Setting the bar high?

[Kätzchen]

I wonder if people in the community would be interested in sharing views on whether Setting the Bar High is the proverbial magic bullet that serves to help you find an healthy romantic relationship.... especially one that endures over time.

I've always thought that standards I've set for myself would help govern the odds of finding the sweetest, kindest, most supportive love interest, which over time would lead to commitment and an healthy long term relationship.

But I'm torn about the idea of "setting the bar high."

In my mind, just because we seek to set the groundwork, in personal ways, to make sure we don't accept less than we deserve or end up in serial dating relationships, trying to find Ms Right or the best fit romantically, I'm interested in hearing from members in the community about whether 'setting the bar high' worked in your favor and worked toward the best interest of the other person you have been romantically involved with.

My personal thoughts about "setting the bar high" revolve around the fact that just because we do that, it doesn't always guarantee that you'll end up with the right person.

I'd like to think that looking out for ourselves and hoping to end up with the best possible romantic partner is a good thing to do, but I've only had one dating relationship in my life that seemed like it fit the "keep the bar high" type of personal standard....yet over time, we both chose to end our relationship based on circumstances out of our own control. It was a wonderful relationship, but it didn't last.

Anyway, I hope people might be interested in talking about this type of thing. Some things I often ask myself, concerning setting the bar high is....

1) What purpose is served?

And...

2) Does it guarantee a better chance of an lasting relationship?

I would like to see this subject explored in reasonable ways.
If you've been wondering too, I'm interested in hearing your take on whether "setting the bar high" proved of any usefulness to you, at all.

[Gráinne]

I think the first criteria in a prospective partner has to be character, empathy, and integrity. It's impossible to set the bar too high with regards to those things. Same with values-you have to have enough to pull in the same direction, although it's possible to "create" commonality if you have a strong foundation. A lack in any one of those, and the relationship is doomed, no matter how much you have in common.

That gets into the issue of compatibility-do you have enough common interests and outlook to get along? I dobelieve absolutely that you can raise the bar too high in that area-"I'll only date someone if they like blues/jazz/Brubeck/rom-coms, etc. "I'll only date someone who is athletic", "They must play guitar"-you get the idea. The more areas of compatibility you have, obviously the more you'll have to talk about and do together. But it all goes to nothing if your bars are too low in values, ethics and integrity.

Of course, nothing guarantees that you'll meet someone, or that other circumstances won't ruin the chance for a good relationship. But it is a guarantee that if your bar is too low that anyone can meet it, you are setting yourself up for frustrating and unsatisfying relationships.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

Anyway, I hope people might be interested in talking about this type of thing. Some things I often ask myself, concerning setting the bar high is....

1) What purpose is served?

And...

2) Does it guarantee a better chance of an lasting relationship?

I would like to see this subject explored in reasonable ways.
If you've been wondering too, I'm interested in hearing your take on whether "setting the bar high" proved of any usefulness to you, at all.

Here's the problem with 'setting the bar high'....it can be used as a defense mechanism and an excuse. If someone is honest with their self, it's not problematic. There's absolutely nothing wrong with requiring a partner to treat you well and to behave in an adult fashion. People will treat you how you allow or require them to. However, I've seen a lot of people use the process less as a tool and more as a reason to not give someone a chance. For example: I don't want anyone that's shorter than 5'10" and they must have blue eyes and work in finance. That's unreasonable, because the person that might treat me best could be 5'4" with brown eyes. People use the theory for less than a behavioral model and more like a physical standards test from grade school.

I agree with Grainne. Some standards are great but don't get carried away and ridiculous with it.

To answer your questions directly, it serves a purpose of weeding out people that won't make you happy and satisfied. Does it guarantee a better chance of a lasting relationship? No. Nothing and no one can guarantee a 'lasting relationship' but it will go far in helping you find someone that will make the time you have with them joyful.

[~ocean]

Setting the "Bar" high apply's to all aspects of life. Friends, business assoc. etc...... BUT in my own PERSONAL opinion it's the bar you set on and for yourself..Other's are who they are ,and what we want is our perogative :seems I will always ( dance to that word ) lol I tend to set my bar too high , it is just who I am , I will lose interest if I didn't . I could never just settle.

[kittygrrl]

I don't think we set out setting the bar high..but when life and love throw us a few curve balls in relationships..we eventually start making the list of what we do not want..and sometimes the list gets very very long I think you need decide on the bare basics according to you and you should limit it to ten things or less..preferably five! Keep it simple

[Tuff Stuff]

I always thought that if you are going to be honest with anyone,be honest with yourself first.Nothing wrong with setting the bar high if you think you're worth it.. and you all are.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I wonder if people in the community would be interested in sharing views on whether Setting the Bar High is the proverbial magic bullet that serves to help you find an healthy romantic relationship.... especially one that endures over time.

But I'm torn about the idea of "setting the bar high."



1) What purpose is served?

And...

2) Does it guarantee a better chance of an lasting relationship?

I would like to see this subject explored in reasonable ways.
If you've been wondering too, I'm interested in hearing your take on whether "setting the bar high" proved of any usefulness to you, at all.

Well, I think things get confused with the term "bar" -
I have some cast iron boundaries from have many relationships with folks - because I used to be a very open and experimental sort of gal. I went with "chemistry" and really that was pretty much the only thing that mattered in terms of dating (to me dating is not serious, it means getting to know people, no promises, no obligations - then after a period of time you can make decisions later).

So my boundaries come from experience in getting to know myself in relationships, being married (and divorced), and spending a good solid 3 years on my own with no dating, no sex to get to know just me (something I had never done, since the age of 14, the longest I went without sex was one year and that didn't mean I didn't date).


My boundaries that I know will work best for me, that will make me the very happiest, give me independence and companionship unfortunately set a descriptive "high bar." These are non negotiables for me to function as a mentally healthy person. Because these do not fall within "lesbian normative" (living together, quickstart romance, monogamy from the get go, couple of dogs together, share finances, etc) the "bar" is set very high indeed.

"the bar" = someone who has the same wants and desires and values around relationship companionship, who also wants someone somewhat kinky (I'm more *filthy* than far end BDSM), femme, and has a similar sense of humour, and politics that won't piss me the fuck off. I'm open t;o butch, androg with masc flavours, gender queer masc, femme daddy-esque types. So I'm not playing a strictly limited field.

Even though that sounds not very high, trust me, that's miles high. Too high for pretty much anyone I'm spoken to in the last 5 years, save one person.

So for me, if "the bar" it too high, and I suspect is it in queer/lesboland in the age range of 38-58, I'm Spinster and I don't mind at all. I'm happy and content on my own, it would be nice to have sex and companionship, but I'm not exactly suffering and I've had more peace in the last 3 years than I've ever had in a r'ship. So, lol... yeah, bar stays where it is.

[Katniss]

This is an interesting topic. As others have stated I don't believe in a long list of "secondary" qualities i.e. hair color, profession, wealth, lover of all things anime, etc. I am also attracted to both butch and femme women so there is that as well. Lists are funny things. I laugh because my BFF swore for *years* she would never date a woman with kids. She married her love two years ago and is a happy step-mom to three kids. I do believe in basic core qualities and for some time have kept a list of exactly what I was looking for and would accept in a relationship. Consequently I didn't date for close to four years. I had no problem with this as my life was still full and happy. I did make sure during that time that I set the bar high for myself as well. Fair is fair after all. Last week I came across the below article and although it was written with friendship in mind it can apply equally well to a romantic partner. It accurately sums up how I feel today about any relationship/friendship I engage in over time.

*********************************

The quality of friendship

“The rule of friendship,” the Buddha said, “means there should be mutual sympathy between them, each supplying what the other lacks and trying to benefit the other…” The words ring true. Friendship is not as much a matter of happenstance as we are inclined to think.

Perhaps one of life’s most precious lessons is that we must learn to choose our friends as well as to find them. The corollary of this insight, of course, is that we must learn not to allow ourselves simply to fall into alliances and acquaintances that come and go like starlight on the water, exciting for a while but easily forgotten. We must learn, in other words, not to make life a playground of faceless, nameless people—all of whom are useful for a while but who never really touch the soul or stretch the mind or prod the conscience.

On the contrary, the realization that friendship is one of the great spiritual resources of the human existence drives us beyond the superficial to the meaningful. It leads us to create relationships that count for something, rather than to simply wander from one casual social affair to another.

It may, in fact, be the friends we make who most accurately measure the depth of our own souls. For that we are each responsible.

To grow, then, requires that we provide for ourselves the kinds of relationships that demand more of us than continual immersion in the mundane. It requires us to surround ourselves with people who speak to the best part of us from the best part of themselves. It means that we must actively seek out as friends those who have something worth saying. And then we must learn to listen well to them so that they can hone our own best intuitions, challenge our least profound assumptions, point out directions that take us to another level of thought and care and determination. At times when life is most unclear, most confusing, we need … this quality of friendship. But only an awareness of our own limitations can possibly prepare us for it.

by Sr.Joan Chittister OSB

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Katniss

This is an interesting topic. As others have stated I don't believe in a long list of "secondary" qualities i.e. hair color, profession, wealth, lover of all things anime, etc. I am also attracted to both butch and femme women so there is that as well. Lists are funny things. I laugh because my BFF swore for *years* she would never date a woman with kids. She married her love two years ago and is a happy step-mom to three kids. I do believe in basic core qualities and for some time have kept a list of exactly what I was looking for and would accept in a relationship. Consequently I didn't date for close to four years. I had no problem with this as my life was still full and happy. I did make sure during that time that I set the bar high for myself as well. Fair is fair after all. Last week I came across the below article and although it was written with friendship in mind it can apply equally well to a romantic partner. It accurately sums up how I feel today about any relationship/friendship I engage in over time.

*********************************

The quality of friendship

“The rule of friendship,” the Buddha said, “means there should be mutual sympathy between them, each supplying what the other lacks and trying to benefit the other…” The words ring true. Friendship is not as much a matter of happenstance as we are inclined to think.

Perhaps one of life’s most precious lessons is that we must learn to choose our friends as well as to find them. The corollary of this insight, of course, is that we must learn not to allow ourselves simply to fall into alliances and acquaintances that come and go like starlight on the water, exciting for a while but easily forgotten. We must learn, in other words, not to make life a playground of faceless, nameless people—all of whom are useful for a while but who never really touch the soul or stretch the mind or prod the conscience.

On the contrary, the realization that friendship is one of the great spiritual resources of the human existence drives us beyond the superficial to the meaningful. It leads us to create relationships that count for something, rather than to simply wander from one casual social affair to another.

It may, in fact, be the friends we make who most accurately measure the depth of our own souls. For that we are each responsible.

To grow, then, requires that we provide for ourselves the kinds of relationships that demand more of us than continual immersion in the mundane. It requires us to surround ourselves with people who speak to the best part of us from the best part of themselves. It means that we must actively seek out as friends those who have something worth saying. And then we must learn to listen well to them so that they can hone our own best intuitions, challenge our least profound assumptions, point out directions that take us to another level of thought and care and determination. At times when life is most unclear, most confusing, we need … this quality of friendship. But only an awareness of our own limitations can possibly prepare us for it.

by Sr.Joan Chittister OSB

I love this ,,,, thanks so much for your post!!

[BullDog]

For me it is a combination of knowing what those core things are that I need to have in common or to be compatible with in a partner, along with staying open to realizing that you can end up being pleasantly surprised by someone who has characteristics, interests, etc. that you never thought you would be compatible with or enjoy in a person.

As I have gotten older, some "practical" things have become more important to me than they used to. I need things to be fairly quiet and stable, and I'm not so ready to just leap up to move across the country on a big risk for love. It doesn't mean I won't do it, but I am more cautious than I used to be and more aware of my own limitations - like being hypersensitive to noise. I can't just live anywhere or with anyone. So I think my bar has been raised - more in what I can risk or do maybe than what I necessarily expect from someone else. I think this is still on topic.

I think knowing yourself and your own limitations and what you need is key to being able to have a healthy and lasting relationship, but certainly is no guarantee.

So I guess my short answer is I believe in having my core things but also to being open to being pleasantly surprised. My bar might not be the highest, but I think it is higher than it used to be.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by BullDog

For me it is a combination of knowing what those core things are that I need to have in common or to be compatible with in a partner, along with staying open to realizing that you can end up being pleasantly surprised by someone who has characteristics, interests, etc. that you never thought you would be compatible with or enjoy in a person.

As I have gotten older, some "practical" things have become more important to me than they used to. I need things to be fairly quiet and stable, and I'm not so ready to just leap up to move across the country on a big risk for love. It doesn't mean I won't do it, but I am more cautious than I used to be and more aware of my own limitations - like being hypersensitive to noise. I can't just live anywhere or with anyone. So I think my bar has been raised - more in what I can risk or do maybe than what I necessarily expect from someone else. I think this is still on topic.

I think knowing yourself and your own limitations and what you need is key to being able to have a healthy and lasting relationship, but certainly is no guarantee.

So I guess my short answer is I believe in having my core things but also to being open to being pleasantly surprised. My bar might not be the highest, but I think it is higher than it used to be.

You've grown so much over the past decade (and a half), Bulldog. I surely appreciate your own self reflection in coming to understand yourself in terms of your own limitations as contrasted by what makes your life feel right for you.

thanks for your timely post!

[Kätzchen]

I just got back from a long morning concerning an evaluation for physical therapy, and I can't unwind enough to take a rest or nap this afternoon, but I want to pause and reflect for several moments on comments posted by members of our community.

First, thank you for taking time to thoughtfully reply to the subject I feel that deserves attention. The subject of .... Setting The Bar High..

I really like what Grainne said in her post, that "the first criteria in an prospective partner has to.be character, empathy and integrity" (Gainne). I totally agree! Those characteristics are of primal importance to me, when it comes to 'setting the bar high'.

I appreciate Gemme's take too, because as Gemme points out, 'setting the bar high' can devolve into setting precedent for anyone to utilize x, y or z standards as a way to justify an personal desire which might not be all that reasonable. I really liked how you explained your viewpoint Gemme!

I absolutely LOVED your response Ocean because not only is it our perogative to exercise our choices but it is also an imperative to making choices that we know we can or cannot accept. That's been my experience now, for about the past few years. I'm always reviewing aspects about myself and making sure that I've set the bar high, not only for myself, but as it concerns romantic endeavors.

I really appreciate your response Imperfect_cupcake! I so hear you about taking time out for you, finding out your own specific needs, desires and wants. For several years, before I dipped my toes into the dating pool again, I too took considerable time exploring previous decisions I've made in other relationships, as well as just enjoying life on my own, without being involved with anyone else. I totally hear you when you say you've had more peace in the past three years, on your own, and that the proverbial 'bar ' will stay where it is.

A couple of other members posted too, but I don't know that the topic of honesty is part of the subject of "setting the bar high", but it COULD BE if one isn't being honest with themselves. I'm very honest with myself at all times.

To be sure the topic stays on topic, I'd like to remind people that when you post, please remember that the topic I offered for discussion is not necessarily about me. It's an subject of discussion about what "Setting the bar high" means to you, and if it worked in your favor or not.

One of the things I wonder about "setting the bar high" is unintended consequences. I think Gemme did a fine job illustrating this particular consequence, as well as Grainne.

Grainne, in particular. Toward the end of Grainne's post, she said that if the "bar is set too low, anyone can meet it."

Can I get an amen??? True story. If anyone can meet your expectations or standards in current life, does it mean you've met the right person? Alternatively, if the "bar is set high" does it mean the person you feel attraction for, is the right person?

Remember, please, this is an general topic of discussion that I feel deserves attention. Not because I do or do not have the proverbial bar set high or low, but in general.

I'm curious about the topic of Setting the bar high because life is not static. Life is full of ever changing dynamics... for example: health, short or long term illness, employment or sudden changes in employment, loss of employment after years on the job, sex --- ranging from low to high to non-existent need for sex, or other things can happen like natural disaster and dealing with the fallout, or any number of other things can happen....outside the context of setting the bar high. Which, in my mind, just because we've set the bar high in our lives, does it always mean that we'll act in our own best interest or will our own perception of standard we think is sufficient, will it still be sufficient in times of change?

Thanks to all who've taken the time to reflect on this topic.
I appreciate your response!

And Katniss, thanks for your post too! Timely!

[Femmewench]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

To be sure the topic stays on topic, I'd like to remind people that when you post, please remember that the topic I offered for discussion is not necessarily about me. It's an subject of discussion about what "Setting the bar high" means to you, and if it worked in your favor or not.

One of the things I wonder about "setting the bar high" is unintended consequences. I think Gemme did a fine job illustrating this particular consequence, as well as Grainne.

I hadn't thought about this in years, probably more than a decade. I had a list of qualities I was looking for in a future partner that I created 16 or more years ago. Fourteen years ago I met someone who checked almost all of those boxes. Earlier this year, we divorced at my request.

I believe you meet people for a reason, season or lifetime. I though she was for a lifetime. I scared her to death talking about "when we grow old together" after only knowing her a couple of weeks. The knowledge that we would grow old together made it easier to sign the consent form for putting her on a ventilator and dialysis years later; I knew she wasn't going to die. (She wound up rallying and not requiring either.)

As it turned out, I met her and it was for a reason, not a lifetime. There was no foreseeing that when we met and I fell in love. Circumstances beyond her control radically changed her shortly into our relationship. At 14 years, she had healed enough for me to find myself again.

I don't know if I'll do another list. I know what I'm looking for. I also know that things can change in an instant.

[Apocalipstic]

I probably stated this when I said it would take some time to date again and that my recently deceased girlfriend set the bar high.

She died a month ago and I am brokenhearted.

For me, treating me with respect, supporting and encouraging me and always being on my side...set the bar high.

I do not apologize for feeling this way.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I probably stated this when I said it would take some time to date again and that my recently deceased girlfriend set the bar high.

She died a month ago and I am brokenhearted.

For me, treating me with respect, supporting and encouraging me and always being on my side...set the bar high.

I do not apologize for feeling this way.

I'd say that those expectations and setting that type of standard is the bedrock of any loving relationship. If it's okay with you, my sister femme friend, I'll sit by you quietly and mourn with you, the loss of your beloved.
(((((( big big hug )))))))

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I
My personal thoughts about "setting the bar high" revolve around the fact that just because we do that, it doesn't always guarantee that you'll end up with the right person.

i agree with this. it does not guarantee a thing. i just know what i like and don't like in a person, there are no guarantees no matter how high you set the bar

[Kätzchen]

It's an early morning for me today, but once again I want to pause and reflect and express thanks to members who've dropped by to read other contributions by members in our community.

Thank you Medusa, girl_dee, Ms Tinkerbelly, and imperfect cupcake for your willingness to expand on and discuss what ...Setting the bar high means to each of you.

Here's why I think this topic of discussion and observation is important: Each one of us is at a different stage in our lives. Some of us are young, some if us are in our 30's and 40s, then there's those of us who are in our late 50s (me) and we've got people in our community with considerable life experience who are in the 60s or 70s..... I think it's critical for us to note that life is not static. Life's dynamics includes your physical age, your own experiences in life, and how the experiences shape our world views and inform us on our level or capacity to learn skills which help us to adapt readily, by either adopting an new way to exist in our daily lives or gives us skills to reject or accept any number of things, which shape our lives.

I want to remind readers again, to give this topic your careful attention. I thought to myself the other day, what can we as a community of participants do, to not only share about our own views, but give to ourselves and others around us, in positive productive ways? Which, it led me to think about members in our community who might just be having a moment of personal growth or maybe there's a member who just can't quite "connect the dots." I personally think that sharing our views in communal ways helps each of us to become more articulate in what we want for ourselves and others whom we interact with.

A place where we can learn and grow; by reading and observing how we each have grown by sharing our learning experiences. ...especially as it concerns the topic of Setting the bar high.

I look forward to member participation and reading each persons account on what you thing "setting the bar high" means to you and if doing so, has it improved your chances finding an lasting relationship or not.

I really appreciate girl_dee for posting this morning the number one idea I've had all along about setting the bar high and whether you found your self in a lasting relationship or not: I agree whole heartedly that just because you 'set the bar high' , it does not mean or guarantee you'll find your self in a lasting relationship.

I want to also say that I think Medusa's observation about an system of rewards is exceptional! I'd say that's worth looking at in this bigger scope of "setting the bar high"..... thanks for that gem, Medusa. Good thinking point, indeed.

[imperfect_cupcake]

If you mean "changing the bar" yeah, there are things I've changed in the last five years that I thought were really important and found out were actually just icing things.

1) Dress sense. I do find large urban metropolis metrosexual masculine (dandy wear) to be insanely hot. Just do. Sharp urban dress sense can turn my head on the street, it's pretty much one of the only things that can. I used to think that meant a partner needed at least a bit of that.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
As long as they have some fucking clue about how to iron shirt/jeans (even a high quality tshirt) and wearing good clothes (I mean, things that aren't worn out) and *clean,* and know not to wear a fucking baseball hat, hiking boots, or a polar fleece jacket on a date - then I'm good. Just show me you've taken 20 minutes to try? (environment appropriate of course). Because people showing up looking like they popped on something "this doesn't smell yet" isn't hot. My bar is still higher than that. Yes it's happened. A lot. Vancouver, innit.

2) They need to ID as a butch, and have been IDing for at least 5 years.
I remember why I made that rule, and I think at the time it was OK. I was dating purely from the dash site, and thus only from the US, and it was 1999-2003. I think I got very fed up with people discovering they were butches, that a femme desired them, then running off and shagging every femme that moved in their direction.

Being "My First Femme" was pissing me off at that point.

However, when I moved to the UK the whole ID thing isn't the same puddle as it is in the US. So, I had to change it and drop that bar again. Yes, I put my shingle out again as My First Femme, quite a bit, and yes, that did smart, but I started getting teased by friends that "well babs, everyone has a purpose in life... you sure are educating a lot of newbie butchies lolz" :s
I'd just joke back I took my Butch Conversion Kit with me wherever I went.
It doesn't bother much anymore. I don't really care if people shag other folks, I've never cared too much about that. It's the running off and having new primary relationships that has pissed me off.
But that bar has changed - I no longer care too much about other girlfriends anymore either. As long as I don't get Drama By Proxy (DO NOT pull me into any other relationship drama, I'm not interested, EVER, and it will end ours really *fast*). So I think I'm ok with being My First Femme, still. Hypothetically. I'm not out there presently.

So yeah, bars like that shift. Some are icing (like dress sense) and some are really important questions - Do I take up with newbs? What about open r'ships? What kind?

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

If you mean "changing the bar" yeah, there are things I've changed in the last five years that I thought were really important and found out were actually just icing things.

1) Dress sense. I do find large urban metropolis metrosexual masculine (dandy wear) to be insanely hot. Just do. Sharp urban dress sense can turn my head on the street, it's pretty much one of the only things that can. I used to think that meant a partner needed at least a bit of that.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
As long as they have some fucking clue about how to iron shirt/jeans (even a high quality tshirt) and wearing good clothes (I mean, things that aren't worn out) and *clean,* and know not to wear a fucking baseball hat, hiking boots, or a polar fleece jacket on a date - then I'm good. Just show me you've taken 20 minutes to try? (environment appropriate of course). Because people showing up looking like they popped on something "this doesn't smell yet" isn't hot. My bar is still higher than that. Yes it's happened. A lot. Vancouver, innit.

2) They need to ID as a butch, and have been IDing for at least 5 years.
I remember why I made that rule, and I think at the time it was OK. I was dating purely from the dash site, and thus only from the US, and it was 1999-2003. I think I got very fed up with people discovering they were butches, that a femme desired them, then running off and shagging every femme that moved in their direction.

Being "My First Femme" was pissing me off at that point.

However, when I moved to the UK the whole ID thing isn't the same puddle as it is in the US. So, I had to change it and drop that bar again. Yes, I put my shingle out again as My First Femme, quite a bit, and yes, that did smart, but I started getting teased by friends that "well babs, everyone has a purpose in life... you sure are educating a lot of newbie butchies lolz" :s
I'd just joke back I took my Butch Conversion Kit with me wherever I went.
It doesn't bother much anymore. I don't really care if people shag other folks, I've never cared too much about that. It's the running off and having new primary relationships that has pissed me off.
But that bar has changed - I no longer care too much about other girlfriends anymore either. As long as I don't get Drama By Proxy (DO NOT pull me into any other relationship drama, I'm not interested, EVER, and it will end ours really *fast*). So I think I'm ok with being My First Femme, still. Hypothetically. I'm not out there presently.

So yeah, bars like that shift. Some are icing (like dress sense) and some are really important questions - Do I take up with newbs? What about open r'ships? What kind?

If that's been your experience in your romantic life, Cupcake, then I don't blame you one iota for removing yourself from the dating and/or relationship pool, because what you've described makes my head hurt!

I can't say that I hear you because your experience is nowhere close to any experiences I've had in life.

But I would like to say, consider this: IF we are given an syllabus of course expectations and standards for a college course, THEN it is plausible to believe that if you have to bring your A-game to the college course to pass the course, then that's what ya gotta do, right?

The example I just gave is the closest example I can think of that lands in the same ballpark as...Setting the bar high.

In other words, if we know we got to bring our A-game to pass the course, then bring it or stay home.

Those other things that play a role in having your A-game to be A-game proper?? You know, things you mentioned above, like knowing who you are (are you butch, femme, trans, bi, queen et al?), being self sufficient of your own accord, having your life in order, not thriving on drama or causing trauma? These things are important to the A-game scenario and contribute to "setting the bar high."

My questions (two of them) to consider were as follows: 1)What purpose does it serve (ie, setting the bar high) and, 2) Does setting the bar high guarantee you will have a better chance at finding a lasting relationship?

I'm no therapist and I certainly don't have any definitive answers, but I do wonder at times about this thing called "setting the bar high."

I sometimes wonder if that's what the majority of people in healthy functioning relationships, relationships which have not devolved into throat punching or divorce or other things that are commonly known as deal breakers, tell themselves when they're in a relationship that is working to the satisfaction of both people in the romantic relationship.

Out of all the few experiences I've had, only one of relationship felt really good to me...did I bring my A-game? Not concsiously, but I imagine I was at the top of my game. They liked me a lot, we got along great. We vacationed together and we're very close with each other romantically. But I never once thought of myself as "setting the bar high." See what I mean?

I don't have any expectations for how this subject of discussion will go or flow, but I do know that in order for some sense of order, I'd like for people who respond to think of the two questions I've proposed. Think only of those two things and what it means to you.

Take what you need as food for thought. If nothing works for you, then pass it along to anyone you know who might be wondering too.

Relationships are not uncomplicated. Relationships, romantic or platonic, are as unique as each individual. Romantic love can be a pain in the ass. Love can also be a blessing. And sometimes, love is not enough.



Thanks for your post imperfect_cupcake, I think you asked some great questions and I appreciate your taking the time to share!

[imperfect_cupcake]

yeah, I did respond to those questions but I think you just brought up a different and really good point - expectations and lasting relationships.

I think I have changed my "game" altogether. I am not presently in the game because I have other shit to finish with, not because I don't wanna have a toe in.

When I get finished with that stuff, yeah, I'll be open to accepting offers. But my expectations and my entire game has changed. I no longer expect an escalator relationship. That means, I no longer expect me and A will meet, talk, date, start seeing each other, fall in love, make a promise to each other, move in, raise a dog and go on vacations together.

Or hower people have gradual progressive expectations of intimate relationships. I sincerely don't expect mine will last my lifetime. I don't believe that is the statistical average. I think it's extremely rare. So, I don't think it's healthy for me to expect that. I think it sets me up to expect promises that can't be properly kept although sincerely made, and for others to fail on their delivery. It sets up a feeling of failure in my relationships. I think it's unfair and hurtful, those expectations, for me and the other person. So, that's not the game I play anymore, nor is it a bar I am trying to jump over.

That does not mean I don't expect someone's respect, care, loyalty, honesty, and to work at building trust, companionship, and true friendship. I totally expect that. But no, I don't expect the romance and sex to last my lifetime. If it does, that would be awesome.

That also means my A-game - as you put it - with myself has changed completely. What my *self* expectations are are quite different. because I do not expect someone to be there for the rest of my life.

That means I have to be there for me. And it makes accepting other people's ability to only stay three years, five years, or seven years, or nine years a lot easier. Because I have *my* housing sorted out, *my* career sorted, *my* RRSP plans, *my* insurance premiums being paid, *my* friends I love, *my* local community, *my* education plans. So whether someone loves me romantically or not, that is all still there. Nothing falls apart if we decide it's changing to a friendship, or they move to Denmark, or they decide they want to suddenly get monogamously married to my co-worker (seriously, at this point in my life, that wouldn't even surprise me).

So, I have changed my own bar for me. My expectations on what I do, for me.

My first and most important lasting relationship will always be with me. I have to start acting like that's true by taking care of *me* first, by making sure *my* needs are met before I even think of trying to enter into dating again. I don't want to be dating because I'm trying to find security, or affirmation, or stave off loneliness.

So I suppose that's setting my own bar, for me, quite high. and in doing that, I hope to keep certain expectations of certain things from others, low. I still expect honesty, care, companionship. I just don't expect a specific length of time... because how long is a piece of string?

I know that's also not a popular take. I know things that are ok with me are usually deal breakers with others - shag who you want, I don't expect forever, we won't be living together, and I sure as fuck ain't doing your laundry.

But if I like you, it will be utterly sincere, there won't be games, I'm blunt as hell so you'll never have to guess, I'm generous, I'll make you laugh, I'm loyal, and I'll never pressure you. Your decisions will always be yours. I will always respect your privacy. And if you need to talk to me, I will put the friendship between us first, before the romance, always. That's the kind of girl I know I am because those are things I don't have difficulty with and are core to my values.

So I guess, yes. getting to really, really know myself, on my own, has been sorely needed to understand what I need to do for me, so I can bring things that are important to me (deep friendship, independence, self-responsibility, loyalty), rather than what I think most of the population wants (monogamy, promises of long term, interdependence, romance, fidelity, linked security).

Thanks for helping me articulate that.