Butches who don't bind

[jac]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Funny I don't see these threads she has started as a place for conversation or community interaction. I see them as space that has been created for people to freely say some pretty judgmental opinions about what doesn't work for them instead of just focusing on what does work for them personally.

Binding is hard on the body, and done long term can cause permanent damage. If somebody doesn't have to do it then don't and be happy for it.

I understand what you are saying... and maybe I should have elaborated more clearly by saying that, the conversation whether good or bad has brought new perspective "to me." I have learned from the interactions within the community and I have found that through this experience there are areas that I will be more cautious of speaking out on and more aware of others' wording. I will openly admit that I am gullible at times and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt... and I absolutely agree with you on the "judgmental opinions" instead of "just focusing on what does work for them personally."

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by stone4play

I understand what you are saying... and maybe I should have elaborated more clearly by saying that, the conversation whether good or bad has brought new perspective "to me." I have learned from the interactions within the community and I have found that through this experience there are areas that I will be more cautious of speaking out on and more aware of others' wording. I will openly admit that I am gullible at times and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt... and I absolutely agree with you on the "judgmental opinions" instead of "just focusing on what does work for them personally."

You elaborated fine. I was just borrowing your words for a jumping off point. Just the way this thread is titled, to me, creates a negative space and I am not sure why. Maybe because it seems clinical or maybe because, to me, I have never had a negative encounter in a group of peers when we have discussed what we do, to take care of what we all have, in all our own personal ways...until here/online. In all my bowling leagues, softball teams, soccer teams, social, and business networking encounters have I felt such a need to separate, as I do here/online. It is usually just good healthy fun followed by some more drink/food and fun.

[jac]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

You elaborated fine. I was just borrowing your words for a jumping off point. Just the way this thread is titled, to me, creates a negative space and I am not sure why. Maybe because it seems clinical or maybe because, to me, I have never had a negative encounter in a group of peers when we have discussed what we do, to take care of what we all have, in all our own personal ways...until here/online. In all my bowling leagues, softball teams, soccer teams, social, and business networking encounters have I felt such a need to separate, as I do here/online. It is usually just good healthy fun followed by some more drink/food and fun.

Again I agree. This is why I said - I have learned from the interactions within the community and I have found that through this experience there are areas that I will be more cautious of speaking out on and more aware of others' wording. It has brought more awaeness and a level of feeling defensive/protective... And I too have that "need to separate" feeling deep down inside. I don't like it...

And yes, it does have a "clinical feel" to the threads

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Well that's what I thought, but steph said she's not had any gender studies classes. The topics are definitely loaded and not only has good convos happened but damn some ugly shits been said as well all in the name of opinion.

I'm curious as to how stephs real time experiences with butches are.

I'm curious as to how stephs real time experiences in journalism may be coming along. What a great research pool.

are we not readng between the lines and titles? We should.

[Martina]

I feel like Words does here. THere has been precious little sharing on Steph's part, but a lot of us have ponied up some intense things (that's on us).

I am assuming some naivete on her part. For one thing, she does not know the divisions in our community that some of these topics bring up.

Weatherboi's post rang true for me that some of the topics are worded in a way to get woman ID'd folks to bring up some stuff that is potentially divisive. That's fine if it's a thread started out of a need from part of a community. If it's just curiousity, and that curiosity is not naive, then yuck. If it is naive, I guess it's on us not to wander in and expose our souls. I certainly did on one thread.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Martina

I feel like Words does here. THere has been precious little sharing on Steph's part, but a lot of us have ponied up some intense things (that's on us).

I am assuming some naivete on her part. For one thing, she does not know the divisions in our community that some of these topics bring up.

Weatherboi's post rang true for me that some of the topics are worded in a way to get woman ID'd folks bring up some stuff that is potentially divisive. That's fine if it's a thread started out of a need from part of a community. If it's just curiousity, and that curiosity is not naive, then yuck. If it is naive, I guess it's on us not to wander in and expose our souls. I certainly did on one thread.

So agree with this!!! I really still hold out hope that Steph is just a newby and testing the waters, so to speak, learning the ropes. It appears to me that when an idea comes up in another thread, she starts one about that topic. I've seen her do this a lot. Seems to be very perceptive of how others feel and think. Her reasoning why i wouldn't try to guess. I also agree that she does not divulge much of herself. But, that is certainly her prerogative.

I guess bottom line is...respond to her or don't.

It's her choice to start new threads on any idea/ideal or reason she wants within the guidelines of the TOS, it is our choice to respond or not.

Take it or leave it....is how i see it.

[stephfromMIT]

Sorry if I'm upsetting everybody! NOT my intention. I'm not writing a book. I guess I'll just keep things to myself from now on.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Sorry if I'm upsetting everybody! NOT my intention. I'm not writing a book. I guess I'll just keep things to myself from now on.

Please don't feel that way.

I'm not speaking for everyone, but from some peeps....

"We" are nice i promise. "We" have just been around the block and sometimes our radar goes up and we question motive, intent. Many times it is true people are not who they seem. BUT not always.

We need new people around here. We won't gobble you up long. Consider it your initiation period of sorts.

Hang in there please. Just be as open as you want to be and mostly...honest...that's all anyone could ask for.

I hope you stay.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Sorry if I'm upsetting everybody! NOT my intention. I'm not writing a book. I guess I'll just keep things to myself from now on.

I don't mind your threads.. I'm truly interested about how you and your buds discuss and feel about butch issues!

[BullDog]

OK I get some people don't believe certain things to be true, but I personally don't get why people are so offended by her threads- the content and subject matter. To me they are reasonable questions that I think many young butches and butches new to online would ask. Some of the reactions make me feel unwelcome.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Sorry if I'm upsetting everybody! NOT my intention. I'm not writing a book. I guess I'll just keep things to myself from now on.

Is it just me or is this a tiny bit flouncy?

[Martina]

I would suggest reading more. The tiger cup energy is great, but periodically cubs get roared at.

We are a lot older than you here. There is a history here. And you can definitely offend some folks' sensibilities. If you'd rather blunder through and get yelled at periodically, then that's your risk. Personally, I took a while to get the lay of the land.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Are you writing a book!? You ask some deep questions!!!

Do any of the butches you know bind? Does Amanda have an opinion about it if you choose to? Have you thought about or tried binding?

How do you discuss this in your circle of peeps, I'll be honest the only time I've known about butches binding is here online, most if not all the butches I know don't.

[Sparkle]

I don't know stephfromMIT, so I can't speak to her intentions but reading the first post it seems as though she's stated the question, the rationale for asking it and her experience in the first sentence: binding came up in another thread, let's talk about it, and she goes on to say that she does not bind and why.

I don't know that anyone has the right to expect she should be baring her soul on this topic or any other. She expressed her experience and opened up a conversation.

AND like weatherboi, I have read the titles of the past two threads about butches who do not bind, or pack and I, too, have cringed.

My first reaction was "oh christ, here we go" And when I step back and examine my reaction objectively I know I cringe and roll my eyes because I (like most of us who have been around here and b-f.) know what kind of ugly butch- butcher- butchest nonsense is likely to rear its nasty head. Because, I, like many of you, know historically that divisiveness and negativity reign when these topics are raised.

I don't know if stephfromMIT knows that or not. I don't know if she's been around long enough to have witnessed it. I don't know if her intention was to stir the pot. AND Nor do you (general you).

The conjecture regarding her intentions and veracity, the assumption she's stirring a pot IS in and of itself - pot stirring.

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I actually think reading between the lines on a public forum is a dodgy business, i think it leads to all sorts of miscommunication and reaction. And I think we've come to that conclusion 8 gazillion and 1 times.

I believe in clear, concise and direct communication - not presumption.

And if your hackles go up, if you've got a bad feeling, if you have read between the lines and don't like what you've seen - leave it be, ignore the thread, don't participate, block the OP or the posters if you feel really strongly. Because conjecture is not fact. And the invisible intent found between the lines is not a reliable source.

If a conversation becomes ugly and negative it is solely the responsibility of the people who contribute to it. We bring our stuff to each thread we engage in, we are responsible for it. Not the OP. Not the person who said something that offended me/you/him/her. Not the site owners. Or the moderators who did or didn't intervene. Not the poster's partner. Or his ex girlfriends 'cats' foster mom. :P

We are responsible for ourselves and our words.

[BullDog]

I agree that it is usually best to focus on what we do rather than what we don't do. Sometimes, though, it turns into some good discussion. On the discussion of non-packing, many butches have been told or made to feel they are less than if they don't pack. When there is discussion about it, it is clear many butches do not. I do think it is far overstated online in terms of packing being the norm for butches. There is also nothing wrong with those that do pack. Either way is fine.

No one should divulge personal stuff they aren't comfortable with, no matter who the OP is. This is a public forum.

Great post Sparkle!

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I don't know stephfromMIT, so I can't speak to her intentions but reading the first post it seems as though she's stated the question, the rationale for asking it and her experience in the first sentence: binding came up in another thread, let's talk about it, and she goes on to say that she does not bind and why.

I don't know that anyone has the right to expect she should be baring her soul on this topic or any other. She expressed her experience and opened up a conversation.

AND like weatherboi, I have read the titles of the past two threads about butches who do not bind, or pack and I, too, have cringed.

My first reaction was "oh christ, here we go" And when I step back and examine my reaction objectively I know I cringe and roll my eyes because I (like most of us who have been around here and b-f.) know what kind of ugly butch- butcher- butchest nonsense is likely to rear its nasty head. Because, I, like many of you, know historically that divisiveness and negativity reign when these topics are raised.

I don't know if stephfromMIT knows that or not. I don't know if she's been around long enough to have witnessed it. I don't know if her intention was to stir the pot. AND Nor do you (general you).

The conjecture regarding her intentions and veracity, the assumption she's stirring a pot IS in and of itself - pot stirring.

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I actually think reading between the lines on a public forum is a dodgy business, i think it leads to all sorts of miscommunication and reaction. And I think we've come to that conclusion 8 gazillion and 1 times.

I believe in clear, concise and direct communication - not presumption.

And if your hackles go up, if you've got a bad feeling, if you have read between the lines and don't like what you've seen - leave it be, ignore the thread, don't participate, block the OP or the posters if you feel really strongly. Because conjecture is not fact. And the invisible intent found between the lines is not a reliable source.

If a conversation becomes ugly and negative it is solely the responsibility of the people who contribute to it. We bring our stuff to each thread we engage in, we are responsible for it. Not the OP. Not the person who said something that offended me/you/him/her. Not the site owners. Or the moderators who did or didn't intervene. Not the poster's partner. Or his ex girlfriends 'cats' foster mom. :P

We are responsible for ourselves and our words.

I think we can all agree with much of your post, Sparkle.

I posted something inflammatory this morning and then deleted it because I did not wish to, as you say, stir the pot.

In my eyes there are WAY too many inconsistencies in Steph's posts. Some of them are glaring and others are easy to miss unless you are looking for them.

The thing that bothers me is that I, personally, have asked several times for what I consider to be simple clarifications, and have never received solid answers. Finally, I sent the OP a private message and received what I perceived to be a very juvenile, flippant and disrespectful response. My dad graduated from MIT...I feel like I have a legitimate interest.

Steph, you have started some fabulously inquisitive threads and if your intentions are not malicious, then I will be the first to apologize. But right now I question your intentions and quite frankly, I feel a little unsafe having you here. I don't like feeling this way, which is why I came to you personally for clarification.

I for one LOVE new community members and try to roll out the red carpet for all. But I am having trouble here and I feel like there is the potential for hurt when members are being told possible untruths. Especially when it comes to very personal issues like identity and spaces within our hearts.

[stephfromMIT]

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

Ahem,

Sweet, so would I,
Yet I should kill thee with much cherishing.
Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow








no one's gonna chase you steph, ya may as well stay and continue to come up with extremely popular threads.

[macele]

as for as binding goes, ...

i have binded. but mostly for medical reasons. i'm still dealing with those reasons. i had binded some before the surgery (heart). not much. i've never discussed binding, not on a forum. i don't like large breasts, not on me. so i do it to keep it all still LOL. just to be honest. no other reason. lots of women do it that are involved in sports, say the compression shirt. ever watch the wnba, ... o they are doing some binding. but all of those women are not butches.

[yotlyolqualli]

steph, if your threads do nothing else, they get people thinking.

Often, that is not popular. It makes people uncomfortable, sometimes, to have to look at, examine, or even acknowledge that other's can, quite possibly have, idea's, ideal's and beliefs that so differ from our own. lol

What you've brought to this community... while many don't like it, is thought. You make us think. You make us examine. You make us angry sometimes. You raise our hackles sometimes. But in doing that.. you challenge the status quote, you challenge perception and you challenege our own thoughts and thought processes.

If I did not feel safe with you in this community, I would stay off of your threads. I would block your posts. I would not engage. I would not enter into a lion's den, just in order to let the lion know that I feel unsafe in their den.

Ask away. Post your threads. Keep raising our hackles, because damn it, without someone to churn the waters, the pool would get pretty damned stagnant!

BTW, I don't care who you, where you come you from, who your daddy is, or what you look like. Why? Because, right now, you are a name on a screen. You are more than likely never going to be in my IRL circle of friends or family. Not because I would not include you, but because, realistically, it's just not going to happen.

I do my best to be blatantly honest about who I am. However, there are aspects of me that I would NEVER divulge to an online community, because, frankly, it's not anyone's business but those who are around me, IRL.

So, in closing, steph... I don't care if anything you post about your personal self here, is truth, or not. I appreciate what you bring to these boards and I hope you don't leave. It's not your muscles, your education or occupation, OR lack thereof, that makes me THINK, it's your words.

Take care.