Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls

[Kobi]

I saw this quote in another thread. When it started with I love butch girls, I was cautiously optimistic of its contents. By the time I finished I was both amused and annoyed.


"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

-Tristan Taormino


This is why it was annoying to me. I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same or similar thoughts.

1. The word "girl" to me indicates a prepubescent female. To me, post puberty, "girls" become women. To refer to grown people as "girls" to me seems disrespectful and almost infantilizing. It might just be a pet peeve of mine.

2. While Tristan is entitled to her version of what a "butch girl" is. I would have preferred if she worded it as her opinion or preference or what gets her blood hot rather than using sweeping generalizations and stereotypical examples lumped into "butch girls". "Butch" is a very large category of very diverse people, appearances, presentations, genders, etc.

3. This made me chuckle - "Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives". We have Tristan. Regardless of how we now identify, we are female either by birth or by choice. We have your body. We have explored your body. We know your body. We know how to play your body much like a musician plays an instrument. We know how to make many different kinds of music with that body to bring you the different pleasure you might desire. Why does her quote make it seem like some miracle or strange twist of fate?

4. This confused me - "the girls who are a different gender". I admit, I still have trouble with the sex/gender thing. But is this even logical? Can you be a girl of a different gender? Arent you a "girl/female" or gendered in a way more representative of who you are using whatever term you choose to use?

So, your thoughts?

[Tawse]

For me the term 'girl' is yicky for butches or other masculine minded persons.. Could just be that the more masculine minded friends of mine all cringe when "girl" is used to refer to them.

As for the generalization - if we sterilize and PC everything - then it loses it's flow IMO. I don't take her to be defining me, I take her to be defining what she encompasses as butch. I get her point. If it doesn't apply to me, I move along. I don't expect the world to use PC lingo all the time. This may make me the rebel, and I'm ok with that. I don't want all of my literature to read like a legal document.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Tawse

For me the term 'girl' is yicky for butches or other masculine minded persons.. Could just be that the more masculine minded friends of mine all cringe when "girl" is used to refer to them.

As for the generalization - if we sterilize and PC everything - then it loses it's flow IMO. I don't take her to be defining me, I take her to be defining what she encompasses as butch. I get her point. If it doesn't apply to me, I move along. I don't expect the world to use PC lingo all the time. This may make me the rebel, and I'm ok with that. I don't want all of my literature to read like a legal document.

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I loved her wording, for me it described how it feels to have the visual, sexual, physical effect I have and have had towards a girl who's opposite of me. Also I can identify with the gender since my gender is not what was imposed at birth. When I read the word girl in her quote above I can close my eyes and visualize my first girl kiss to the first time I was touched by a girl who wore clothes only the boys wore. I have more but typing on this iPhone is a pain in the booty!

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I saw this quote in another thread. When it started with I love butch girls, I was cautiously optimistic of its contents. By the time I finished I was both amused and annoyed.


"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

-Tristan Taormino


This is why it was annoying to me. I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same or similar thoughts.

1. The word "girl" to me indicates a prepubescent female. To me, post puberty, "girls" become women. To refer to grown people as "girls" to me seems disrespectful and almost infantilizing. It might just be a pet peeve of mine.

2. While Tristan is entitled to her version of what a "butch girl" is. I would have preferred if she worded it as her opinion or preference or what gets her blood hot rather than using sweeping generalizations and stereotypical examples lumped into "butch girls". "Butch" is a very large category of very diverse people, appearances, presentations, genders, etc.

3. This made me chuckle - "Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives". We have Tristan. Regardless of how we now identify, we are female either by birth or by choice. We have your body. We have explored your body. We know your body. We know how to play your body much like a musician plays an instrument. We know how to make many different kinds of music with that body to bring you the different pleasure you might desire. Why does her quote make it seem like some miracle or strange twist of fate?

4. This confused me - "the girls who are a different gender". I admit, I still have trouble with the sex/gender thing. But is this even logical? Can you be a girl of a different gender? Arent you a "girl/female" or gendered in a way more representative of who you are using whatever term you choose to use?

So, your thoughts?

The term "girl" has a lot of different shades of meaning depending on the context of the speaker. I would like to know how old the speaker is and where she is in the country

I am totally a girl. Mr. Jenny can also be heard to refer to herself as a girl. I am femme, she is butch, we are both over 40, we are in Southest Texas.

If she would have have started out with "The girls I love are the kind I call 'butch girls'" instead of "i love butch girls" i think every objection Kobi has here would be nullified. The only problem is that she is not all the way in her "me" space

i do kind of love the "live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to" line

[Tawse]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here. I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general (and can grate on all identities) whereas when referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

completely agree! however among my friendship group, I see a large portion of "as long as it's me or mine calling me a girl I'm ok with it".

So either way... I act according to whatever the person wants to be called.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Tawse

completely agree! however among my friendship group, I see a large portion of "as long as it's me or mine calling me a girl I'm ok with it".

So either way... I act according to whatever the person wants to be called.

I'm not referring to any of us who use the term *girl* in an affectionate or personal way b/w lovers and/or friends. Of course, whatever terms float your boat b/w you and your SO or peer group is cool. I am talking about the overuse and misapplication of the term *girl* by society at large when referring to women.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

The term "girl" has a lot of different shades of meaning depending on the context of the speaker. I would like to know how old the speaker is and where she is in the country

I am totally a girl. Mr. Jenny can also be heard to refer to herself as a girl. I am femme, she is butch, we are both over 40, we are in Southest Texas.

If she would have have started out with "The girls I love are the kind I call 'butch girls'" instead of "i love butch girls" i think every objection Kobi has here would be nullified. The only problem is that she is not all the way in her "me" space

i do kind of love the "live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to" line

Tristan Taormino (born May 9, 1971) is a feminist author, columnist, sex educator, activist, editor, speaker, and pornographic film director (she also appeared in three films, two of which she directed, 1999–2000).

She teaches sex and relationship workshops around the world and lectures at top colleges and universities including Princeton, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, University of Toronto, Wesleyan, Vassar, University of Oregon, Swarthmore, and New York University, where she speaks on gay and lesbian issues, sexuality and gender, and feminism.

Taormino stated in an online interview, "I identify strongly as queer and as a dyke, because, as I have said before, it's not just about who I fuck and love, being queer is also about my politics, my culture, my community, and the way I see the world. People want to call me bisexual or pansexual or whatever, but I believe in people's power to self-identity."

In addition, "she describes herself as 'equal opportunity.' She doesn't like the word 'bisexual' -- it's too polarizing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Taormino


Just a brief synopsis of who this is.

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm not referring to any of us who use the term *girl* in an affectionate or personal way b/w lovers and/or friends. Of course, whatever terms float your boat b/w you and your SO or peer group is cool. I am talking about the overuse and misapplication of the term *girl* by society at large when referring to women.

I completely agree HowSoonIsNow. I love that my Butch calls me her girl, or babygirl. When she says it, it doesn't feel like it is a way to refer to me as less than her, or childlike. It is said with love, and it makes me feel good.

But, I bristle when I hear it used in the manner that you describe. Society has a way of continuing to demean women by using words in a way that makes them sound lesser than men. Being the blunt person that I am, frequently puts me in the position of politely correcting people when they use "girl" in the demeaning way, and patiently explaining why it is not appropriate. I think most people are not even aware that they are doing it, because it is still so engrained in our culture when referring to women.

That's why the universe created people like us, who continue to coax others to evolve(whether they want to or not).

[skeeter_01]

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

[stonewalldog]

I took the "girl" word as playful myself. The hair part reminds me to go get a trim. It's getting a bit shaggy. Otherwise, I thought it was great!

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Tristan Taormino (born May 9, 1971) is a feminist author, columnist, sex educator, activist, editor, speaker, and pornographic film director (she also appeared in three films, two of which she directed, 1999–2000).

She teaches sex and relationship workshops around the world and lectures at top colleges and universities including Princeton, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, University of Toronto, Wesleyan, Vassar, University of Oregon, Swarthmore, and New York University, where she speaks on gay and lesbian issues, sexuality and gender, and feminism.

Taormino stated in an online interview, "I identify strongly as queer and as a dyke, because, as I have said before, it's not just about who I fuck and love, being queer is also about my politics, my culture, my community, and the way I see the world. People want to call me bisexual or pansexual or whatever, but I believe in people's power to self-identity."

In addition, "she describes herself as 'equal opportunity.' She doesn't like the word 'bisexual' -- it's too polarizing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Taormino


Just a brief synopsis of who this is.

LOL

I googled her, but I am at work, so....

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by skeeter_01

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

I should have done a little more research myself LOL.

This quote is from an article she wrote for the Village Voice back in 1999 entitled: Of Butches, Kings, and Masculinity.

The exact quote is the first paragraph of the article and was cleaned up a bit.

" I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger. Girls who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives. Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard. It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

Reading the paragraph within the context helps a lot. LOL. I can be such a freakin doofus.

The entire article is here: http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...d-masculinity/

[~ocean]

the part that got my attention is u know how to play a womans body like an isntrument >>> hmm << wants to be a drum .. bang me baby ~ lol ?? j/k .. maybe not..

[Tawse]

Might I say... Tristan writes some very hot stuff... very... she's one of the top three on my list (along with Patrick Califia and Laura Antoniou)

[thedivahrrrself]

From a language perspective, I can see why she chose the word "girl". I don't think she would ever call a butch person a "girl", but in her writing, she chose the word that most contrasted with butch. Butch: tough, masculine, hard. Girl: sweet, feminine, soft. I think it was an creative artistic choice. I like the quote, though I can understand why you might object to it. I, however, think it's beautifully written. (And I don't think of butches as "girls". But I doubt the author does either.)

[The_Lady_Snow]

I interpreted it as art via words, it resonates with each word you can literally feel it with her words and it can also conjure up feelings for those of us who have had the same exact feelings.

This: " Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard"

As a young dyke I remember those moments of excitement, fear, pulsing areas, the tightness that came with having an epiphany that that cock slinging girl was going to open up a world of unexhibited sexual escapades, it's like a tall glass of ice cold water on as hot as hell day, it's only satisfies your thirst for a second before the temperature rises again.

That's why it's art in my opinion because it's a different experience for every individual.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I interpreted it as art via words, it resonates with each word you can literally feel it with her words and it can also conjure up feelings for those of us who have had the same exact feelings.

This: " Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard"

As a young dyke I remember those moments of excitement, fear, pulsing areas, the tightness that came with having an epiphany that that cock slinging girl was going to open up a world of unexhibited sexual escapades, it's like a tall glass of ice cold water on as hot as hell day, it's only satisfies your thirst for a second before the temperature rises again.
That's why it's art in my opinion because it's a different experience for every individual.

is it hot in here or what!!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm more offended when I see folks online/real time so easily use bitch when referring to Femmes/Women/Feminity then again I'm all about Girl Power!!!

Spice Girls anyone?

[JAGG]

I loved it. I thought it was awesome. That some female, femme,lady,woman, whatever you prefer,embraces who I am and isn't embarrassed by my appearance. Isn't trying to soften, my look but saying ,people wouldn't call you sir so often if you would grow your hair out, or maybe if you would wear some womens clothes or even unisex clothes once in awhile. Maybe if you would get your ears pierced. She is saying, she wants that, that's what attracts her, she doesn't just accept it, deal with or tolerate it, she loves it!
Wish I could have known women like that exsisted when I was a teenager.
But then again I'm not one to read into things and pick apart word for word. Something someone wrote, I just take the face value of it, I know what she meant. She may not have used the proper wording, she assumed butch was a cut and dry stereotype . But I know she meant, that is the type she likes.
Since we are on the subject, I will stick my neck on the chopping board here. I was born butch. I have been butch all my life. And even I don't know half the terms or words or titles some people in the community think others should be using. Or terms that others find offensive. I guess it's all relative to the individual.
I'm pretty sure the person who wrote this wasn't trying to offend anyone, just the opposite, she was trying to say this is what I love. And probably if she thought she was offending someone would have worded it to their liking. Butch girl doesn't bother me at all. But that's just me, my opinion.