"Stud" versus "Butch"

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Dude

but she's like totally been a lesbian for a year now

Young, young and more young, with white privilege "perspective" thrown in for good measure.

I feel for young, searching and questioning kids looking for answers on YouTube.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Young, young and more young, with white privilege "perspective" thrown in for good measure.

I feel for young, searching and questioning kids looking for answers on YouTube.

It scares me to death. One day my daughter was watching some You Tube that her friend who was over said was hilarious. Our computer is "public" space so I was right there with them. It was a ninja video with these two boys, late teens, doing ninja style tree and then ninja style lion and then...ninja style faggot (!) with the word floating on the screen! I was appalled and immediately told them that was NOT acceptable and not funny and not to be shared or watched. I could not believe it!

Sorry for the derail. You Tube is scary.

[txdoc]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

You're kidding me right?

What perspective is this?

Inanity my dear...

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by txdoc

Inanity my dear...

So what was the point in posting a you tube that had zero to do with the convo?

please don't call me "dear" we're not homies thank you

[txdoc]

By the by...for those of you who thought I was intersecting an opinion, I was not. Perhaps my tag should have included a disclaimer. But I thought the speaker so inane that her self-important soliloquy would need no further disaffirmation.

[txdoc]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So what was the point in posting a you tube that had zero to do with the convo?

please don't call me "dear" we're not homies thank you

First of all, I did not mean to be disrespectful. That is not who I am. Secondly, your response felt like a slap. Just saying that it felt like being bullied. My perspective. And if that is what this site is about, then I would prefer to step away. There is enough of my life where I'm the one standing alone to protect others when they don't have a voice. Let's say that her opinion had been my opinion or understanding. Isn't there a better way to address it? Sometimes things are interjected into a conversation to begin a dialogue. I do not know you, but neither do you know me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Oh for fucks sake I'm a bully because I'm not empathetic to what some white kid defined Stud as?

Oh please!

Maybe you should read what the thread is about or supposed to be about.

Unbelievable!

[txdoc]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Oh for fucks sake I'm a bully because I'm not empathetic to what some white kid defined Stud as?

Oh please!

Maybe you should read what the thread is about or supposed to be about.

Unbelievable!

I have read the post from the beginning, dissenting opinions and all. And I did not call you a bully. I actually said that I felt I was being bullied by posting something that did not take the turn you projected for the conversation. Why would anyone want to propose a differing opinion from yours when all they would get would be wtf and are you kidding? If you want to dialogue about it, let's dialogue.

For the record, who said anyone was empathetic with the "white kid."

[The_Lady_Snow]

You said you felt like you were bullied, semantics.

The person in the video starts out with


Don't tell me that I'm wrong BEFORE she goes into her descriptors of lesbian, butch, Stud, Femme identities.


Femme-- girls who look entirely straight and girly

Dykes- a whole other level of lesbian



Butch-- buzzed hair no make up over sized clothing



Stud-- All pictures of white kids in between butch or femme, girls with short hair sag from the belt in between a boy or girl. Always short hair wear make up or eye liner


Hence the justifiable WTF, btw I'm not the only one going WTF why you not referring to them as bullyish? Hmm?

[Corkey]

Why post something that folks would find offensive in the first place?
It is cultural, the ID Stud, I don't think that a privileged white youngster is an authority on POC culture.

[txdoc]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Why post something that folks would find offensive in the first place?
It is cultural, the ID Stud, I don't think that a privileged white youngster is an authority on POC culture.

Corkey,

Obviously I did not think it through and for that I do apologize. My intent was not to offend.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by txdoc

Corkey,

Obviously I did not think it through and for that I do apologize. My intent was not to offend.

I'm not the only one who finds it so, obviously.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Why post something that folks would find offensive in the first place?
It is cultural, the ID Stud, I don't think that a privileged white youngster is an authority on POC culture.

True, but the thing is, she seems to believe she is and that makes me inclined to feel protective over her as she is, probably only about 18-19 years of age. I think that labels and identities are very changeable based on culture, ethnicity, background, age, experience, etc. This is her limited experience of the world and it is a perspective. That's it. Just one perspective in a slew of perspectives in the world.

I don't believe there is a thing as subjective reality. Reality is the world you've created and observed and experienced. We all gravitate toward others whose understanding of reality is similar to ours. This is what generates the destructive and ever-present "us versus them" mentality on this planet.

Was her video a bit immature? IMO,yes. However, I truly don't think she has an inkling of the butch/femme culture as it originated, which is something I have learned to have great respect for as I've researched and learned my roots, where this dynamic came from, and how sacred it is. I think the younger the generation, the less respectful simply because they have not had to fight for their place like their predecessors have. To them, sexuality has become fluid, almost a "style", instead of an identity.

I might get some flack for this but it's what I've observed. Again, perspective.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

True, but the thing is, she seems to believe she is and that makes me inclined to feel protective over her as she is, probably only about 18-19 years of age. I think that labels and identities are very changeable based on culture, ethnicity, background, age, experience, etc. This is her limited experience of the world and it is a perspective. That's it. Just one perspective in a slew of perspectives in the world.

I don't believe there is a thing as subjective reality. Reality is the world you've created and observed and experienced. We all gravitate toward others whose understanding of reality is similar to ours. This is what generates the destructive and ever-present "us versus them" mentality on this planet.

Was her video a bit immature? IMO,yes. However, I truly don't think she has an inkling of the butch/femme culture as it originated, which is something I have learned to have great respect for as I've researched and learned my roots, where this dynamic came from, and how sacred it is. I think the younger the generation, the less respectful simply because they have not had to fight for their place like their predecessors have. To them, sexuality has become fluid, almost a "style", instead of an identity.

I might get some flack for this but it's what I've observed. Again, perspective.

I have no problem with sexual fluidity, that isn't gender or cultural. I do find appropriating POC identities problematic, especially when one is white and privileged.

[Electrocell]

Butch-- buzzed hair no make up over sized clothing

I don't fit the buzzed hair look should I buzzz it ----nope don't think so but that's my opinion and the only one that counts right lol?
Everyone has a right to their on opinion but when you try to force it on other people then this is what happens .

[dixie]

I belong to different lesbian groups on facebook. A couple that I frequent more often primarily use the labels "fem/femme", "stud", "stem", and occasionally "butch". I had absolutely no clue what they were talking about half the time. So....I continually read and ask questions, to see what they are defining with these terms. (Especially stem. ??) In these groups, the participants are primarily younger and also predominantly POC. From what I gather of their interpretations, stud does seem to be more interchangeable with butch, although seemingly for the more younger generation. Usually the 20somethings will use the term stud while 30s+ tend to more often use butch. They themselves (discussing these groups only), do not seem to define stud as primarily a cultural term (which is how I had previously thought/heard described). Femmes were thought of as being the more feminine lesbian, while I myself was described by them as being a "stem". Apparently, this is because I am a more aggressive/tomboi-ish femme.

I know that the college femme was a lil whack with all the "shut the fuck up" and that she was way off base in some of her descriptions, but do I think perhaps somewhere in there she was accurately describing what some portion of the younger generation uses terminology-wise. I'm not saying that I agree with her video or that she is "correct" in any way, but I am saying that I do believe there are people out there who truly have the same thoughts/beliefs that she expressed, in reference to labels. I don't think they necessarily mean to take away from anyone else's labels/identities, but that perhaps it is youth and/or simply not knowing the history behind those labels. Especially with younger generations, they tend to follow/adopt those descriptors that they think associates with them, without really knowing where those terms came from.

Note: I am not presuming to speak for anyone, or assume that I know what people ARE thinking/meaning. I am simply stating what *my* observations were in those couple of small groups and with the video, in hopes of feedback to further my own knowledge/understanding.

[Corkey]

I would hope some educating goes on with these youngsters.

[Electrocell]

With each generation the terminology changes so they can better understand themselves as does the different types of lesbians/gays. Do gay guys have so many labels and different styles as gay women do? But if you push your beliefs on others it will meet with resistance. It's better to be a little more subtle in approach .

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

With each generation the terminology changes so they can better understand themselves as does the different types of lesbians/gays. Do gay guys have so many labels and different styles as gay women do? But if you push your beliefs on others it will meet with resistance. It's better to be a little more subtle in approach .

I think there is a difference between terminology and appropriation. One is the use of language to clearly define, the other is the taking without regard for another's culture. I also think that perhaps these kids need to respect folks culture and not just take what is not theirs.

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think there is a difference between terminology and appropriation. One is the use of language to clearly define, the other is the taking without regard for another's culture. I also think that perhaps these kids need to respect folks culture and not just take what is not theirs.

You definitely have a point there. Culture ----- civilization, society, mores , background traditions, ethnicity, customs , way of life. Those kids should respect their elders etc. but how many have been taught ---yes I said taught to do that?