Lesbian Butches - Coming home to ourselves....

[Kobi]

In the lesbian pride thread, some butches expressed the feeling of wanting to reconcil with their woman/female selves after years of self-estrangement.

So, here is a space to ferret it out for ourselves. I am not sure how best to do this so I will just throw out some ideas to get things rolling.

We might want to talk about how we became self estranged - was it an internal thing, were there external forces at play, was it a combination?

We might also want to talk about how self estrangement feels to us and the impact it had on how we see ourselves.

We might want to address what led us to want to reconcil this part of us and why doing so is important to us.

We might also want to make suggestions on how to reconcil with yourself, what does it involve?

And we might want to express our thoughts on how we envision this reconciliation to enhance who we are.

Feel free to add on here.

I trust the respect and support that developed in the Lesbian Pride thread, from all parts of the community, will continue here.

I will watch with interest. The other lesbian threads have been thought very provoking for a myriad of reasons.

[Chazz]

Thank you for the thread, Kobi.


WHY LESBIAN ETHICS
by Sarah Lucia Hoagland

"In claiming lesbian focus, I began to notice things I had not noticed when my focus was on men or on women [or, on myself as masculine gendered]. And I found that at this point in time, at least, lesbian existence creates certain conceptual possibilities that can effect conceptual shifts in consciousness." - Sarah Lucia Hoagland

[Kobi]

I should have some idea of where I want this post to go. But I dont. So, what may come will probably be as much a surprise to me as it will be to you.

I never thought to see what I was feeling as an indication of self estrangement. I mean I have always felt female and have always claimed woman. That wasnt my issue.

My issue was more about expressing what female and woman was or could be. I'm 55, life was a whole different ball of wax back then. So, I wasnt estranged per se as much as I just had another vision of reality.

In everyday life, the community I found was one that encouraged women to be whatever and whoever they were. Discussions about lesbian and feminist issues were a big deal. But, I rarely remember discussions about who is a lesbian or what is a lesbian or how lesbians are supposed to look, dress etc. or who fits in the club except in joking ways - i.e. I do not camp. My idea of camping is a fully stocked room at the Marriott. I endured many a ribbing about wtf kind of lesbian was I? Tho, I do remember a few hurricanes where I wished I had those skills and equipment. And, I remember the time my ultra femme but straight landlord showed up to rewire the lamp post in the driveway. She was dressed to kill in a skin tight dress, heels, perfect make up, perfect hair, perfect nails. I, of course, puffed out my chest and went to help i.e. "rescue the lady". It took all of 10 minutes for both of us to conclude I was the most unhandy person on the face of the earth and my butch badge was in serious in jeopardy.

I dont remember any partner of mine who made me feel I wasnt masculine enough or butch enough. I do remember a host of women making it clear I wasnt butch or masculine enough for what they were looking for. But that's different.

My contacts with men and things male was limited to those necessary evils i.e. family, work, friends husbands/boyfriends, neighbors etc. But, my world was women oriented, women filled, women everything. My health professionals were all women, my service people were all women, etc.

As can often happen when you are living your bliss, you get content, comfortable, complacent, and are totally unaware of what is going on around you.

My awareness of female, woman, feminist, butch thing in a whole new way developed from being on this website. Once I got past the shock of wtf are all these men doing here, I was confronted with a new reality that made my internal world go wonky.

Here, as a female, a woman, and a lesbian, I felt threatened and unsafe. As enlightened as one can be, there is always the memory of the patriarchy lingering inside. I was thinking things like it is just a matter of time before these guys take over and macho shitheadness (my all encompassing term for things male) will become the norm. And wth are these women thinking?

It's kind of funny now but it wasnt making me laugh back then. Back then, I was stuck on we have all these zones but no lesbian zone. Hm. I, as a woman and a butch have been lumped in with guys. Hm. I, as a women and a butch, suddenly did not feel I was enough as I was. There seemed to be a masculinity scale thing going on. Hm. I, as a single woman and butch, am competing with men. How the heck does a lesbian compete with men and why would she? Hm. How do I talk to these guys - shouldnt be that complicated but trust me, it was. Hm. Why am I having so much trouble connecting, in the way I am used to connecting, with the women here? Hm. I am surrounded (it seemed) by men who are making me very aware of my femaleness and womanness in a way that is making me uncomfortable. Hm.

It was an internal thing set off by external influences tapping into old stereotypes and histories and setting up new realities and challenges. It took a while to get passed the "I'm too old for this shit" mentality.

But, I learned a lot along the way and am still learning. The men here have been nothing but sweet, nice, pleasant, respectful, supportive and a lot of other nifty things. Even when they do gender based stuff, I know it is not out of malaciousness. And there are plenty of women here ready to deal with it anyway.

For me, being here forced me to revisit myself in a whole new way. It wasnt comfortable or a whole lot of fun, but it has been interesting.

The most important part of it was reconnecting with myself in ways that I hadnt done in decades. Reaffirming my femaleness and womanness has taken on a whole new meaning for me. Being visible as a woman and a lesbian has become very important again. Being involved in the community in a different way has become more important to me.

In some ways it is very simple. In others it is more complex but I dont have the words to explain it. Some of it, I am still trying to figure out. Whatever it is, it feels good. To see others feeling similarly feels validating and reassuring.

Funny thing about being a person. We change, we adapt, we try things on, we find what works, we deal with an endless supply of challenges, we grow, we evolve. And in the end, it is a really all about a journey back to ourselves.

[OS Butch]

Funny that you would start this thread today, for me anyways. I am 54 and I too have always had my woman,female, lesbian self.
Today I found a picture of me in the early 80's. It reminded me that way back then I was searching for the right skin I felt comfy. That picture sure reminded me of the struggles to find out where I fit in.... I look at that picture and boy, was I never gonna fit in as a Femme!
It wasn't long after that that I found comfort in having my masculine side, my Butch came out and I finally was comfortable. Back then, I use to really get upset when I would get a sir, I would say "yanno, I do have boobs" or something blatant like that. Today I just smile and correct them, or not, they figure it out and get just as red.
From 1994 to 2002, when my daughter was in elementary school, I did for my daughter what some consider unthinkable, I again pulled out the dresses for school functions and only school functions. Once she hit intermediate school, it was cool to have a lesbian mom, a butch one at that!
She, my daughter, always accepted me as Butch. It was the outside world that didn't. Now, I don't really care, I am a Lesbian Butch Woman.
OSB...aka Jo or Joan or JJ

[Apocalipstic]

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

[OS Butch]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

I am sure I didn't see a sign that only Lesbian Butches could come in.

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

Sing is sistah! Viva la butches ~ woot!

[Bard]

well I am proud to be Lesbain and Butch it has at time been aquward for me finding the ballance and understanding myself soneone once put it to me like this I am a study in contrasts yup I am a female tyvm and I love women and I have a lot of masculine traits to long I thougth I had to be one or the other but finally I get it.. I once looked at pictures with my dad and he was like ok what one is the real you and you know he was right I felt lke the bull in the china shop all girlafied much more at home in my own skin in my jeans boots and hats ahh well one of the things I love about the planet is all the diffrences and all we learn form eachother
I hope to give to my daughter the ablity to feel good in her own skin and I always tell her I love you just as you are
off my little soapbox now just thanks to all the butches femms and the famliy here y'all helped me in the journey called living

[istolurboxers38]

I am a femme sort of. I am sort of a redneck femme as my one friend put it. I love my high heels and makeup. I like to be sexy even though I dont feel it. The main difference is I go out in jeans and t shirts can use a chainsaw, cut wood, get dirty, garden, and play football with the boys. I dont see why there needs to be catagories because I dont fit into one. Yes I lean more towards the butches but I have the worst luck in relationships anyways. To me I say be who you want and how you feel for that day. If you love yourself then the person you choose to be with should love you for you too. These are just my thoughts DJ

[ButchKnight]

feels good to be back and reconnect with old friends and meet new ones
Lesbian Butch and Proud

BK

[fever]

I am glad you are "home" too. It has been a very challenging time for you, dear BK. I hope your heart is healing, and I also hope we connect on the phone soon. What are your hours at school?

(and, you are still my favourite surrogate daddy who helps femmes who don't know how to mix drinks, all while wearing a leather vest and pj's)

hugs

[JustBeingMe]

Originally Posted by istolurboxers38

I am a femme sort of. I am sort of a redneck femme as my one friend put it. I love my high heels and makeup. I like to be sexy even though I dont feel it. The main difference is I go out in jeans and t shirts can use a chainsaw, cut wood, get dirty, garden, and play football with the boys. I dont see why there needs to be catagories because I dont fit into one. Yes I lean more towards the butches but I have the worst luck in relationships anyways. To me I say be who you want and how you feel for that day. If you love yourself then the person you choose to be with should love you for you too. These are just my thoughts DJ

Hon, all that and a bucket of chicken too !! It only makes you a very self sufficient woman to be able to do all those things. And there is NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!! And what a cute screen name ta boot!!

[*Anya*]

**Bumping this thread**

[Two-spirit]

I'm a two spirit native american woman. This is my first time on this site and I enjoy reading all of your messages..

Even thou I knew I was different when I was in elementry school I did come out to my family when I was 13. I've always been a sports jock and even today I'm out and proud of who I am.

No matter where u stand in life and how you see yourself. I just hope of you are well and no matter what keep your head up ..

Little Feather