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[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Hawking writing religious texts now? How strange...

Now that he's disproved the existence of god maybe he will disprove the existence of bigfoot or the loch ness monster.

Hahahahahahahahaha

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

right.
but all they do is transfer the priests who sexually abuse parishoners.
they are not defrocked, are they? at least i know that in the past the
diocese would just move the offender from place to place with no warning
to the new place of what may come to pass.

it is EXACTLY these kinds of situations that make the GLBTQ community wary of religious organizations.

That is certainly been what was done in the past. There are new laws throughout the US now that hold a diocese and church leaders/administrators criminally liable for these acts as well as reporting requirements, especially in religious schools. There "should" be a difference now in terms of reporting and prosecution. Hope so, enough is enough! These steps should have been taken years ago.

[Toughy]

Y'all can go on about new laws and a new attitude from the Church in relation to pedophile priest all ya want.......

Truth is the US Church is still sending their 'suspected' pedophile priests to a little retreat up in Northern New Mexico just like they have for years and years. They slowly let them re-enter pastoral duties by letting them loose (alibet part time) in the parishes of NNM. After some time in prayer and fasting and redemption and part time pastoral duties, they are sent back to minister to flocks all over the US..........

NOT ONE DAMN THING HAS CHANGED. The Church pays hush money and continues on.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

That is certainly been what was done in the past. There are new laws throughout the US now that hold a diocese and church leaders/administrators criminally liable for these acts as well as reporting requirements, especially in religious schools. There "should" be a difference now in terms of reporting and prosecution. Hope so, enough is enough! These steps should have been taken years ago.

I went to Mater Dei H.S. in SoCal and watched Father Michael the Principal do atrocious things to students. My parents grounded me when I brought it up.

The day they arrested him years later? I framed the newpaper article and mailed it home.

IMO as long as priests are forced to live a celibate life void of all sexuality the problems are going to keep happening.

[Toughy]

IMO as long as priests are forced to live a celibate life void of all sexuality the problems are going to keep happening.

I love you so I will not go off like a rocket on you.......I'm not very patient today...............

Pedophilia has nothing to do with celibacy. Rape has nothing to do with celibacy. You cannot make those comparisons. It's like saying homosexuals are pedophiles.

Pedophilia is NOT about lack of sex or marriage. It is far more complicated. Most pedophiles were sexually abused as children.....and many of them abused by pedophile priests and pastors. It is a viscous circle that cannot be stopped by framing the argument around celibacy.

Celibacy and pedophilia are not in any way related.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I love you so I will not go off like a rocket on you.......I'm not very patient today...............

Pedophilia has nothing to do with celibacy. Rape has nothing to do with celibacy. You cannot make those comparisons. It's like saying homosexuals are pedophiles.

Pedophilia is NOT about lack of sex or marriage. It is far more complicated. Most pedophiles were sexually abused as children.....and many of them abused by pedophile priests and pastors. It is a viscous circle that cannot be stopped by framing the argument around celibacy.

Celibacy and pedophilia are not in any way related.

yeah, you're right and i didn't mean to couch it like that. sorry. can i have popcorn?

i DO think that asking adults to live their entire live as asexual beings is downright nuts though.

somewhere in my brain there is a connection to what happens with these priests and the way that the catholic church makes sex a shameful thing.
(masturbation will make you blind or grow hair on your palms were a few things nuns told us)

i am a recovering catholic and my name is adelita.

[Toughy]

adelita my child............<grin>

sex and pedophilia have NOTHING to do with each other........


yes it is entirely shameful that the monotheists have made sex shameful...........all of them have and continue to do so.......

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

adelita my child............<grin>

sex and pedophilia have NOTHING to do with each other........


yes it is entirely shameful that the monotheists have made sex shameful...........all of them have and continue to do so.......

yeah.
so next time you dance w/me would you mind wearing the set of priest frocks i bought on ebay?

and repeating that adelita my child part?

[dreadgeek]

Toughy:

That's how I read Hawking--and that's how I've read most of his other pronouncements on the existence of a god. No one can say that they know there is not a god. I don't know that there isn't one. But when I look around I don't see a need for a god. All the things that we normally attribute to requiring a god--even morality--turn out to not *require* a god. I think that's the point that Hawking is making.

Cheers
Aj

Originally Posted by Toughy

I have not read this new book. What I get from the one big quote I read and could not quickly find is this: There is no NEED for a creator diety for the universe to come into existence. What I read does not make a comment on the existence of a deity, but rather comments on the need of a deity.

I await further comment on this new book until I have read it. My understanding is the book is NOT about religion. Rather it is about how the universe came into existence. Context is everything and he certainly could have said a creator deity does not exist.

ps............I hate koolaid and I rarely if ever drink it.

[SuperFemme]

where i get hung up on the higher power thing is this:

having a terminal illness and receiving healing energy from others i have to say that it give me hope. i know that is has an impact on how i get through my next hospitalization or treatment.

maybe it is just energy and not a diety?

i cannot wrap my mind around a diety making people gravely ill and that there is some kind of vetting process when choosing who gets cancer and who gets to be an olympian swimmer?

i may have just confused myself again.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Y'all can go on about new laws and a new attitude from the Church in relation to pedophile priest all ya want.......

Truth is the US Church is still sending their 'suspected' pedophile priests to a little retreat up in Northern New Mexico just like they have for years and years. They slowly let them re-enter pastoral duties by letting them loose (alibet part time) in the parishes of NNM. After some time in prayer and fasting and redemption and part time pastoral duties, they are sent back to minister to flocks all over the US..........

NOT ONE DAMN THING HAS CHANGED. The Church pays hush money and continues on.

Then what is happening is that the church leaders are not following new laws in new Mexico and the orders that preside there. Although, I think the Catholic church stinks in all of this and I left it long ago, this is a gross over generalization and mistatement of facts.

There have been changes and hopefully, more will come. Here is one example- there are many more.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity...to-authorities

[SuperFemme]

Don't hate on CA's first medical marijuana commercial.
I'm sure the fed's arrested the actors after filming. j/k

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Then what is happening is that the church leaders are not following new laws in new Mexico and the orders that preside there. Although, I think the Catholic church stinks in all of this and I left it long ago, this is a gross over generalization and mistatement of facts.

There have been changes and hopefully, more will come. Here is one example- there are many more.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity...to-authorities

It's not just NM Church leaders. Priests from all over the US come to this retreat located in NM. Not all the priests who come to this retreat are pedophiles, but it is well known in NM that there are plenty of priests who are pedophiles sent there to be cured by prayer and confession and redemption.

The feel good story you linked, to me, is just that a feel good story. If the Pope actually did excommunicate pedophiles, the priesthood and his leadership would likely be decimated. Turning them over to legal authorities has not been a pattern of the Church. Settling cases out of court and paying money is the pattern that is still ongoing.

edited to add: the article also reinforces the idea that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked. It also leads one to believe that celibacy has some connection to pedophilia.

[Glenn]

Afghanistan's dirty little secret.
Joel Brinkley
Sunday August 29, 2010
http://sfgate.com.cgi-bin/article.cg...INF21F2Q9H.DTL
For centuries Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9-15 as lovers.

[Toughy]

The link does not work.

I did hear about this. My understanding is that this is common among certain tribes in Afghanistan.....particularly the Pashtun (sp) tribe. The current leader of Afghanistan is a guy named Karzi who is a Pashtun. His brother is a big ole opium drug dealer.

One of the comments I heard was that US soldiers could not in any way interfere with this custom. They have to have a blind eye towards obvious pedophilia. The awful thing is that once these boys become men, they can be killed if they participant in homosexual behaviors with other grown men. Same sex pedophilia is ok, but it is not ok for grown men to have same sex relationships.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I love you so I will not go off like a rocket on you.......I'm not very patient today...............

Pedophilia has nothing to do with celibacy. Rape has nothing to do with celibacy. You cannot make those comparisons. It's like saying homosexuals are pedophiles.

Pedophilia is NOT about lack of sex or marriage. It is far more complicated. Most pedophiles were sexually abused as children.....and many of them abused by pedophile priests and pastors. It is a viscous circle that cannot be stopped by framing the argument around celibacy.

Celibacy and pedophilia are not in any way related.

i can't figure out which one at the moment, but one of the documentaries made about the scandal featured a priest explaining how pedophilia helps to ensure future "vocations" in that a lot of the people who will volunteer for a job that requires "celibacy" likely would not if they didn't have disordered perceptions of sexuality, and that being abused as a child helps to create those disordered perceptions, so that an end to priestly pedophilia would mean far fewer priests!

so the i guess turning a blind eye to rape is prefereble to allowing priests to marry so we can take "squirrelly about sex" out of the job description*eyeroll*

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

There's the 3 cops in Pittsburgh. We recently had some guy get in to a shootout with the Oakland PD while on his way to attack the Tides Foundation in SF. I'm sure that there are plenty more.

It's a lot, but expected. The nutters come out of the woodwork every time a Democrat moves in to the White House, and now that the man there isn't white, it's much worse than usual. What pisses me off is that the media and the authorities refuse to call these people terrorists.

seeing the Oakland Pride thread reminds me there were shootings at SF Pride...so that puts as at an average of one individual per month (that we hear of) flipping out violently in the midst of innocent bystanders.

my theory is some kind of evolutionary overpopulation safety valve- the same kind of thing that causes animals to eat their young when the habitat can't afford increased numbers

[Glenn]

September 4, 2010
www.thenational.ae
Sakineth Mohammad Ashtiana, an Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery has also been sentenced to 99 lashes for a photo of her without a head scarf. The Progressive American Iranian Committee www.iranian-american.com said there are 12 women currently on death row sentenced to be stoned to death for adultery.

[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

September 4, 2010
www.thenational.ae
Sakineth Mohammad Ashtiana, an Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery has also been sentenced to 99 lashes for a photo of her without a head scarf. The Progressive American Iranian Committee www.iranian-american.com said there are 12 women currently on death row sentenced to be stoned to death for adultery.

while I have learned to interrogate the criticisms of the West with respect to other cultural practices, this is one practice that I find particularly horrific and without excuse. It sled me completely close off. Yet, the thought of invading this country for its alleged WMDs does not light me up either. Ugh.

[Zimmeh]

This caught my attention lastnight. A church in Gainesville, FL are talking of burning the Koran on 9-11. Why would a church burn a religious book?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpps/new...730-gc_8937270

Not sure what you all think of this, but to me, it is a dumb move.

Zimmy