Gulf Oil Slick

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Jet

who is we?

Maybe people who drive cars with bad gas mileage and use tons of oil by products then whine about the environment and gas prices?

The oil has got to come from somewhere if we are going to continue to use it at the rates we are.

[Spirit Dancer]

Gulf Fishing: Oil Spill To Shut Down 19 Percent Of Area, More Than Double Original Closure
MELISSA NELSON | 05/18/10 05:23 PM |


PENSACOLA BEACH, Fla. — The sign outside the Pensacola Beach marina says "We're Still Fishing," but that's not really true.

The federal government announced Tuesday it is nearly tripling the size of an area in the Gulf of Mexico that's closed to fishing because of a massive oil spill off the coast of Louisiana.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said it was closing nearly 46,000 square miles, or about 19 percent of federal waters, beginning at 6 p.m.

That's up from the 7 percent of the Gulf that's been closed to fishing boats since shortly after an offshore oil rig exploded April 20, killing 11 workers. Rig operator BP PLC estimates that the blown-out well has leaked more than 5 million gallons.

The spill has scared off charter fishing customers at the marina here, even though the water they'd normally trawl is still open to fishing. The 30 boats were almost all tied to their slips Tuesday and Jerry Andrews, the captain of the Entertainer, had the dock to himself.

"Usually you'd see 15 or 20 people walking up and down out here asking about the fishing. Three-fourths of these slips would be empty," said Andrews, a Pensacola native who has been fishing here for 34 years.

The expanded ban covers an area that starts near the Louisiana coast and moves southeast in a diagonal line. From Mississippi to Pensacola, the ban starts about 30 miles offshore. It begins moving away from shore at the Florida-Alabama border. At its eastern end south of Apalachicola, about the midpoint of the Florida Panhandle, the ban starts about 160 miles offshore.

Andrews said that before the spill he was getting between 30 and 40 calls and e-mails a day asking about chartering his boat and his customers were catching their full quotas of vermilion snapper, triggerfish, amberjack and grouper.

But in the month since the spill, he gets hired for one or two trips a week, tops, even though he can still go out the 20 miles he normally travels. Most of his customers, who come from Alabama and Georgia, are now going to the Carolinas.

He said BP, as part of its plan to help coastal businesses harmed by the spill, has paid him $5,000 and the oil giant has promised further help, but he doesn't know when that's coming.

To Harlon Pearce, chairman of the Louisiana Seafood Promotion and Marketing Board, the latest closure is as much a public relations problem as an impediment to business. He stressed that seafood from the areas not closed is still available and safe to eat. Roughly 60 percent of the state's oyster production areas were still open, Pearce said, and he expected the expanded federal closure to affect fishermen working off the Alabama and Mississippi coasts more than those from Louisiana.

Then there was Florida. Fifty miles to the east of Pensacola, a sign outside the Panhandle tourist hub of Destin welcomes visitors to "The World's Luckiest Fishing Village." Generations of families have gone on fishing excursions while vacationing along the white sandy beaches. The boats return each evening and display the largest snapper, grouper or other fish from the day's catch for passers-by to photograph and admire.

David Krebs, who owns a local seafood market, said the town is tired and frustrated by the continued restrictions and lack of information about the spill.

Local fishermen are catching plenty of fish in non-restricted areas closer to shore, the weather is great, the fish are healthy and the beaches are oil-free, Krebs said.

But the perception that oil has already hit and seafood is unsafe has devastated the tourist-driven economy, he said.

"This is just more fear factor and hype," he said, "but if people are afraid to come on vacation here now and there was already this big wonderment about the economy anyway then the perception is everything."




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_580302.html

[Spirit Dancer]

Yet another snafu with the repair out in the gulf.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/...gulf_oil_spill


By GREG BLUESTEIN and BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press Writers Greg Bluestein And Brian Skoloff, Associated Press Writers – 58 mins ago
PORT FOURCHON, La. – As the crude crept closer to Florida, the risky effort to contain the nation's worst oil spill hit a snag Wednesday when a diamond-edged saw became stuck in a thick pipe on a blown-out well at the bottom of the Gulf.

Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen said the goal was to free the saw and finish the cut later in the day. This is the latest attempt to contain — not plug — the gusher. The best chance at stopping the leak is a relief well, which is at least two months from completion.

"I don't think the issue is whether or not we can make the second cut. It's about how fine we can make it, how smooth we can make it," Allen said.

If the cut is not as smooth as engineers would like, they would be forced to put a looser fitting cap on top of the oil spewing out. This cut-and-cap effort could temporarily increase the flow of oil by as much as 20 percent, though Allen said officials wouldn't know whether that had happened until the cut could be completed.

Engineers may have to bring in a second saw awaiting on a boat, but it was not immediately clear how long that could delay the operation. Live video of the saw showed oil spitting out of the new cut, and crews were shooting chemicals to try to disperse the crude. The cap could be placed over the spill as early as Wednesday.

The effort underwater was going on as oil drifted close to the Florida Panhandle's white sand beaches for the first time and investors ran from BP's stock for a second day, reacting to the company's weekend failure to plug the leak by shooting mud and cement into the well, known as the top kill.

The Justice Department also has announced it started criminal and civil probes into the spill, although the department did not name specific targets for prosecution.

Shares in British-based BP PLC were down 3 percent Wednesday morning in London trading after a 13 percent fall the day before. BP has lost $75 billion in market value since the spill started with an April 20 oil rig explosion and analysts expect damage claims to total billions more.

In Florida, oil was about seven miles south of Pensacola beach, Allen said.

Thunderstorms were making it difficult to track the slick, Escambia County emergency director John Dosh said, and officials hoped the weather would clear so they could get an aerial view.

"We are looking at a Wednesday to Friday shoreline impact, but there is a line of uncertainty that depends on the wave action and the winds," Dosh said.

"Today we are in a monitoring mode."

[NJFemmie]

I don't know about other areas, but around here, Exxon gas prices are the HIGHEST around. Know why? Because those that fueled up at Exxon paid for their oil spill in Alaska. In fact, Exxon was sued billions of dollars, but court settled for maybe 513M. That was barely the cost to "clean up". Very few Alaskans received monetary damages as promised (if any, honestly) - and they are still suffering the effects of that disaster. They've ushered some species of animals into extinction.

It would be nice to think that the government will fine BP up their ass for this, but reality is, they will find a way to get out of it. Sure looks good on paper, but I doubt they will pay a fraction of what they should for this - and like someone said - it will trickle down to the consumer.

What I can't believe is, this is far bigger than Exxon Valdez now, yet, BP IS STILL CALLING THE SHOTS. How does that happen?

[Andrew, Jr.]

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?

Then the fisherman, their families/crews, are moving to new fishing grounds off Texas. It seems that BP doesn't want to do anything to stop the flow of oil, at least that is the perception I am receiving from all of BP and BP's management.

Where is President Obama in this? He could have been there over the Memorial Day Holiday excusing him from his responsibilities at The Naval Academy and Arlington Cemetary whereby Vice President Biden gave the speeches. I guess maybe July 4th President Obama will pick up the pace. I am so disappointed in him.

I guess we all will be soon swimming in pools instead of oceans, bays, lakes, and so on. We are just killing the planet.

[Rockinonahigh]

So the head of bp wants his life back,how rich is that?What about the people that this oil spill is efeting??This mess is ruining the lives of anyone who makes a liveing on the gulf or lives there..heck now ppl are getting sick from the fumes or whatever is doing it.All we have been told is mostly lies about this issue from the beganing,first we didnt have a leak them we have the leak from hell,wich is contenueing and has no end in sight.BP has been grossly neglegent(sp??) in all of this and will contenue to cover there ass till hell freezes over.On the news I herd that the ppl who have been hired have to sign a gag order to work for them in the clean up,one of the wives was on cnn,she said to hell with BP if she had to be the one to tell the world what they had to do to work she would..good for her.
WE all know he gulf is ruined and will be for generations to come,BP could give a shit,I personaly feel the gov should hold BP in recevership and put the hammer down on them to fix this mess they created.Yes,im pissed,they are runing my state,its people,our water ways and fisheries.Dam BP to efin hell for what they have done and will contenue to do unless our goverment dose something.Obama get off your ass and quit makeing photo shoots for publicity..step on BP's butt now before they drop the ball again and compleatly.
Dam that felt good to get off my chest.Please what ever powers that be save our gulf cause its turning into a cauldron of oil.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

So the head of bp wants his life back,how rich is that?What about the people that this oil spill is efeting??This mess is ruining the lives of anyone who makes a liveing on the gulf or lives there..heck now ppl are getting sick from the fumes or whatever is doing it.All we have been told is mostly lies about this issue from the beganing,first we didnt have a leak them we have the leak from hell,wich is contenueing and has no end in sight.BP has been grossly neglegent(sp??) in all of this and will contenue to cover there ass till hell freezes over.On the news I herd that the ppl who have been hired have to sign a gag order to work for them in the clean up,one of the wives was on cnn,she said to hell with BP if she had to be the one to tell the world what they had to do to work she would..good for her.
WE all know he gulf is ruined and will be for generations to come,BP could give a shit,I personaly feel the gov should hold BP in recevership and put the hammer down on them to fix this mess they created.Yes,im pissed,they are runing my state,its people,our water ways and fisheries.Dam BP to efin hell for what they have done and will contenue to do unless our goverment dose something.Obama get off your ass and quit makeing photo shoots for publicity..step on BP's butt now before they drop the ball again and compleatly.
Dam that felt good to get off my chest.Please what ever powers that be save our gulf cause its turning into a cauldron of oil.

I know, that guy is one of the most arrogant SOBs on earth! Hey, billionaire mentality at its finest!

Why anyone would think that huge oil companies give a flying fuck about shorelines, birds, wetlands, estuaries, the fishing industry, etc. is beyond me.

Our government doesn't have the knowledge or skills, or equipment to deal with this. We are subject to the whims of these assholes. THAT is what needs to change. Oil drilling needs to be part of the government, not private industry. And the chances of this happening are not good.

The only thing the federal government can do is sue and make criminal charges. As far as having the experts, equipment and know-how to plug that pipe, forget it.

Now, cleaning-up and making certain BP is liable to all the folks that are loosing their livelihoods, that is a different matter. And I hope to hell they are not just tossed to the wind like in Valdez and the Katrina catastrophe (which was not an act of God, the storm did not hit N.O., the damn levies broke that were built by the Army Corp).

I feel your frustration and I am sickened by this, but, it is a wake-up call about deep water oil drilling. Most of the technology being used to try and stop that leak have never been tested under these conditions by anyone (governmental or private industry). So, why the hell did BP and all the other oil companies get permission to build oil rigs out there?

Take a look at the corruption within this entire industry and government entities for the answers.

I'd love to see BP officials taken into custody for criminal charges that would actually result in prision time... but not until the damn leak is contained. We are at their mercy right now. And the Gulf region has been changed forever. There are types of fish that are still not back in the waterways of Valdez.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

By the way, those chemicals being used to disperse the oil? The formulas and ingredients are protected, so we have no way of knowing what is in them. The companies refuse to divulge the information.

The thing is, nature *may* already have a solution. See below:

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Bet Dick Cheny knows what they are and what is in them! Probably will get a kick-back off them.

The whole idea that someting that is developed to break down sweet crude could possibly not be harmful is just nuts! And I am sure that future generations will be posting on-line about birth defects, cancers, etc. resulting from these chemicals getting into the food-chain.

And we worry about foreign terroists destroying us!

There are bacteria that have evolved--without interference from humans--the ability to break down oil naturally. These microbes exist *now*. They are soil bacteria but anywhere there are large collections of oil it is possible to find them in the soil. Now, admittedly, it would be ideal if nature had thought to make oil-eating bacteria that lived in salt water but since there are bacteria that DO live in salt-water (bacteria live everywhere) and since bacteria, over a billion years ago, hit on the very, very cool trick of simply trading genes across different species (as if that word means a lot to bacteria) it seems to me to be a relatively trivial exercise to introduce the oil-eating bacteria to some salt-water dwelling bacteria and, in a remarkably short amount of time* we'd have a salt-water dwelling bacteria that eats oil. Introduce them to the spill and let the feasting begin.

Now, I know that some folks are going to say "hold on, wouldn't this be just as dangerous" to which I say "not necessarily", here's why.

1) As far as introducing the gene although it would be more efficient to simply find the gene(s) for salt-water dwelling and insert it into a colony of oil-eating bacteria, we probably don't have to do that. Nature could probably get there *almost* as fast because of the really fast bacterial generation. (The average bacterial species will go through in a year the same number of generations as there have been homo sapiens generations--roughly 20,000 or so)

2) If we're *really* worried about it, then we could engineer in a 'kill-switch'. Give them N amount of time to live after which cell division stops or something else which causes the bacteria to become inert.

This isn't science fiction, folks. The bacteria already exist and nature hit upon the idea first. The genetic engineering (if any) that might be necessary is *well* within what we know how to do and know how to do safely (as opposed to, say, deep water oil drilling). It's a non-toxic solution. The byproducts are methanol (alcohol), water and carbon dioxide. The CO_2 would be in the ocean where it *doesn't* contribute to global warming (and tends to get locked up as a calcium carbonate in the shells of mollusks). This is a win-win solution that is viable now.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?

Then the fisherman, their families/crews, are moving to new fishing grounds off Texas. It seems that BP doesn't want to do anything to stop the flow of oil, at least that is the perception I am receiving from all of BP and BP's management.

Where is President Obama in this? He could have been there over the Memorial Day Holiday excusing him from his responsibilities at The Naval Academy and Arlington Cemetary whereby Vice President Biden gave the speeches. I guess maybe July 4th President Obama will pick up the pace. I am so disappointed in him.

I guess we all will be soon swimming in pools instead of oceans, bays, lakes, and so on. We are just killing the planet.

I'm curious, outside of photo-ops what precisely do you expect the President to do here? I'm not making excuses but OTHER than a photo op what would he bring to the table? This is outside of his subject-matter expertise and he *has* sent, for example, Steven Chu down to the Gulf because Dr. Chu is a physicist and has better understanding about this subject matter than does the President.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Jet

who is we?

If you drive a car or use plastics then it includes you. The only people on the planet who get an exemption on THIS (and only on this) are those few populations still living a hunting-gathering-fishing lifestyle. Everyone else, pretty much, uses petroleum-based products in some form or another.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

The thing is, nature *may* already have a solution. See below:



There are bacteria that have evolved--without interference from humans--the ability to break down oil naturally. These microbes exist *now*. They are soil bacteria but anywhere there are large collections of oil it is possible to find them in the soil. Now, admittedly, it would be ideal if nature had thought to make oil-eating bacteria that lived in salt water but since there are bacteria that DO live in salt-water (bacteria live everywhere) and since bacteria, over a billion years ago, hit on the very, very cool trick of simply trading genes across different species (as if that word means a lot to bacteria) it seems to me to be a relatively trivial exercise to introduce the oil-eating bacteria to some salt-water dwelling bacteria and, in a remarkably short amount of time* we'd have a salt-water dwelling bacteria that eats oil. Introduce them to the spill and let the feasting begin.

Now, I know that some folks are going to say "hold on, wouldn't this be just as dangerous" to which I say "not necessarily", here's why.

1) As far as introducing the gene although it would be more efficient to simply find the gene(s) for salt-water dwelling and insert it into a colony of oil-eating bacteria, we probably don't have to do that. Nature could probably get there *almost* as fast because of the really fast bacterial generation. (The average bacterial species will go through in a year the same number of generations as there have been homo sapiens generations--roughly 20,000 or so)

2) If we're *really* worried about it, then we could engineer in a 'kill-switch'. Give them N amount of time to live after which cell division stops or something else which causes the bacteria to become inert.

This isn't science fiction, folks. The bacteria already exist and nature hit upon the idea first. The genetic engineering (if any) that might be necessary is *well* within what we know how to do and know how to do safely (as opposed to, say, deep water oil drilling). It's a non-toxic solution. The byproducts are methanol (alcohol), water and carbon dioxide. The CO_2 would be in the ocean where it *doesn't* contribute to global warming (and tends to get locked up as a calcium carbonate in the shells of mollusks). This is a win-win solution that is viable now.

An example of how science can kick butt! Now, I ask, is there the funding for the scientists that can make headway here? We don't seem to pump $ into our educational and research arenas like we do into oil production!!

And, last night after watching stuff on TV about the spill, I opened a box of cereal. As I was pulling apart the plastic-based pouch the cereal is in, I thought.... Hummmm, petroleum based product.... I opened up some other cabinets in the kitchen and looked in the fridge... plastic containers, kitchen appliances with plastic parts, plastic handles on some of my cooking ware pots... And the best slap in my face are all the plastic parts involved in all of the solar products I have installed!

It just isn't a matter of conserving gas and oil in our vehicles..... or switching to hybrids and electric cars and trucks. Ummm... which have a shit-ton of petroleum-based plastics in them!

Oh, and then there are the plastic recycling bins .....

And all of these products can be manufactured green via our tech know-how, but costs prevent our doing so. Now, where the hell are our priorities. That's right, buying cheap products from Asia made by people treated like shit and paid shit!

Whenever I get on my personal eco high horse, I take a look around my home and try to figure out how I can actually change some things in my little world. Not easy at all, given what drives our economy in a global sense. When I think about a future remodel of my kitchen and bathroom, I have found recycled glass counter tops, cabinets made without harmful chemicals and a garbage disposal system that is actually a composter, toilets that are waterless and composting and made from new less harmful plastics, tankless water heaters, energy-star washer & dryers, etc. The costs involved are about 50% higher than the usual appliances. So, my saving-up for these projects has to be increased. Also, as appliances break (i.e., washer & dryer, water heater), I can replace them with more eco-friendly ones prior to the whole remodel job. When I insulated my home, I used eco-friendly material and guess what? It actually was less expensive!

In the last 2 years, I have cut my electric and gas bill by over 20% with very simple changes. I don’t need a scalding shower and the degree water needs to be for sanitizing dishes is not that high!

Rebate and loan programs are available to help cut costs with these kinds of things. it’s the thinking part that takes work in making changes. And we need to fund the science that develops alternatives.

[Toughy]

BP IS STILL CALLING THE SHOTS. How does that happen?

I see two parts to this question.

First concerning stopping the hemorrhage of oil and gas: The reason BP is calling the shots is they have the technology, expertise and equipment. In other words they have the capability and capacity, along with Haliburton and TransOcean. They just haven't done this at 5,000ft....and are failing miserably with 31 yr old technology that did not work in 1979 when this happened in the Gulf and that was in about 200ft of water. That hemmorage lasted 9 months until the relief well was completed. That capability and capacity does not exist within the state and federal governments.

Second concerning mitigating the environmental damage. BP should not be calling the shots. The US government should be in charge of that. Unfortunately........BP is calling the shots. I am truly pissed Obama didn't step up and declare a national emergency and take over this aspect. This should be a FEMA response.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I see two parts to this question.

First concerning stopping the hemorrhage of oil and gas: The reason BP is calling the shots is they have the technology, expertise and equipment. In other words they have the capability and capacity, along with Haliburton and TransOcean. They just haven't done this at 5,000ft....and are failing miserably with 31 yr old technology that did not work in 1979 when this happened in the Gulf and that was in about 200ft of water. That hemmorage lasted 9 months until the relief well was completed. That capability and capacity does not exist within the state and federal governments.

Second concerning mitigating the environmental damage. BP should not be calling the shots. The US government should be in charge of that. Unfortunately........BP is calling the shots. I am truly pissed Obama didn't step up and declare a national emergency and take over this aspect. This should be a FEMA response.

Good points.

Even though I would love some fantastical mega-boss in charge of this whole mess, it isn't possible.

BP (espeially the CEO) makes me sick. However, this just isn't a single-entity situation in terms of regulation and responsibility.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?

Maybe if he can restore the 11 lives, already lost...... Then he can have his back.,...
This was negligent homicide.

[Daryn]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I'd love to see BP officials taken into custody for criminal charges that would actually result in prision time... but not until the damn leak is contained. We are at their mercy right now. And the Gulf region has been changed forever. There are types of fish that are still not back in the waterways of Valdez.

One could make the argument for negligent homocide charges for the lives of the 11 workers that were lost in this. Who would get tagged for those charges would be an interesting legal debate... but it's not out of the realm of legal possibility to prosecute on those grounds....

************************************************** *
I am not a lawyer but I play the devil's advocate from time to time

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

An example of how science can kick butt! Now, I ask, is there the funding for the scientists that can make headway here? We don't seem to pump $ into our educational and research arenas like we do into oil production!!

A

This is why I am concerned for the direction our country is taking. We really *could* have a crash program along the lines of Apollo to get us largely off oil. SciAm about 2 years ago, devoted most of an issue to a plan to have the US off fossil fuels for heating and electricity generation in twenty years! Off it *entirely* and the beauty of this plan is that it didn't require building any new nukes just a combination of wind, solar and geothermal along with underground transmission lines (we actually lose quite a bit of power using overhead transmissions lines). We could realistically be off of fossil fuels for private transportation within that time frame and, quite honestly, if folks were willing to slow their pace of travel a bit we could largely eliminate jet aircraft and use dirigibles for long-distance air travel. Yes, it would take longer but it would be ecologically more sustainable. With maglev trains (already existing) we could have transcontinental rail travel that would also be far more ecologically sustainable and all of this is technology that we have in hand *now*.

Our problem isn't one of basic science--there are some longer term problems that ARE basic science problems but how to get our fossil fuel use down quite a bit isn't one of them--rather it's a matter of political will. There is just no will to actually *do* the things that we need to do and, unfortunately, we as a culture are so entirely in thrall to this idea that if we just wait long enough the market will take care of it that we can't actually do anything. The market isn't going to take care of this one though.

Cheers
Aj

[Andrew, Jr.]

Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.

[Miss Scarlett]

Now I've got 3 oil companies that will never see my money - BP, Exxon and Citgo...

[socialjustice_fsu]

I live in Pensacola, Florida. As I type this the first oil sheen is about 7 miles off-shore. The city is somber. I can assure you that MANY local folks have stepped up to the plate and are volunteering to secure booms and beginning to set up emergency treatment facilites for the injured marine life. I never thought I would see this. Maybe I have been one of the millions that have become complacent about how we are butchering our environment. Now I am about to see the results. I have read the posts about BP, the President, and so on. Yes, there should be accountibility but at this time I am asking that you simply hold our precious coast close to your hearts. It will never be the same here again.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.

Obama is not the first President to not be at the Tomb on Memorial Day. Bush jr sent Cheney a couple of time so he could go to his ranch. It's not that big of a deal to me and I am a veteran.

-----------

I keep thinking about Jimmy Carter and solar panels on the roof of the White House and Carter's call for 20% of our energy coming from non-fossil fuels (I think he actually specified solar) by the year 2000.............then Reagan was elected and the solar panels came down and Carter's energy policies were dumped.

I remember those gas station lines around the block and people getting shot and killed in those lines.

-----------edited t o add: yeah for Tesla Motors. They are going to make their electric Roadster in the now closed NUMMI plant in Fremont......batteries are being made in the bat area also...........