Clothes do not Maketh the butch ....

Merlin · 05-08-2011, 05:13 PM

Or do they ?

How important is clothing to you ?

amiyesiam · 05-08-2011, 05:18 PM

clothes do not make the femme
or do they

it matters to some
it doesn't matter to some

it is individual

i am to busy worrying about being me to worry about what others think about me

The_Lady_Snow · 05-08-2011, 05:28 PM

Butch is a gender no? The shell does not represent gender, that's just me

Merlin · 05-08-2011, 05:29 PM

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

Corkey · 05-08-2011, 05:53 PM

Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K?

We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all).

You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks.

Daywalker · 05-08-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

Or do they ?

How important is clothing to you ?

I prefer to be wearing some.

Bending minds ~ Shapeshifting theories.

It's up to all of us to bury those rusty ways of thinking.

I mean, unless I am walking around covered in a box, I prefer not to
be placed in one either; so actively challenging the antiquated
theories that have managed to spill over into
this day and age is surely one way
to keep things interesting.

My attire and general appearance is a style all it's own.

Makes me shudder to think that the way a shirt buttons up the front,
left or right...can pull the weight of judgement from society.

Lots of thoughts on this, but it'll have
to wait...as mah schedule is full of today.

Rope · 05-08-2011, 07:15 PM

Clothes don't make you a butch...plenty that defy that based on their own personal style (or lack of style <g>), or their gender bending wearing both male and female clothes, or however it works for them, etc. Not all butches want to wear ties or boxer briefs or whatever you might use as the barometer to measure "butchness".

In the leather community we can spot s/m folks---yeah, in this case stands for stand and model s/m rather than actual leather folk. Leather folks don't all own leather clothing and leather clothing certainly does not make you a leather community person or someone that understands what earning one's leathers means.

Rope--

LaneyDoll · 05-08-2011, 09:10 PM

I have never passed up a gift because of the gift wrap. If my S/O treats me well. they can certainly dress as they desire. Now, if they specifically ask me to shop for them/dress them, I will certainly do so. I have dated a few women who prefer that I do the shopping simply because I liked to do it and they would rather not.

As a femme, I have had plenty of times that I was judged because of my appearance. I would not, have not and refuse to do the same.

05-09-2011, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

I'd be very surprised if anyone in the bf community over on this side of the pond have said that butch is not a gender! People in mainstream lezzer-land would possibly say such a thing though.

Merlin · 05-09-2011, 04:41 AM

They have to me doc.

05-09-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

They have to me doc.

Really Merlin? I can't say I've ever heard that from any of the bf community I know here.

EnderD_503 · 05-09-2011, 11:21 AM

Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.

Legendryder · 05-09-2011, 11:34 AM

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

Bit · 05-09-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

How dismissive. I'm sorry that's happened to you.

In my experience over on this side of the pond, people have said such things--or the equivalent: that a femme cannot wear men's clothing without magically turning herself into a butch--because they have rigid ideas about the meaning of "butch" and "femme." Some people have been open to a discussion and to broadening that definition; some people have used it as a wall of defense to avoid talking about it, a way to categorize and dismiss me.

Mostly these days I don't run into such nonsense anymore. Hope it gets better for you, too.

Apocalipstic · 05-09-2011, 01:14 PM

People sometimes give way too much of their opinion! So sorry people tell you you should dress this way or that. It happened to me too in my younger days, now I just refuse to engage.

Do clothes make the Butch? no.

Do I love to be out with a well dressed Butch? Hell yes!

AtLast · 05-09-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.

Yup- an identity, an attitude... whatever one wants it to be for themselves!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendryder

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

I wear a mix of clothing- some men's. some women's- I agree, what fits and I feel good in, is the key. Also, I am with you about sloppiness- but, sure, when doing yardwork, house panting, etc., I wear my grungies. Don't care for the sloppy look on anyone- butch/trans/femme... hets... anyone! probably a bias of mine, but, grooming is something I do notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K?

We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all).

You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks.

Yeah!! Wear what you like and feel comfy in!

EnderD_503 · 05-09-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendryder

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I wear a mix of clothing- some men's. some women's- I agree, what fits and I feel good in, is the key. Also, I am with you about sloppiness- but, sure, when doing yardwork, house panting, etc., I wear my grungies. Don't care for the sloppy look on anyone- butch/trans/femme... hets... anyone! probably a bias of mine, but, grooming is something I do notice.

Alright, just wanna jump in because there seems to be a reoccuring "anti-'sloppy'" theme on these forums, lol. Seriously, I understand if you all don't like to dress a certain way, but why does it have to come down to commenting about how other's might choose to dress, even if it is "sloppy" in your books? Is a person in a pair of slacks and a polo automatically "better" than a person in torn up jeans and a sleeveless shirt? Also, there's a difference in grooming/hygiene and the clothing a person chooses to wear. Just because I have multiple holes in my pair of camos, or the bottoms of my jeans are shredded to shit, doesn't mean I'm unhygienic. Sheesh, people

From the mouths of the greats:

Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

It is an interesting question how far men would retain their relative rank if they were divested of their clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts. - Henry David Thoreau

He also has a great one from Walden where he goes on rant on how it's idiotic that a man is looked down upon if he walks into town with a hole in the knee of his pants, yet if he had a broken leg no one would care. Why does a hole in the knee of his pants speak of his character? It shouldn't.

If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. - Albert Einstein

In fact, that one just might be new sig material lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yeah!! Wear what you like and feel comfy in!

Exactly

To me, dress "neatly" if you want to dress that way. Dress in a suit every day of your life if you want. Dress in sweatpants every day if you want. Walk around in a brown paper bag for all I care, lol.

Cheers,

Ender, King of shabby clothing

Daywalker · 05-09-2011, 02:07 PM

I can be seen about the neighborhood wearing jammies
under mah long black jackets. No socks, slip on Zombie
shoes...and barely a rake thru mah mane.

I clean up good when I care to,
but the rest of the time it's all about my comfort.

Oh, and winter time I wear huge puffy gorilla
and talon slippers to the store.

So there.

05-09-2011, 02:11 PM

It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

Apocalipstic · 05-09-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incubus

It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

When I was little I insisted on a blue bedroom. Everyone was shocked and stunned.

Colors are just colors...seeems so silly!

05-08-2011, 05:13 PM	#1
Merlin Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Knight in shining armour. Relationship Status: Spoken for Join Date: May 2011 Location: England Posts: 250 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 87 Thanked 547 Times in 170 Posts Rep Power: 6763776	Clothes do not Maketh the butch .... Or do they ? How important is clothing to you ? __________________ https://youtu.be/IWvEXChflEE

05-08-2011, 05:18 PM	#2
amiyesiam Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she/they Relationship Status: single Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: pa Posts: 2,703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,488 Thanked 10,138 Times in 2,161 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	clothes do not make the femme or do they it matters to some it doesn't matter to some it is individual i am to busy worrying about being me to worry about what others think about me __________________ A year from now you will wish that you started today~Karen Lamb

05-08-2011, 05:28 PM	#3
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Butch is a gender no? The shell does not represent gender, that's just me __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

05-08-2011, 05:29 PM	#4
Merlin Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Knight in shining armour. Relationship Status: Spoken for Join Date: May 2011 Location: England Posts: 250 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 87 Thanked 547 Times in 170 Posts Rep Power: 6763776	People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way .. __________________ https://youtu.be/IWvEXChflEE

05-08-2011, 05:53 PM	#5
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,299 Times in 6,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K? We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all). You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-08-2011, 07:15 PM	#7
Rope Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Hy Relationship Status: polyamorous Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 304 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 79 Thanked 1,279 Times in 212 Posts Rep Power: 8577863	Clothes don't make you a butch...plenty that defy that based on their own personal style (or lack of style <g>), or their gender bending wearing both male and female clothes, or however it works for them, etc. Not all butches want to wear ties or boxer briefs or whatever you might use as the barometer to measure "butchness". In the leather community we can spot s/m folks---yeah, in this case stands for stand and model s/m rather than actual leather folk. Leather folks don't all own leather clothing and leather clothing certainly does not make you a leather community person or someone that understands what earning one's leathers means. Rope-- __________________ www.ButchFemmeSocials.com

05-08-2011, 09:10 PM	#8
LaneyDoll Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Girly girl femme Preferred Pronoun?: She; Ma'am; Miss ;) Relationship Status: Pitbull protected. Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 2,204 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,892 Thanked 7,689 Times in 1,610 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I have never passed up a gift because of the gift wrap. If my S/O treats me well. they can certainly dress as they desire. Now, if they specifically ask me to shop for them/dress them, I will certainly do so. I have dated a few women who prefer that I do the shopping simply because I liked to do it and they would rather not. As a femme, I have had plenty of times that I was judged because of my appearance. I would not, have not and refuse to do the same. __________________ There are beauties who stop traffic and then there are beauties who grow obsessively in the hearts of the susceptible.

05-09-2011, 04:41 AM	#10
Merlin Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Knight in shining armour. Relationship Status: Spoken for Join Date: May 2011 Location: England Posts: 250 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 87 Thanked 547 Times in 170 Posts Rep Power: 6763776	They have to me doc. __________________ https://youtu.be/IWvEXChflEE

05-09-2011, 11:21 AM	#12
EnderD_503 Member How Do You Identify?: Queer, trans guy, butch Preferred Pronoun?: Male pronouns Relationship Status: Relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,090 Thanked 3,907 Times in 1,032 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.

05-09-2011, 11:34 AM	#13
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270130	My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

05-09-2011, 01:14 PM	#15
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,383 Times in 2,840 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	People sometimes give way too much of their opinion! So sorry people tell you you should dress this way or that. It happened to me too in my younger days, now I just refuse to engage. Do clothes make the Butch? no. Do I love to be out with a well dressed Butch? Hell yes! __________________

05-09-2011, 02:07 PM	#18
Daywalker Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Hippy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: * Posts: 3,750 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,499 Thanked 11,917 Times in 2,700 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I can be seen about the neighborhood wearing jammies under mah long black jackets. No socks, slip on Zombie shoes...and barely a rake thru mah mane. I clean up good when I care to, but the rest of the time it's all about my comfort. Oh, and winter time I wear huge puffy gorilla and talon slippers to the store. So there. __________________ www.SirDaywalker.com

05-09-2011, 02:11 PM	#19
Daktari Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!