Scaring straight women.. rawwrrr... lol

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by Strappie

Welcome to a Butches world.... We or at least I go through this almost daily. Not being asked but the gesture's and the looks and yes even the "sir, you have the wrong bathroom."

It's every day living for me.

I know, Strappie. I was just venting in the femme room, cause well.. it bugged me. It was never my intent to diminish a butches experience at all! I know that I have femme privilege, and I guess I am just used to it, to be frank. I was raised in a queer household, and am pretty much surrounded by the queer community and supporters, so I have never really encountered this (besides an isolated incident that happened in the past). Femme privilege and invisibility can be a bitch tho too... but that's another thread.

Hugs to you Strap
Starry

[The_Lady_Snow]

I think it's great that you vented in the Femme Zone starry, we Femme's need to vent and have OTHER Femmes share this form of imposed intrusion. Sorry YOU had to experience this ickiness with your ignorant co worker.

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I think it's great that you vented in the Femme Zone starry, we Femme's need to vent and have OTHER Femmes share this form of imposed intrusion. Sorry YOU had to experience this ickiness with your ignorant co worker.

Thanks!

[dixie]

Totally agree with the "every man" thing. Normally when I run across this scenario I simply ask them "Do you believe every man you meet is attracted to you?" They always say no. I then ask them why they think every woman would be. (Unless they're totally rude then I just say "Then why would you be so conceited to think that every woman would".) Usually you can see the light bulb go off above their heads as if this thought process never occurred to them.

(We're discussing gender/non-gendered issues next week, so can't wait to see what the girl comes up with for that one. )

[starryeyes]

Me too... lol. Let us know!!!

[always2late]

Sigh...I work with a woman who, once she found out I was gay, felt the need to adamantly assert that she is straight in just about every conversation. Finally I kinda put it out there that I was not attracted to her...and got the reaction that others on the thread have described. The "Why not???" reaction. And then...having decided she could still be my "friend" even though I don't want her...now weekly tries to set me up...with other femmes! And canNOT for the life of her understand why I tell her that I am not attracted to them...because, after all...they are GAY (and apparently that is the only thing I require to find someone attractive). I tried the "Well are you attracted to every man that crosses your field of vision just because they are men?" The response? "But they're gay!" *rme* If it wasn't so pathetically ignorant it would almost be funny.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by starryeyes

I know, Strappie. I was just venting in the femme room, cause well.. it bugged me. It was never my intent to diminish a butches experience at all! I know that I have femme privilege, and I guess I am just used to it, to be frank. I was raised in a queer household, and am pretty much surrounded by the queer community and supporters, so I have never really encountered this (besides an isolated incident that happened in the past). Femme privilege and invisibility can be a bitch tho too... but that's another thread.

Hugs to you Strap
Starry

I didn't see your post at all diminishing of the "butch experience." Nor do I see this as a discussion about privilege (for which there are threads), but rather an entirely separate issue unique to feminine presenting queer women.

This:

Originally Posted by Ms. Meander

I think part of what scares them is that they didn't see us coming. They were hanging out with us, enjoying our company, thinking that we are pretty cool - and one of them.

Finding out that their neat little definitions of us are completely wrong and that we are the dreaded "other", throws them into a narrow-minded spin.

And then, also:

Originally Posted by Ms. Meander

Because the next thing out of their mouths is going to be something about what I really want is a real man but I don't know it because I am fucked up in some way. AT THIS POINT - someone is about to be slapped.

and

Originally Posted by Martina

i kinda agree that this is not exactly the same as what butches deal with. There is that shock of betrayal because they assumed we were straight, and they identify with us more, find it harder to "other" us. They are more likely then to say inappropriate and intrusive things, even people who are not normally like that.

Butches, transgendered folk, we're already "othered;" we're not in the club, and so this isn't something we are likely to experience. It's not the same as the looks we get when someone decides we're in the wrong restroom. Over the years, I have heard isolated tales from femme friends; incidents like yours, starry, that speak to this acceptance (the privilege of which you spoke), then "betrayal" or shock, or objectification, and then the "othering." I hope it doesn't seem weird or inappropriate, but I suppose I was interested in seeing if your post was going to open up that discussion among the feminine women here. I really hope I'm making sense here (and probably should get out of the way of those to whom this issue is relevant).

[foxyshaman]

Invisible here too.

I seem to live in the black singleton, black jean, black boot capital of the prairie closed mind. I love my tight jeans, my heels, or flip flops, fun hair, multi-colored toe nails, earrings that never match.... and the list goes on. I tell ya when I walk into our gay bars I am OUT OF PLACE. I swear if I walked in wearing the black attire, it would be easier... But for the most part I am never seen on the street. I am always SHOCKED when I am spotted out and about.

In the straight world... like work...well this is one thing I accidentally learnt...never ever playfully flirt with a co-worker (no matter how cute her ass looks in the sweet black skirt) cause one day she may be your boss. Yup fun times for me. It has been four years since I transferred to her group, and she is still not comfortable with me... what's a gal to do?? I should have done what my grandmother taught me "save my breath to cool my porridge". I don't ever flirt anymore at work...nope not ever...

[Gemme]

My boss kind of knows I'm queer. One of her sons is gay and we've discussed that and her diffiiculties in coming to terms with it. She knows that one of my past partners was female. She has no idea, as far as I know, that Ebon is TG.

I don't think she'll go all 'ohhh, now it's going to be weird working with you, etc' but there's that fear that does lie in the back of my mind that it could happen, if not with her, then with others. This company is designed to be a family environment and with that comes gossip and familial judgements. I am most likely going to be with this company for a while and I don't want to create any blunders that could make that time more difficult for me than it has to be. Perhaps that's being selfish and maybe I'm not putting forth the "proper" amount of GLBT3Q2I activism, but it's my reality.

I've never had anyone directly say to me, once they learned I'm Queer, that they thought I would hit on them or that there would be any kind of inappropriate work relationship with them. There was one girl who I did detect a slight bit of disappointment as time went on after she found out and I think she was hoping I'd hit on her. She was soooo not my type though.

Even though I haven't had that confrontation with someone, I do keep in mind it could come any time someone new finds out. It's not as bad as walking on eggshells but I do feel stifled a bit. One day....one day....I'll be able to not worry about it at all and that will be a nice day.

[Pixie]

I find it humorous that when, specifying what your interests are, a person can come back with "ohhhh, that explains alot." Wtf???
A minute ago you thought I was swimming after the same fish? People astound me at times.

[TickledPink]

My biggest gripe about the "straight woman finding out I'm queer" talk is when said person meets my partner, then later says, "I don't get it, they look like a guy, whey don't you just date guys?"

OY FUCKING VEY!

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by TickledPink

My biggest gripe about the "straight woman finding out I'm queer" talk is when said person meets my partner, then later says, "I don't get it, they look like a guy, whey don't you just date guys?"

OY FUCKING VEY!

Agreed!

Starry

[DoReMiFemme]

Originally Posted by TickledPink

My biggest gripe about the "straight woman finding out I'm queer" talk is when said person meets my partner, then later says, "I don't get it, they look like a guy, whey don't you just date guys?"

OY FUCKING VEY!

Also agreed. This one of my biggest pet peeves. I will note that I seem to get this kind of commentary less from my straight female friends and more from my male friends (be they gay or straight). Not sure why that is?

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by DoReMiFemme

Also agreed. This one of my biggest pet peeves. I will note that I seem to get this kind of commentary less from my straight female friends and more from my male friends (be they gay or straight). Not sure why that is?

My gay male friends also do not understand, or sometimes even respect my preferences for butches. The grab femmes in bars, introduce me to them, tell me that someday I will end up with a "pretty girl" etc. Such a weird dynamic. I still love my gays tho. I accept it more coming from them, and even laugh it off. I absolutely despise it coming from the straight world... I dunno why? Maybe I need to examine that.

Starry

[Ms. Meander]

Originally Posted by Martina

i kinda agree that this is not exactly the same as what butches deal with. There is that shock of betrayal because they assumed we were straight, and they identify with us more, find it harder to "other" us. They are more likely then to say inappropriate and intrusive things, even people who are not normally like that.

Yes. Exactly.

The situation in the OP happens to me occasionally but even more often, the straight woman (who is practically a stranger, no more than an acquaintance), upon learning of my queerness, suddenly feels entitled to ask intimate questions of the sort that they would never dream of asking other people in polite conversation. Often these questions are based in such ignorance that I feel compelled to illuminate.

I am not one to shy away from frank sexual discussion but in cases like these, I often feel like the circus freak in the eyes of the questioner which feels somehow diminishing.

I am not a spectacle, here for your amusement.

I suspect the reason they feel comfortable being inappropriate has to do with the fact that they did identify with me before I came out to them, and therefore feel some level of safety. I also believe that whether they are "afraid" I will now try to bed them OR they simply take liberties in conversation, the motivation has everything to do with their own fears and insecurities. If they liked me so much before they knew, if they identified with me, perhaps even admired me in some way - what does this now say about them? I believe most of the reactions we are discussing have to do with her trying to figure out herself in relation to me, given the new information. Curiosity is fine. Understandable. But I am still a person - who appreciates my privacy and a certain amount of etiquette among strangers and acquaintances.

I am forced to come out regularly. Again and again. I sometimes find it tiresome but generally accept it. In our society, I am "other". I am proud of who I am and who I love.

[Merlin]

*sticks head round the door* I think all you femmes are amazing,the way you all stand by us makes me fuzzy inside.

You are amazing !!

[Heart]

I live in a place where there are many diverse queers and although I am most likely seen as straight initially, I have not had to deal with the kind of homophobic confrontations described here. But I have dealt with the rather odd phenomena of having straight women contact me via a few dating sites I have been on to say that they would like to talk to me about their needs/feelings about wanting to try sleeping with a woman. Has any other femme experienced this?

I have also had several straight women openly proposition me on dating sites. This is curious as I assume they'd go for more "butch" women. But who knows? I have ignored these messages since I am not in the business of talking to strangers about, nor satisfying, their queer-curiosity. It feels hugely intrusive since I'm on a dating site in order to date interesting out butches, as I clearly say.

Heart

P.S. I think this is an important discussion that has not been had before, to my recollection, and it has zip to do with butch experiences. Femmes have their own experiences.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Heart

I live in a place where there are many diverse queers and although I am most likely seen as straight initially, I have not had to deal with the kind of homophobic confrontations described here. But I have dealt with the rather odd phenomena of having straight women contact me via a few dating sites I have been on to say that they would like to talk to me about their needs/feelings about wanting to try sleeping with a woman. Has any other femme experienced this?

I have also had several straight women openly proposition me on dating sites. This is curious as I assume they'd go for more "butch" women. But who knows? I have ignored these messages since I am not in the business of talking to strangers about, nor satisfying, their queer-curiosity. It feels hugely intrusive since I'm on a dating site in order to date interesting out butches, as I clearly say.

Heart

P.S. I think this is an important discussion that has not been had before, to my recollection, and it has zip to do with butch experiences. Femmes have their own experiences.

I've experienced uncomfortable "hey what's it like to lick on *****" or just ugly come at me at a dinner table cause I'm queer and want to have deep conversations on what it's like to be with women.

I don't mind sharing, answering questions sometimes though the straight women can be intrusive and down right crude with their questions and it almost feel like I am under a microscope so I won't participate if their intent is coming off that way.

Other than that straight girls stay away, I'm pretty Queer, as soon as I open my mouth you can tell I'm nothing like a straight woman.

As for measuring our experiences to that of butches.

I don't like it when we (Femmes) try to have conversations within our zone and then butches/guys come in with the whole "now you know" thing.

I don't nor will I my experiences as a Femme are different, still VALID, still REAL, they are what WE (Femmes) go through and sometimes we just wanna talk about it amongst ourselves and get tips or just have someone with commonality *listen*

I'm truly sorry this happened to you starry, sometimes it's hard to maneuver relationships with straight folk at work and other places, they have all the space in the world to be straight where we do not. I would definitely keep a journal of the happenings for work purposes in case this woman attempts to act out or continue to be weird and make your work space weird.

Thanks for sharing.

[Merlin]

Of course we experience things differently.

I did get a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when I read now you know what we go through.

It's not a p*ssing contest to see who has had a rougher deal in life.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Merlin

Of course we experience things differently.

I did get a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when I read now you know what we go through.

It's not a p*ssing contest to see who has had a rougher deal in life.

I never said it was a pissing contest.

This is the FEMME zone, so it's intrusive to have butches/guys shame us on our experience. This was supposed to be space designed where Femme's could come and discuss their trials and tribulations in the world, with one another, etc etc.