Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Soft*Silver]

I have dated exes of friends. I have asked my friends first, if that was ok. Protocol. And courtesy.

the problem I see in the case Anya gave us, was the nastiness of those two flirting in front of her friend. Mean People! It was low and spiteful of them to put on a display that they knew would make Anya's friend uncomfortable. If I did date someone's ex, I would be discrete about affection in front of them until I knew everyone involved was ok with it.

I have had new girlfriends of MY exes parade in front of me. But then, I did that to someone once too, for which i am ashamed now of my past action. We learn through our mistakes or we stay bitches. I learned...

[princessbelle]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the fact that when you are thinking about dating someone, you don't know them all that well. At least on an intimate level.

For instance...i could say i would have dated Bully no matter what, 'cause we are a perfect match. Did i know that at the beginning? Nope. I had no clue. As a matter of fact we were/are complete opposites.

So, it's like well if Bully had dated one of my closest friends i would have never even got to the point of really being close enough to her to find out she was perfect for me. Maybe a sad fact, but in my view it would have had to be that way. Also as someone else pointed out, if you are tight with a femme friend, you would most likely know all the diss about the ex and why they broke up anyway and doubtful they would be attractive to begin with.

I remember in high school my bbf was dating a dude named David. I had a crush and honestly only because his parents owned a Duncan Donuts and it was cool. His family was very wealthy and he always had the coolest tennis shoes. They were always bright orange. Oh how i digress. Anyway, she called me one day and said...you like David i don't. You can have him. He went along with that LOL. Only lasted a couple of weeks. It felt awkward. Even though Terry had said it was ok, it didn't feel ok. So i waved goodbye to the tennis shoes with money.

Of course all situations are different and unique.

It really is personal perception and personal opinions of specific situations for sure.

Again, really interesting thread and i've enjoyed reading everyone's pov.

[Martina]

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

[Angeltoes]

Originally Posted by Martina

Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Are you saying it's weird to not date other femmes and to prefer butches? Not saying I don't find femmes to be *beautiful* but it saddens me to be boxed into the weird category once again because I prefer dating the more masculine end of the spectrum. Cues Radiohead *I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo*....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

I also DATE femmes. Femmes are not some category of person whom I bond with in a non-sexual way and swear a scouts' oath of loyalty to.

I don't know. Weird eery heteronormative music started playing in the background when I was reading this thread.

Oh, *I* date all over the queer gender spectrum.




I'm far from hetero so I'm going to disagree with your perception.

It's a buzzkill (for the relationship) if a trusted member of my chosen inner circle dates or makes a move on someone I was in love with or owned.

It's boundary crossing for "me" I don't expect for anyone else but the people I'm allowing in my life to respect these boundaries. It's going to be a well known fact I have these expectations because like with any other relationship my chosen circle will know because in developing the friendship it will be talked about. Friendships are relationships.

I feel it's an individual choice on how one values relationships over nookie.

[Medusa]

Gender is much less important to me when this boundary issue exists than the fact that I want to honor my friendships and maintain loyalty to my heartfriends.

I would feel exactly the same way if say Just_G, whom I consider to be one of my close Butch friends, suddenly started dating Butches, got into a long term relationship, was all in love and shit, and they then split up. I wouldn't date G's ex partner, Butch or Femme or Transman, for the exact same reason I don't date my girlfriend's exes.

The bonds I have with my Femme girlfriends are special though, no doubt, and whether it's het-normative or not, those relationships are a type of bond that is specific, intentional, and some of the most affirming space I have in my life.

[princessbelle]

I don't see heteronormalitive being played out at all. If i were into femmes and i had had a close femme friend i wouldn't date her either. No difference whatsoever.

And besides, all butches are not male identified for sure.

Has nothing to do with ID that i see.

[Martina]

I get the friend thing. I don't get the femme code thing. That strikes me as sexist and heteronormative.

Sexist in the sense that if we didn't claim this great loyalty bond, we'd be out there conniving to get each other's partners.

Heteronormative in grouping like gender people "friends" and the other gender as "potential dates."

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

Are you saying it's weird to not date other femmes and to prefer butches?

No. I wasn't saying that.

[princessbelle]

I am trying to understand Martina.

Aren't we talking about dating a friend's ex here?

I don't think anyone is saying they are out to get someone's partner if they aren't a friend.

Exes is the key work i believe.

Again, i don't see anything heteronormalitive about it.

This is the femme zone. So it's femme's talking to other femmes. Never crossed my mind this would be seen as heteronormalitive due to any loyalty to other femme's. I must be missing something.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Miss_Tia

I have dated exes of friends. I have asked my friends first, if that was ok. Protocol. And courtesy.

the problem I see in the case Anya gave us, was the nastiness of those two flirting in front of her friend. Mean People! It was low and spiteful of them to put on a display that they knew would make Anya's friend uncomfortable. If I did date someone's ex, I would be discrete about affection in front of them until I knew everyone involved was ok with it.

I have had new girlfriends of MY exes parade in front of me. But then, I did that to someone once too, for which i am ashamed now of my past action. We learn through our mistakes or we stay bitches. I learned...

Miss Tia, I appreciate that you read and "got it" exactly as written!

Just simple human kindness. Femme to femme kindness.

Dating the ex of a close, sister-heart femme would not even be in my own personal universe of clear boundaries but neither would hurting a non-close acquaintance by flirting in front a recently dumped or in pain femme.

That is just me.

I get that many of you have a different belief or value system.

We certainly do not always agree on the Planet and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is our right.

[Martina]

I agree, belle. It should be about how you'd treat any friend or friendship. It's not a butch femme thing, I'd hope.

Edited to add -- this is not worthy of a sustained discussion. Or at least I don't have that much energy invested.

[princessbelle]

I think the butch/femme identity comes up a lot here. I just never see butch/femme as heteronormalitive at all. Actually, i see it as the farthest thing from it. I guess that's where we differ.

It's funny that someone may see butch/femme as heteronormalitive behavior. In fact, it feels like a heteronoramalitive way of looking at things to even think that.

LOL. I know that made no sense.

[Martina]

I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

[princessbelle]

I disagree totally.

I date women. Nothing heteronormalitive about it. Nothing. When i dated FtMs or Trans, still wasn't heteronormalitive. I haven't been on that side of the fence for 15 years. lol.

You are right it's not worth our time here i'm sure. We just see things differently. That's ok.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sigh. I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

I tend not to assume that femme = dating butch only. I certainly don't date in this way.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I disagree totally.

I date women. Nothing heteronormalitive about it. Nothing. When i dated FtMs or Trans, still wasn't heteronormalitive. I haven't been on that side of the fence for 15 years. lol.

You are right it's not worth our time here i'm sure. We just see things differently. That's ok.

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Martina

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

I hear you. I still disagree. I do not see that feminine dating masculine is heteronormalitive. I just don't.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sigh. I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

Ah, I see what you're saying.

I think when I think of the Butch/Femme dance in my head, it is a specific dynamic based on mutual attraction of certain gender-types. This is probably binary thinking. That dance has been exploded for me in amazing ways by witnessing Butches date other Butches and Femmes date other Femmes and Transmen dating Butches or Femmes and vice-versa.

My specific brand of Femme is attracted to Butches when it comes to sex and partnering. I like the genderfuck and the mind-fuck. The other wonderful thing that comes from that is that I find camaraderie with other Femmes who have a similar kind of specific attraction to other Butches. It's just familiar and intimate on levels that feel cozy (and maybe safe?)

Doesn't mean I don't have anything in common with Femme sisters who exclusively date other Femmes or Transmen. It's just a different orbit and a different level of connection.

When I think of the kind of boundaries I want to have in friendships and dating, I think about the value of my connections and not the gender of those connections.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I tend not to assume that femme = dating butch only. I certainly don't date in this way.

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.