnrope · 08-31-2010, 06:49 AM

Thanks for sharing this, Morningstar55. It dovetails, in its own way, the discussions on the race and racism thread, IMO.

Rockinonahigh · 08-31-2010, 07:01 AM

I do hope the violence dosent happen,if they r going to tax ciggys they shoould tax across the bord.Im a life long smoker who has quit because of the cost + of health reasons(asthma) so if I can quit anyone can,beleave me its wasnt easy...nicotine is a wicked bitch..it kills and dosent care who dies from it the smoker or someone near by.What took the place of ciggys..red hotts candy..works just fine.Hear ciggys went up to $7.00 bucks a pack and steady going up..I refuse to see $$$ go up in smoke with nada to show for it but an empty pacl to put in the trash.I was two packs a day wich means I spent $98.00 a week on ciggys..figure it up over a year...$5.096.00..yeah lotta money that can go for better things.

morningstar55 · 08-31-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

I do hope the violence dosent happen,if they r going to tax ciggys they shoould tax across the bord.Im a life long smoker who has quit because of the cost + of health reasons(asthma) so if I can quit anyone can,beleave me its wasnt easy...nicotine is a wicked bitch..it kills and dosent care who dies from it the smoker or someone near by.What took the place of ciggys..red hotts candy..works just fine.Hear ciggys went up to $7.00 bucks a pack and steady going up..I refuse to see $$$ go up in smoke with nada to show for it but an empty pacl to put in the trash.I was two packs a day wich means I spent $98.00 a week on ciggys..figure it up over a year...$5.096.00..yeah lotta money that can go for better things.

I really dont think this is a race issue I think its just NY goverment being greedy.. not to mention that Gov Patterson is legaly Blind...
I hear ya on the $$ part Rock..... i dont smoke... everyone in my family does except me and 1 brother..... I have 4 brothers.
but this is not just about the expense of cigg's alone..... this is all about how the Governor of NY state and what he is trying to push on the Native Americans there..... ya know they tried this with them in the 80's which caused the closing of a major interstate that goes thru there land...... plus that interstate is a TOLL road..... gawwd. that NY is getting money from.
I think the Native Americans there ought to set up there OWN toll booths.
im having a hard time finding some news from when there was a huge up rising bk in the 1980's and the closing of the interstate..
here's a link about it.....
http://www.tobaccobymail.com/PATAKI.htm

The_Lady_Snow · 08-31-2010, 08:02 AM

Unfortunately MS it is about racism as well, look how this person has depicted and emphasized the *violent outbreaks*

So in the article that is mentioned to induce fear that rioting will likely happen.

Cause yanno any other skin color than white riots.....

morningstar55 · 08-31-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Unfortunately MS it is about racism as well, look how this person has depicted and emphasized the *violent outbreaks*

So in the article that is mentioned to induce fear that rioting will likely happen.

Cause yanno any other skin color than white riots.....

..... but ummm .... the governor is black....
for me i dont care what the skin color is as long as they do right by the people.
I do hear ya Lady.....
my family is kinda mixed...
my niece and nephew are Native American

waxnrope · 08-31-2010, 08:09 AM

Like closing the interstate is a violent act

Medusa · 08-31-2010, 08:10 AM

Native Americans should set up toll booths on every road in this country considering we are all using land that belonged to them in the first place.

The_Lady_Snow · 08-31-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar55

..... but ummm .... the governor is black....
for me i dont care what the skin color is as long as they do right by the people.
I do hear ya Lady.....
my family is kinda mixed...
my niece and nephew are Native American

His prejudices are making the Native Peoples seem violent, pretty much what whites do to POC. It's unfortunate that in the media it's easy to depict people as violent.

It's gross on all accounts.

waxnrope · 08-31-2010, 09:36 AM

It does not matter if the governor is legally blind, or legally black. It does not matter of some of your best friends are native people. What matters is that this is unequivocally WRONG. It is another example of the patterning, the historicity, of the violation of treaties with indigenous people. The rhetoric of violence is a lie. A bald exaggeration, and, given the decimation of native populations, the theft of their land, AND their culture, including their spiritual practices, we should be appalled and outraged, IMO, that another slap in the face is given under the unspoken "common good." Just fries my grits.

Corkey · 08-31-2010, 01:14 PM

Standing with The Seneca Nation, they are a sovereign Nation and therefore are not under this countries tax laws. And yes this is about race, and violence against those who are not under this man's jurisdiction. The governor is setting the stage to unlawfully perpetrate his will on people he does not have authority over.

Ebon · 08-31-2010, 01:30 PM

This is wrong. Native American's are not supposed to be taxed for obvious reasons. Period!

morningstar55 · 09-01-2010, 05:32 PM

GGRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr now this just piss's me off......

Gov wins Indian wrestle on cigs
By JENNIFER FERMINO

With Post Wire Services

Last Updated: 11:57 AM, August 31, 2010

Posted: 2:45 AM, August 31, 2010

Comments: 2 More Print A Buffalo judge sided with Gov. Paterson yesterday and refused to block the state from taxing cigarettes sold on Indian reservations to non-Native Americans.

Paterson wants to start taxing the previously tariff-free tobacco starting tomorrow, but local tribes have mounted a vigorous campaign to stop the taxes, which they consider an attack on their sovereignty.

Lawyers for the Seneca Indian Nation argued that the state didn't properly implement rules outlining how the taxes would be imposed.

But the judge sided with the state, which argued that new regulations allow them to slap taxes on cigarettes sold on Indian reservations, which previously could sell cigs without taxes.

The Senecas also are trying to get the taxes banned in federal court. That challenge is pending.

The cash-strapped state is desperate for the extra revenue the taxes can bring, but Paterson has expressed serious concerns.

"This is a very dangerous situation," he said last week on WOR-AM radio. "There is a, I think, high alert. The State Police tells us over and over again that there could be violence and death as a result of some of the measures we're taking."

In 1997 -- the last time New York tried to force local tribes to pay taxes on cigarettes -- violent protests forced a 30-mile stretch of the Thruway to be closed.

Seneca Nation President Barry Snyder repeatedly said "violence is not on our agenda."

The Senecas say that collecting any taxes on their reservation violates treaties.

jennifer.fermino@nypost.com Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/g...#ixzz0yK7YxZNL

Toughy · 09-01-2010, 05:50 PM

and a federal Judge reverses that decision (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...e-cigarettes):

Judge allows Seneca, Cayuga nations to sell tax-free cigarettes

Diana Louise Carter • Staff writer • September 1, 2010

A federal judge on Tuesday temporarily stopped the latest brinksmanship between the state and Native American nations over the cigarette tax issue, hours before the state was due to begin collecting the sales tax.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Arcara in Buffalo granted a temporary injunction requested by the Seneca and Cayuga nations.

This on-again, off-again tax conflict, which has lasted for more than two decades but has historical roots dating back two centuries, pits a deficit-ridden state government against Native Americans, many of whom have used their sovereign status to sell cigarettes free of state taxes that since July 1 have amounted to $4.35 a pack.

I highly suggest folks read this entire article. There is no talk of violence, no hint of racism and is informative concerning this issue.

Toughy · 09-01-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

This is wrong. Native American's are not supposed to be taxed for obvious reasons. Period!

Actually NA do pay individual federal income tax and have been for a long time.

As far as I can find so do NA business except for a federal excise tax on alcohol and cigarettes.

Trying to figure out the State tax situation is hard, however I'm sure they pay State income tax and obviously business have not been paying a NY State excise tax on cigs sold to anyone on the rez. NY State wants to charge taxes for cigarettes sold to non-Natives on a rez. No NA would be charged the State tax for cigs bought on the rez.

I'm still trying to digest the article I posted above.

Maria · 09-01-2010, 06:19 PM

Regarding posts about the media's fear-mongering and racism, just saw this:

From an AP article
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...nHDVAD9HVBBD80

Last week, a sign was spotted on an overpass on the Tonawanda Band of Senecas' reservation reading: "NYS declares war 9-1-2010. Let the fires begin!"

About 100 people rallied Wednesday on Seneca land along the Thruway, saying they wanted the issue settled peacefully in court, but could be pushed only so far.

"Watch for what we're ready to do. Watch for the other side of the sword, that's all I'm saying," speaker Ross John said as passing tractor-trailers honked in apparent support. "Nobody's going to get hurt unless you try to keep us from enforcing our laws."

08-31-2010, 06:40 AM	#1
morningstar55 Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme,she Preferred Pronoun?: she,her, Relationship Status: very single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: western NY Posts: 3,809 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,280 Thanked 4,241 Times in 1,845 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	NY Gov. starting a tax war with Native Americans Gov. Paterson Thursday warned of possible "violence and death" as a result of his plan to collect a $4.35-per-pack tax on smokes sold by American Indian stores. "There will be quite an uprising and protest to this, but I am going to maintain this policy," Paterson told WOR-AM. "This is a very dangerous situation," the governor said. "There is - I think - a high alert. The state police tell us over and over again that there could be violence and death as a result of some of the measures we're taking." Previous attempts to impose the cigarette tax - under governors Mario Cuomo and George Pataki - led to protests that sometimes turned ugly. In 1997, American Indians burned tires on the New York State Thruway - and shut down a 30-mile stretch of the highway. Some troopers were hurt in scuffles during the demonstrations, but there was no record of any deaths or serious wounds, state cops said Thursday. A spokesman declined to say if the state police would ramp up security in anticipation of problems when the tax goes into effect next Wednesday. "We won't speculate about any potential for protests," Sgt. Kern Swoboda said. "Are we trained to deal with riot control and other situations like that? Absolutely." While Seneca Indian Nation President Barry Snyder called for nonviolence, other members of the 7,000-strong nation vowed to do whatever necessary to block the Sept. 1 start of tax collection. "Let's start setting up some fires here and there just to let the public know that we are serious and we are ready to battle if this is what it is going to come to," read one post on the Seneca Voice blog. "I don't want violence, as our way is to be of peace, but if the state of New York wants our money, if they want our freedom then let them come in and get it." A Seneca spokeswoman said the blog is not officially sanctioned by the tribe. The American Indians claim they are sovereign nations, citing 18th century treaties, and therefore free of any state-imposed taxes. The state expects to generate an additional $200 million a year through the tax, which applies only to cigarettes sold by the tribe to non-Indian customers. Tribe members can still buy the cigarettes from reservation stores without paying the extra tariff. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/..._fretting.html __________________ -------------------------------------------- life is to short to wake up in the morning with regrets so love the people who treat you right, forget about the ones who dont, and believe that everything happens for a reason. If you get a chance take it... if it changes your life let it.

08-31-2010, 08:02 AM	#5
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Unfortunately MS it is about racism as well, look how this person has depicted and emphasized the violent outbreaks So in the article that is mentioned to induce fear that rioting will likely happen. Cause yanno any other skin color than white riots..... __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

08-31-2010, 08:10 AM	#8
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08-31-2010, 01:14 PM	#11
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08-31-2010, 01:30 PM	#12
Ebon Senior Member How Do You Identify?: With my souls eyes. Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: lol Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Here Posts: 3,476 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 10,524 Thanked 11,145 Times in 2,755 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	This is wrong. Native American's are not supposed to be taxed for obvious reasons. Period! __________________ In Lak'ech Ala K'in I'm a Soul Rebel http://wannabereverend.wordpress.com/ Spirituality is not a belief system or ideology, it is the surrender of one's ego to the infinite wisdom and knowledge that is the universe.

08-31-2010, 06:49 AM	#2
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,958 Times in 953 Posts Rep Power: 0	Thanks for sharing this, Morningstar55. It dovetails, in its own way, the discussions on the race and racism thread, IMO.

08-31-2010, 07:01 AM	#3
Rockinonahigh Senior Member How Do You Identify?: stone butch Preferred Pronoun?: makes no diffrence,I know who I am. Relationship Status: single,maybe looking if the right person comes along. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 4,907 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,682 Thanked 14,937 Times in 3,936 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I do hope the violence dosent happen,if they r going to tax ciggys they shoould tax across the bord.Im a life long smoker who has quit because of the cost + of health reasons(asthma) so if I can quit anyone can,beleave me its wasnt easy...nicotine is a wicked bitch..it kills and dosent care who dies from it the smoker or someone near by.What took the place of ciggys..red hotts candy..works just fine.Hear ciggys went up to $7.00 bucks a pack and steady going up..I refuse to see $$$ go up in smoke with nada to show for it but an empty pacl to put in the trash.I was two packs a day wich means I spent $98.00 a week on ciggys..figure it up over a year...$5.096.00..yeah lotta money that can go for better things.

08-31-2010, 08:09 AM	#7
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,958 Times in 953 Posts Rep Power: 0	Like closing the interstate is a violent act

08-31-2010, 09:36 AM	#10
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,958 Times in 953 Posts Rep Power: 0	It does not matter if the governor is legally blind, or legally black. It does not matter of some of your best friends are native people. What matters is that this is unequivocally WRONG. It is another example of the patterning, the historicity, of the violation of treaties with indigenous people. The rhetoric of violence is a lie. A bald exaggeration, and, given the decimation of native populations, the theft of their land, AND their culture, including their spiritual practices, we should be appalled and outraged, IMO, that another slap in the face is given under the unspoken "common good." Just fries my grits.

09-01-2010, 05:32 PM	#13
morningstar55 Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme,she Preferred Pronoun?: she,her, Relationship Status: very single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: western NY Posts: 3,809 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,280 Thanked 4,241 Times in 1,845 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	GGRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr now this just piss's me off...... Gov wins Indian wrestle on cigs By JENNIFER FERMINO With Post Wire Services Last Updated: 11:57 AM, August 31, 2010 Posted: 2:45 AM, August 31, 2010 Comments: 2 More Print A Buffalo judge sided with Gov. Paterson yesterday and refused to block the state from taxing cigarettes sold on Indian reservations to non-Native Americans. Paterson wants to start taxing the previously tariff-free tobacco starting tomorrow, but local tribes have mounted a vigorous campaign to stop the taxes, which they consider an attack on their sovereignty. Lawyers for the Seneca Indian Nation argued that the state didn't properly implement rules outlining how the taxes would be imposed. But the judge sided with the state, which argued that new regulations allow them to slap taxes on cigarettes sold on Indian reservations, which previously could sell cigs without taxes. The Senecas also are trying to get the taxes banned in federal court. That challenge is pending. The cash-strapped state is desperate for the extra revenue the taxes can bring, but Paterson has expressed serious concerns. "This is a very dangerous situation," he said last week on WOR-AM radio. "There is a, I think, high alert. The State Police tells us over and over again that there could be violence and death as a result of some of the measures we're taking." In 1997 -- the last time New York tried to force local tribes to pay taxes on cigarettes -- violent protests forced a 30-mile stretch of the Thruway to be closed. Seneca Nation President Barry Snyder repeatedly said "violence is not on our agenda." The Senecas say that collecting any taxes on their reservation violates treaties. jennifer.fermino@nypost.com Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/g...#ixzz0yK7YxZNL __________________ -------------------------------------------- life is to short to wake up in the morning with regrets so love the people who treat you right, forget about the ones who dont, and believe that everything happens for a reason. If you get a chance take it... if it changes your life let it.

09-01-2010, 05:50 PM	#14
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,656 Times in 1,522 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	and a federal Judge reverses that decision (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...e-cigarettes): Judge allows Seneca, Cayuga nations to sell tax-free cigarettes Diana Louise Carter • Staff writer • September 1, 2010 A federal judge on Tuesday temporarily stopped the latest brinksmanship between the state and Native American nations over the cigarette tax issue, hours before the state was due to begin collecting the sales tax. U.S. District Court Judge Richard Arcara in Buffalo granted a temporary injunction requested by the Seneca and Cayuga nations. This on-again, off-again tax conflict, which has lasted for more than two decades but has historical roots dating back two centuries, pits a deficit-ridden state government against Native Americans, many of whom have used their sovereign status to sell cigarettes free of state taxes that since July 1 have amounted to $4.35 a pack. I highly suggest folks read this entire article. There is no talk of violence, no hint of racism and is informative concerning this issue. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-01-2010, 06:19 PM	#16
Maria Member How Do You Identify?: Regular, with sugar Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 681 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 472 Thanked 1,335 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 21474850	Regarding posts about the media's fear-mongering and racism, just saw this: From an AP article http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...nHDVAD9HVBBD80 Last week, a sign was spotted on an overpass on the Tonawanda Band of Senecas' reservation reading: "NYS declares war 9-1-2010. Let the fires begin!" About 100 people rallied Wednesday on Seneca land along the Thruway, saying they wanted the issue settled peacefully in court, but could be pushed only so far. "Watch for what we're ready to do. Watch for the other side of the sword, that's all I'm saying," speaker Ross John said as passing tractor-trailers honked in apparent support. "Nobody's going to get hurt unless you try to keep us from enforcing our laws."