The Euthanasia Poll

[Selenay]

Do you support euthanasia?


A few questions, as a jumping off point:

What is your opinion on euthanasia?

If applicable, under what circumstances do you support it?

Under what circumstances do you not support it?

How should patients be euthanized (by this I mean should it be done by hospital practitioners, or should a patient be able to do it in the comfort of their home? Should a religious figure be permitted to do it? A loved one?)

What regulations, if any, do you think should be put in place to stop it/regulate it/allow it?

[chefhottie25]

wow this is a tough one. I think I would support it if someone had a terminal illness and was of sound mind to make that decision for themselves. I think it would have to be done by a doctor with an attorney present.

[Selenay]

I support euthanasia in all cases; people have the right to live or die as they chose to.

However.

I think that if a patient is opting to select euthanasia, there should be a review committee, akin to a transplant review board, to determine a few things before the patient is permitted to chose that. In this case, there should be an evaluation to determine if the patient is able to make cognizant decisions about their own medical care and to determine that the patient is choosing it of their own free will, and not being pushed into it by family or doctors. There should also be a committee ensuring that the patient is, in fact, terminal, and that quality of life is already compromised.

This would mean that patients in an irreversible coma would not be eligible for such an action, however I would support the creation of a document like a DNR that would stipulate that in such a case they would prefer to be euthanized.

[Words]

I would not condemn someone for choosing to end their own life rather than live in terrible pain (for example). On the contrary, my heart would absolutely go out to them.

I, however, would not be a part of their bringing their life to an end because I do believe that ultimately only God has the 'right' to end a life. And yes, this would apply even if I/a loved one was in agony. And yes, I have - for personal reasons - thought about this matter a great deal.

Words

[PapaC]

Originally Posted by Words

I, however, would not be a part of their bringing their life to an end because I do believe that ultimately only God has the 'right' to end a life. And yes, this would apply even if I/a loved one was in agony. And yes, I have - for personal reasons - thought about this matter a great deal.

Does this mean, that if a loved one has a DNR in place (which, I've personally observed to mean many many different things), and a doctor comes to you to make a decision based on said DNR, you wouldn't be able to make an 'end' decision because God has the 'right' to end a life? How does God play out in the 'right' to extend/prolong life... as is the case of people who are alive by artificial means (ie: coma, feeding tube, other advanced life support measures?)

Incidentally, I hope I'm clear but I'll be crystal here, I'm not using the word "artificial" with any moral value added judgement at all. I have mad respect for the medical field and some advances. I've been in an ICU and as a family member participated (actively or passively) in decisions that involved an end of life decision. It's very difficult. I wouldn't wish this sort of thing on anyone.

It is hard for me to talk about this issue with the concept of God mixed in the middle (and that's ok, I'm not saying it's not worth the discussion)... of this. Because on one hand, there's the issue of people going (per God's will) or let's say 'natural causes', but if someone stays alive because of medical interventions how does one deem 'life'? I suppose I think about cases similar to Terry Schiavo.

looking forward to what you have to say.

-Chris

[christie]

I have long believed we are more humane to our pets than we are to humans.

I remember watching my grandfather suffer, in pain and fear, for three months before he died. I was twelve years old, but I remember asking my father, "Why can't they just put him to sleep like we did Lady (an elderly dog we had to have put down during this time)?" His response was, "We just don't do that, punkin." I remember thinking that it didn't make sense to me that we didn't want Lady to suffer, but GrandDaddy had to.

Jess and I both have advance directives in place. I don't want Jess or my family to have to make an end of life decision nor do I want them to watch needless suffering.

Its been difficult for me to balance my deep-seated religious upbringing with God being the one to end life with what seems more logical and reasonable. In as much as I would like to believe in miracles, I don't want a needless, painful, fearful end just in case that miracle isn't on the list for me.

I would like to see euthanasia as a legal option rather than just a DNR. I think that a DNR is just not sufficient in that you are waiting for something to happen such as cardiac arrest. What if it doesn't?

I have often said that if I were diagnosed as terminal, I would have to consider terminating my own life. It would be on my terms - my choice since there isn't a medical euthanasia option.

I also think this is a very personal decision and that I don't have the right to judge/decide what is best for someone else.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by christie0918

I have long believed we are more humane to our pets than we are to humans.

Exactly. I made the decision to end my dog's life so that he didn't have to suffer, yet I would have to suffer because of stupid laws and the ridiculous medical requirement that doctors have to spend bazillions of dollars to keep a person alive in an ICU for as long as possible and religious beliefs that I don't even subscribe to? Fuck that shit.

[Rockinonahigh]

This strike a hard cord in me...When mom had her last stroke I was faced with this choice weather to leave her bed ridden in a highly vegetated state...as in zero brain waves of any kind,no eye reaction or response at all.Just machines keeping her breathig.For several days the docs and I did everthing possable to help her get pass this,but nothing worked.Mom and I had talked about what to do if and when this may happen to either of us and what to do.This was the hardest thing for me to do to make the choice she ask me to make.AFter talking to more doctors than u can emagine I made he call to let her go as she wished.I know I did the right thing but it nearly put me into a breakdown wich I wonder if ive ever gotten over the pain and loss of haveing to do what I did.She passed at 3am and for years I woke up at 3am..wide awake expecting to hear beeps of the machines and hearing nothing.Im ok, my son is ok but its something thats very hard to do.

[Words]

Originally Posted by PapaC

Does this mean, that if a loved one has a DNR in place (which, I've personally observed to mean many many different things), and a doctor comes to you to make a decision based on said DNR, you wouldn't be able to make an 'end' decision because God has the 'right' to end a life? -Chris

Correct. I wouldn't be able to make an 'end' decision. As much as I might want to, I wouldn't be able to do it.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

This strike a hard cord in me...When mom had her last stroke I was faced with this choice weather to leave her bed ridden in a highly vegetated state...as in zero brain waves of any kind,no eye reaction or response at all.Just machines keeping her breathig.For several days the docs and I did everthing possable to help her get pass this,but nothing worked.Mom and I had talked about what to do if and when this may happen to either of us and what to do.This was the hardest thing for me to do to make the choice she ask me to make.AFter talking to more doctors than u can emagine I made he call to let her go as she wished.I know I did the right thing but it nearly put me into a breakdown wich I wonder if ive ever gotten over the pain and loss of haveing to do what I did.She passed at 3am and for years I woke up at 3am..wide awake expecting to hear beeps of the machines and hearing nothing.Im ok, my son is ok but its something thats very hard to do.

I was in the exact same place with my Mom, post a second heart valve replacement surgery with a stroke complication. 12 years later, I still go over it in my mind and it broke me, too. And she was a woman that was very direct with her wishes, did not fear death and never was one to guilt-trip her children. An independent, kick-ass 81 year old that always had her say. She would not have wanted to be bed-ridden (her ride was a 4WD sports model that she could still drive to Reno to gamble with a car full of her crones!) and without the sharp mind she had right up until this happened. Yet, I struggled.

The problem was even with a DNR, she was not on a respirator, but given IV nourishment and fluids as well as medicines that literally kept her damaged heart beating. My decision was about taking nourishment (starving) from the woman that gave me life. Not pulling a plug knowing her heart would stop immediately. Also, there had been countless battles with docs during the 5 weeks she was hospitalized.

All I could do was just think of her words in life about how the quality was what was important to her. Still, this was my wild and crazy 103 pound tell it like it is Mom that had deepest maternal sensibility I have ever known. Then I realized, I was still struggling with my fear of life without her. That unknown, yet life's passage we do have to face. My Dad had already died and I had lost a sister and my brother within a couple years of her death. I watched my Mom lose 2 of her children and my Dad. She did it with remarkable strength and selflessness. Her worst fears come true as a parent. I know this did knock some of her piss and vinegar out afterwards, but, I think she knew she had to make sure she booted my butt enough to survive after the loss of my siblings. I had a child to raise.

Thankfully, she dies within a short time after the meds and IV nourishment was withheld. I just crawled in bed with her, held her, and felt a sharp tug/pain near my navel when her heart stropped.

I don't care how direct we are about these things, there are emotional elements we never see coming and it hurts. DNR's etc. do help immensely, yet, there is questioning, wondering about what this is going to feel like later. All the preparation in the world doesn't mean a thing at certain moments. It does, however, help afterwards. It does lighten the burden of being in this position later.

[Boots13]

Do you support euthanasia?
Yes !

What is your opinion on euthanasia?
It's a decision that empowers the individual who is seeking or denying treatment . It's an end of life decision that particular individual empowered in making.

If applicable, under what circumstances do you support it?
An adult, able to make a clear decision based on facts, feelings and desires to make an end of life decision.
A representative of that specific individual, able to follow a directive.

Under what circumstances do you not support it?
An individual not mentally capable of distinguishing what an end of life decision means. If someone is mentally incapacitated through trauma , then hopefully that person has had the forethought to have previously initiated a legal decree designating an end of life procedure.

How should patients be euthanized (by this I mean should it be done by hospital practitioners, or should a patient be able to do it in the comfort of their home? Should a religious figure be permitted to do it? A loved one?)
That should be the privilege of the individual to chose what is most appropriate for them.

What regulations, if any, do you think should be put in place to stop it/regulate it/allow it?
There should be some element put in place to prohibit a 3rd party from making a choice contrary to an individuals desire (to accomplish or to deny euthanasia )

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

This strike a hard cord in me...When mom had her last stroke I was faced with this choice weather to leave her bed ridden in a highly vegetated state...as in zero brain waves of any kind,no eye reaction or response at all.Just machines keeping her breathig.For several days the docs and I did everthing possable to help her get pass this,but nothing worked.Mom and I had talked about what to do if and when this may happen to either of us and what to do.This was the hardest thing for me to do to make the choice she ask me to make.AFter talking to more doctors than u can emagine I made he call to let her go as she wished.I know I did the right thing but it nearly put me into a breakdown wich I wonder if ive ever gotten over the pain and loss of haveing to do what I did.She passed at 3am and for years I woke up at 3am..wide awake expecting to hear beeps of the machines and hearing nothing.Im ok, my son is ok but its something thats very hard to do.

I was in the exact same place with my Mom, post a second heart valve replacement surgery with a stroke complication. 12 years later, I still go over it in my mind and it broke me, too. And she was a woman that was very direct with her wishes, did not fear death and never was one to guilt-trip her children. An independent, kick-ass 81 year old that always had her say. She would not have wanted to be bed-ridden (her ride was a 4WD sports model that she could still drive to Reno to gamble with a car full of her crones!) and without the sharp mind she had right up until this happened. Yet, I struggled.

The problem was even with a DNR, she was not on a respirator, but given IV nourishment and fluids as well as medicines that literally kept her damaged heart beating. My decision was about taking nourishment (starving) from the woman that gave me life. Not pulling a plug knowing her heart would stop immediately. Also, there had been countless battles with docs during the 5 weeks she was hospitalized.

All I could do was just think of her words in life about how the quality was what was important to her. Still, this was my wild and crazy 103 pound tell it like it is Mom that had deepest maternal sensibility I have ever known. Then I realized, I was still struggling with my fear of life without her. That unknown, yet life's passage we do have to face. My Dad had already died and I had lost a sister and my brother within a couple years of her death. I watched my Mom lose 2 of her children and my Dad. She did it with remarkable strength, grace and selflessness. Her worst fears come true as a parent. And she did lose the love of her life, my Dad and Mom indeed had it goin' on for 47 years. I know this did knock some of her piss and vinegar out afterwards, but, I think she knew she had to make sure she booted my butt enough to survive after the loss of my siblings. Her role as mother, as strong as ever, she had her youngest (me) to prepare for what life simply brings us. I had a child to raise I had recently took charge of due to my brother's death. She still had work to do!

Thankfully, she died within a short time after the meds and IV nourishment was withheld. I just crawled in bed with her, held her, and felt a sharp tug/pain near my navel when her heart stopped. Yes, this really happened and I did crack a window for her soul to leave. Molecules travel in mysterious ways as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care how direct we are about these things, there are emotional elements we never see coming and it hurts. DNR's etc. do help immensely, yet, there is questioning, wondering about what this is going to feel like later and if I am crossing into a decision tree that just is not mine to be in. All the preparation in the world doesn't mean a thing at certain moments. It does, however, help afterwards. It does lighten the burden of being in this position later.

[Rockinonahigh]

Your mom was a lot like mine,mom retired and went back to work cause retirement was for lazy ppl,her words not mine,she also went to the casino and gambled till dawn without batteing an eye while im fighting to stay awake at the next slot machine.I hope they have slots in the hear after cause both would injoy playing the time away.Moms ride wa a capri clasic,red with black roof..it was outfited like a sorts car and she drove it like one,I always felt sorry fo rslow ppl on the road when she was out driveing..me I was siting in the passenger seat behind the news paper cause I couldnt /wouldnt look at how fast she went.

[Corkey]

My wife and I have power of attorney over each others last wishes and medical decisions should they be needed. We have had in depth communication with each other and our forms are on file with our doctor and with the hospital. We both have DNR for end of life, and for mental acuity. Neither one of us want to be a vegetable, nor go thru heroic means to stay alive in body but have no quality of life.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am all for euthanasia. I have been with loved ones who were on life support and would have no quality of life if left on it. No, it was more humane to let the person go. Painful, hard, yes.

I think everyone should have a Will, and Power of Attorney made up and distributed to all the nec. parties. I know I sure have. I have a dnr in mine. No way do I want to live like a veggie. No way no how. It would be unfair of me to put that burden on my friends.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Selenay

What is your opinion on euthanasia?

I support euthanasia 100% under all circumstances, and believe that each person is perfectly capable of deciding whether they wish to live or die. To me, that is a decision that can only be made by the individual; not the government, not family or friends, not the doctors themselves. I find it quite telling that governments exist in the west that are legally able to choose to take a person's life or deny them the right to take their own life.

Originally Posted by Selenay

How should patients be euthanized (by this I mean should it be done by hospital practitioners, or should a patient be able to do it in the comfort of their home? Should a religious figure be permitted to do it? A loved one?)

If the patient is not conscious enough to make the decision for whatever reason, then I think it should be performed by a hospital practitioner (unless they've stated their wish prior to becoming comatose etc.). Should the patient still be conscious enough to express their wish, then I believe it should be done by whomever they choose, whether it be a medical practitioner, a religious figure or a family member or friend. Where it is performed should be up to the individual as well. After all, it is their life and their death, and no one should own that life/death, but the patient.

Originally Posted by Selenay

What regulations, if any, do you think should be put in place to stop it/regulate it/allow it?

At this point I'd like to use/address your own answer, Selenay.

I agree that a committee of some sort should exist, however, regulations should be set in place to be sure that these committees do not take an unnecessary length of time (whether too brief or too prolonged) to make the decision. Health care systems everywhere are suffering, and here in Canada tend to be understaffed because of our lovely conservative government. So in Canada, at least, we would have a bit of work to do as far as doing something about the current minority government and the toll Mr. Harper has taken upon this country's health care system. Part of that would be making sure enough medical staff are employed that such decisions would not be rushed or delayed due to hospitals being understaffed.

I believe the sole role of such a committee should be to assess whether or not the decision is influenced by families, doctors or other outside forces. However, I don't believe the ability of the patient to make a so-called cognizant decision, to me, should affect the outcome. I think it leaves room for a lot of abuse, especially when we get into who is deemed in possession of their full mental faculties and who is not, and how members of the committee, who should technically be unbiased persons, sway the decision.

I also find it odd to judge a person's right to take their life according to how cognizant they are. Say a patient requesting euthanasia is not found to be "aware" enough, or not mentally healthy enough to make the decision. However, said person has an advanced form of cancer with only a slim chance of recovery, yet the doctors deny him/her the right to die because he/she has been deemed not capable of making a cognizant decision. Or let's say that someone who is fully mentally aware and completely capable of reason has been diagnosed with cancer, and decides that they no longer wish to go through treatment, even if there is decent chance of recovery. To them the treatment has become excruciatingly painful both physically and mentally, and while there is a decent chance of survival, they do not like the prospects of what their life will be life after treatment (especially, when treatment has required the removal of a limb). It also seems as though we are simultaneously placing increased value on one person's pain over another's pain according to so-called mental awareness.

Both should have the right to end their own life, and neither government, nor doctor, nor family member should have the right to deny them that, in my books.

I do agree on the creation of such documents, however.

Originally Posted by Selenay

I think that if a patient is opting to select euthanasia, there should be a review committee, akin to a transplant review board, to determine a few things before the patient is permitted to chose that. In this case, there should be an evaluation to determine if the patient is able to make cognizant decisions about their own medical care and to determine that the patient is choosing it of their own free will, and not being pushed into it by family or doctors. There should also be a committee ensuring that the patient is, in fact, terminal, and that quality of life is already compromised.

This would mean that patients in an irreversible coma would not be eligible for such an action, however I would support the creation of a document like a DNR that would stipulate that in such a case they would prefer to be euthanized.

Originally Posted by Words

I would not condemn someone for choosing to end their own life rather than live in terrible pain (for example). On the contrary, my heart would absolutely go out to them.

I, however, would not be a part of their bringing their life to an end because I do believe that ultimately only God has the 'right' to end a life. And yes, this would apply even if I/a loved one was in agony. And yes, I have - for personal reasons - thought about this matter a great deal.

Words

Originally Posted by Words

Correct. I wouldn't be able to make an 'end' decision. As much as I might want to, I wouldn't be able to do it.

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for this, but something about these statements bothers me. Often the religious demand that their religious beliefs be respected both in life and in death, and yet, I feel that if that is to take place, then that respect must be reciprocal.

If an ill family member has requested that they be euthanised, and at one point it comes to a religious family member to give the word (in accordance with the patient's wishes) and said religious family member refuses, they often give the excuse that it is against their religious beliefs to do so. Yet this decision affects the free will of the ill family member who is no longer able to take matters into their own hands, yet who has specifically requested to be euthanised. In my opinion, refusing to carry out their last wishes shows disrespect toward the wishes of that ill family member.

I am not a religious person and often find myself at odds with religion, yet if a family member or friend has expressed a full religious service at their funeral and I have been given the responsibility assuring that they receive that service, it no longer comes down to my personal beliefs. It is not my funeral, and the funeral should have nothing to do with what I believe. I would do as they asked because I respect them and their beliefs.

I think if you respect someone, it becomes necessary to rise above one's own beliefs in such instances. In the case of euthanasia, it seems as though it strips the patient of the remnants of their own sovereignty.

Granted, such a conflict of beliefs could be solved by such a document as Selenay suggested, however, it's the principle behind it that bothers me.

My two cents on the issue.

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I believe the sole role of such a committee should be to assess whether or not the decision is influenced by families, doctors or other outside forces. However, I don't believe the ability of the patient to make a so-called cognizant decision, to me, should affect the outcome. I think it leaves room for a lot of abuse, especially when we get into who is deemed in possession of their full mental faculties and who is not, and how members of the committee, who should technically be unbiased persons, sway the decision.

I also find it odd to judge a person's right to take their life according to how cognizant they are. Say a patient requesting euthanasia is not found to be "aware" enough, or not mentally healthy enough to make the decision. However, said person has an advanced form of cancer with only a slim chance of recovery, yet the doctors deny him/her the right to die because he/she has been deemed not capable of making a cognizant decision. Or let's say that someone who is fully mentally aware and completely capable of reason has been diagnosed with cancer, and decides that they no longer wish to go through treatment, even if there is decent chance of recovery. To them the treatment has become excruciatingly painful both physically and mentally, and while there is a decent chance of survival, they do not like the prospects of what their life will be life after treatment (especially, when treatment has required the removal of a limb). It also seems as though we are simultaneously placing increased value on one person's pain over another's pain according to so-called mental awareness.

Both should have the right to end their own life, and neither government, nor doctor, nor family member should have the right to deny them that, in my books.

I do agree on the creation of such documents, however.

We have people in place to evaluate whether or not people are competent enough to stand trial, we have people to evaluate whether or not parents are fit to raise their children... all of these institutions are subjective, but are guided by overarching concepts of what determines competency.

As to the example of a patient not being deemed aware enough with the advanced form of cancer... No. I do not support euthanasia in this case because if they are not mentally competent to make a medical decision about themselves, then how can we be sure it is not something said in the throes of mood? If a patient determines that they do not wish to go through treatment, they can deny it, and once it is in the stages of decline, they can request to be euthanized.

I am not placing value on anyone over another, merely saying that... Well. Here's an example back to you:

Patient X has end stage pancreatic cancer and has stated, when previously asked, that they do not wish to be euthanized. Patient X is now in excruciating pain, slipping in and out of consciousness, talking about how she wishes for them to just kill her. Do we euthanize her?

How do we know that her request made from a conscious choice to refuse treatment or if it is a fever raving made from a wish for the PAIN to stop, not the LIFE? How can we be sure that Patient X truly wants to die, if she is not mentally sound to make that decision?

Should terminal children be euthanized solely on their parents say-so? Someone who is mentally impaired?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Selenay

We have people in place to evaluate whether or not people are competent enough to stand trial, we have people to evaluate whether or not parents are fit to raise their children... all of these institutions are subjective, but are guided by overarching concepts of what determines competency.

As to the example of a patient not being deemed aware enough with the advanced form of cancer... No. I do not support euthanasia in this case because if they are not mentally competent to make a medical decision about themselves, then how can we be sure it is not something said in the throes of mood? If a patient determines that they do not wish to go through treatment, they can deny it, and once it is in the stages of decline, they can request to be euthanized.

I am not placing value on anyone over another, merely saying that... Well. Here's an example back to you:

Patient X has end stage pancreatic cancer and has stated, when previously asked, that they do not wish to be euthanized. Patient X is now in excruciating pain, slipping in and out of consciousness, talking about how she wishes for them to just kill her. Do we euthanize her?

How do we know that her request made from a conscious choice to refuse treatment or if it is a fever raving made from a wish for the PAIN to stop, not the LIFE? How can we be sure that Patient X truly wants to die, if she is not mentally sound to make that decision?

Should terminal children be euthanized solely on their parents say-so? Someone who is mentally impaired?

Mentally impaired, no, children no, because their minds have not fully developed to understand the consequences of such an act. My mother had her mind, she never complained till the day she could not take the pain any longer. At the time Kavorkjan was in jail and could not come to help her. She had expressed in life as well as at the end that she didn't want heroic measures, and that she wanted if available legal euthanasia. That never happened in California. So her desperation to end the pain put my father in the unattainable position of having to deny her what she wanted most, her dignity. He would have gone to prison if he had complied with her wishes. That is why we need to have a national policy on this, and we need to treat our terminally ill citizens with all the respect they deserve.

[iamkeri1]

I think some of you are mixing up euthanasia with assisted suicide. I believe in assisted suicide, though it is a concept that I regard with extreme sadness.

Euthanasia is the ending of life by someone other than the person whose life is being ended, with or without their permission. This I do not support. I am handicapped following polio at age three. I walked on crutches for many years and have used a scooter for full time mobility for over ten years. What if (or when will) someone decide that there is no quality of life left for me? I value my life. I consider it to have a wonderful flavor and quality. But a sky diver or a snow skier might consider my life to be of a low quality.Yet wWho is able to decide for another what is quality?

For an individual who chooses to end their own life, I feel that is their choice (though I personally hate suicide) For someone else to choose to end another's life, for me that is not OK.
Smooches,
Keri
PS I don't believe in euthanasia for animals either. If there are lessons to be learned in a particular lifetime, then let me (and others, if they wish) learn ALL those lessons. Maybe the lesson I didn't learn last lifetime related to my death itself.

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by iamkeri1

I think some of you are mixing up euthanasia with assisted suicide. I believe in assisted suicide, though it is a concept that I regard with extreme sadness.

Euthanasia is the ending of life by someone other than the person whose life is being ended, with or without their permission.
Smooches,
Keri

Main Entry: assisted suicide
Function: noun
Date: 1976
: suicide committed by someone with assistance from another person; especially : physician-assisted suicide


Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia
Pronunciation: \ˌyü-thə-ˈnā-zh(ē-)ə\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death — more at thanatos
Date: 1869
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy