"Tough Guise"

D-Money · 11-15-2009, 09:36 AM

an extremely interesting video about the downside of the facade of masculinity.

it's geared toward high school and college aged men, but i think it reaches further than that= to anyone who wears the cloak of masculinity and all of us who live with those who do- which means all of us ... interesting stuff.

i'll just leave this here ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2437500432634#

BullDog · 11-16-2009, 11:01 AM

Thank you for posting this. I plan to watch the video later when I have time. I see queer communities often reveling in masculinity and thinking we can bond over masculinity without a lot of examination or discussion about it is or where it comes from, and it makes me very uneasy.

I see lots of people wanting to be acknowledged as male or masculine but not really show much self reflection or take on the responsibilities or consequences of what that means in our culture at large or in queer communities or butch femme communities specifically. There's a lot of posturing, but how much substance? None of us are immune from the cultures we come from.

I am butch, I am masculine and do enjoy being masculine- but the "tough guise"- it needs to be examined.

Thanks again D-Money.

D-Money · 11-16-2009, 01:26 PM

awesome, Bulldog!! i hope folks are able to find the time to watch this ... there's a lot of great stuff in this video. it's important!!

(good to see you again, Bulldog!)

Gryph · 11-18-2009, 12:37 PM

I won't be able to watch it all, as I have to go to work, but what I've seen so far...Powerful!

Toughy · 11-18-2009, 02:03 PM

damn...........I'm sending the link to my nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews........and a whole bunch of other folks

the 'average American in the Heartland' really really needs to see this.......

comments to come after I digest..........

PapaC · 11-18-2009, 02:34 PM

No kidding. I'm listening to this right now, and I think I'm in love with this man who made this film.

D-Money · 11-18-2009, 02:44 PM

i'm so glad some folks are viewing this and appreciating it! and passing it on!

Mister Bent · 11-20-2009, 05:57 PM

I just wanted to pop in and say that I plan on taking the time to sit still long enough to watch this weekend.

This video has inspired some important conversation, and I hope that we can continue it here, with open minds and respect.

Toughy, looking forward to reading your impressions.

D-Money · 11-23-2009, 09:09 AM

yay!! did you, Bent?

Toughy · 11-23-2009, 05:20 PM

My thoughts are about misogyny and the way almost all cultures for the last 2000 years place far more value on masculine/male/man. This devaluing of feminine/female/woman has lead us to this video that drives home the idea that women are vessels for the next generation of men. And you can objectify and beat us and do what ever you want because we are not as good as men........we are 'other' and 'less than'.

This focus on a false definition of what it means to be masculine or male or man has created such violence and objectification against women and against men.

This has become so institutionalized that some folks find a headless torso wiggling around to be funny. Some folks don't even get how that kind of thing sets the stage for more violence and more objectification and makes it difficult to raise boys and men differently.

And then there is advertising.........how products are marketed and the difference in the way products are marketed depending on the target audience.

Girls and women are becoming more violent in this culture.....and not just in the US. That is happening because violence has become the norm and girls think it's ok to be violent. And I'm not just talking about physical abuse kind of violence. Violence does not have to be physical.

That's some of what is running around in my head. I need to go back and watch the video again.

D-Money · 11-27-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

This focus on a false definition of what it means to be masculine or male or man ...

i wouldn't call it "false" ... it exists and is accepted- by men and women alike.

i also wouldn't say that it is fair or healthy- especially for men.

it is real and it is what it is ... and can be changed. it must be changed.

we can't begin to change a thing until we understand it, where it came from and why it's still "working".

as far as women have come in the last 40 years, men need to come that far as well.

upholding the facade of traditional masculinity is making men- and all others who strive to meet this strange ideal- live shorter, less fulfilling lives.

Bad_boi · 05-03-2010, 06:13 PM

To me a real man/butch/masculine carbon based lifeform, is tough. But there are many ways of being tough that have little to do with violence or anger. Tough can be physical, or mental. Tough can be standing up for what you beleve in. Tough can be giving your friend your coat because she is cold and you are tough enough to tolerate the cold till you get inside.

But that is merely one thing that makes someone a real man. I think another attribute is to be the guy who stands behind those hy loves. Hy is a good significant other, a good friend that helps you and understands you if hy is a dad hy loves and supports hys kids. Hy is the kind of person who you can call at midnight for someone to talk to. Hy is the nice guy who does not mind fixing something of helping move something.

Just because your masculine does not mean you have the feelings of a pet rock!

chai~ · 02-26-2012, 10:36 PM

~saving for later~

11-15-2009, 09:36 AM	#1
D-Money Member How Do You Identify?: i do what i want :) Relationship Status: well, i'm not banging my ex anymore, so that's good ;) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: at The Pink Taco. really ... it's called The Pink Taco ;) Posts: 126 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 0 Thanked 85 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 48486	"Tough Guise" an extremely interesting video about the downside of the facade of masculinity. it's geared toward high school and college aged men, but i think it reaches further than that= to anyone who wears the cloak of masculinity and all of us who live with those who do- which means all of us ... interesting stuff. i'll just leave this here ... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2437500432634#

11-18-2009, 12:37 PM	#4
Gryph Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Married to a wonderful girl Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 80 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 90 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts Rep Power: 957	I won't be able to watch it all, as I have to go to work, but what I've seen so far...Powerful! __________________ "Some days I feel as if I live in Paradise and some days I feel as if I live with a pair a dice." - Storm Cloud Woman "The three things that bring the most balance into my life, Will, Intent and Purpose. With out these there is no honor." - Storm Cloud Woman

11-20-2009, 05:57 PM	#8
Mister Bent Senior Member How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: . Posts: 2,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,151 Thanked 5,831 Times in 1,721 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I just wanted to pop in and say that I plan on taking the time to sit still long enough to watch this weekend. This video has inspired some important conversation, and I hope that we can continue it here, with open minds and respect. Toughy, looking forward to reading your impressions. __________________ Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

11-16-2009, 11:01 AM	#2
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,783 Times in 4,470 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Thank you for posting this. I plan to watch the video later when I have time. I see queer communities often reveling in masculinity and thinking we can bond over masculinity without a lot of examination or discussion about it is or where it comes from, and it makes me very uneasy. I see lots of people wanting to be acknowledged as male or masculine but not really show much self reflection or take on the responsibilities or consequences of what that means in our culture at large or in queer communities or butch femme communities specifically. There's a lot of posturing, but how much substance? None of us are immune from the cultures we come from. I am butch, I am masculine and do enjoy being masculine- but the "tough guise"- it needs to be examined. Thanks again D-Money.

11-16-2009, 01:26 PM	#3
D-Money Member How Do You Identify?: i do what i want :) Relationship Status: well, i'm not banging my ex anymore, so that's good ;) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: at The Pink Taco. really ... it's called The Pink Taco ;) Posts: 126 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 0 Thanked 85 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 48486	awesome, Bulldog!! i hope folks are able to find the time to watch this ... there's a lot of great stuff in this video. it's important!! (good to see you again, Bulldog!)

11-18-2009, 02:03 PM	#5
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,656 Times in 1,522 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	damn...........I'm sending the link to my nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews........and a whole bunch of other folks the 'average American in the Heartland' really really needs to see this....... comments to come after I digest..........

11-18-2009, 02:34 PM	#6
PapaC Member How Do You Identify?: FTM-Queer Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: west coast Posts: 214 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 412 Thanked 486 Times in 111 Posts Rep Power: 1281636	No kidding. I'm listening to this right now, and I think I'm in love with this man who made this film.

11-18-2009, 02:44 PM	#7
D-Money Member How Do You Identify?: i do what i want :) Relationship Status: well, i'm not banging my ex anymore, so that's good ;) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: at The Pink Taco. really ... it's called The Pink Taco ;) Posts: 126 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 0 Thanked 85 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 48486	i'm so glad some folks are viewing this and appreciating it! and passing it on!

11-23-2009, 09:09 AM	#9
D-Money Member How Do You Identify?: i do what i want :) Relationship Status: well, i'm not banging my ex anymore, so that's good ;) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: at The Pink Taco. really ... it's called The Pink Taco ;) Posts: 126 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 0 Thanked 85 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 48486	yay!! did you, Bent?

11-23-2009, 05:20 PM	#10
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,656 Times in 1,522 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	My thoughts are about misogyny and the way almost all cultures for the last 2000 years place far more value on masculine/male/man. This devaluing of feminine/female/woman has lead us to this video that drives home the idea that women are vessels for the next generation of men. And you can objectify and beat us and do what ever you want because we are not as good as men........we are 'other' and 'less than'. This focus on a false definition of what it means to be masculine or male or man has created such violence and objectification against women and against men. This has become so institutionalized that some folks find a headless torso wiggling around to be funny. Some folks don't even get how that kind of thing sets the stage for more violence and more objectification and makes it difficult to raise boys and men differently. And then there is advertising.........how products are marketed and the difference in the way products are marketed depending on the target audience. Girls and women are becoming more violent in this culture.....and not just in the US. That is happening because violence has become the norm and girls think it's ok to be violent. And I'm not just talking about physical abuse kind of violence. Violence does not have to be physical. That's some of what is running around in my head. I need to go back and watch the video again.

05-03-2010, 06:13 PM	#12
Bad_boi Member How Do You Identify?: Transman (male) Preferred Pronoun?: He, Him, His ect. Relationship Status: Handsome bastard. Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 727 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 122 Thanked 1,824 Times in 499 Posts Rep Power: 0	To me a real man/butch/masculine carbon based lifeform, is tough. But there are many ways of being tough that have little to do with violence or anger. Tough can be physical, or mental. Tough can be standing up for what you beleve in. Tough can be giving your friend your coat because she is cold and you are tough enough to tolerate the cold till you get inside. But that is merely one thing that makes someone a real man. I think another attribute is to be the guy who stands behind those hy loves. Hy is a good significant other, a good friend that helps you and understands you if hy is a dad hy loves and supports hys kids. Hy is the kind of person who you can call at midnight for someone to talk to. Hy is the nice guy who does not mind fixing something of helping move something. Just because your masculine does not mean you have the feelings of a pet rock!

02-26-2012, 10:36 PM	#13
chai~ Member How Do You Identify?: Self possessed Aquarian Preferred Pronoun?: Don't call me baby~ Relationship Status: Deliciously single and loving it. Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: lotus land Posts: 1,173 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,937 Thanked 3,383 Times in 864 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	~saving for later~