Obama's Public Support of Michael Vick

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by suebee

THIS is what I've said several times that I had never seen - Vick "getting it".

And I agree that it's "Ickey" Snowy. But my ickey may not be your ickey. That doesn't mean either is more important or one or the other is wrong.

*You* don't think Vick has gotten it, but in all honesty how do *you* know? like I said in my bolded post, he could prove ya'll wrong it ain't gonna matter, it's pretty fucking obvious cause a call for his death was voiced I don't see you having as much passion about it as you do an animal.

So yeah we aren't gonna agree.


Read his blog (I forgot to post it in my post)


http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/...what-ive-done/


Maybe then just maybe (I doubt it) you will be satisfied with his regrets.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

*You* don't think Vick has gotten it, but in all honesty how do *you* know? like I said in my bolded post, he could prove ya'll wrong it ain't gonna matter, it's pretty fucking obvious cause a call for his death was voiced I don't see you having as much passion about it as you do an animal.

So yeah we aren't gonna agree.


Read his blog (I forgot to post it in my post)


http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/...what-ive-done/


Maybe then just maybe (I doubt it) you will be satisfied with his regrets.

I have made no bones about my posts being MY opinions. I've repeatedly asked if anybody had seen him say anything that indicated that he really got it. I also asked you if I should ignore the matter BECAUSE he was a black man - no response to either.

As to whether or not I will be "satisfied" with his regrets.....you know nothing of me nor of my personal values - obviously.

Thanks for posting the link. I'll read it with interest.

Sue

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by suebee

I have made no bones about my posts being MY opinions. I've repeatedly asked if anybody had seen him say anything that indicated that he really got it. I also asked you if I should ignore the matter BECAUSE he was a black man - no response to either.

As to whether or not I will be "satisfied" with his regrets.....you know nothing of me nor of my personal values - obviously.

Thanks for posting the link. I'll read it with interest.

Sue

Tell you what I will answer your question when you answer ours..

What would be an a good enough punishment for Vick?

You seem to have skipped over that particular question as well, as for ignoring this I am not advocating his heinous crimes, but I sure damn well am not gonna sit here quietly and watch the grossness that has happened in this thread and if you say that grossness has not happened I will point each and everyone out.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Tell you what I will answer your question when you answer ours..

What would be an a good enough punishment for Vick?

You seem to have skipped over that particular question as well, as for ignoring this I am not advocating his heinous crimes, but I sure damn well am not gonna sit here quietly and watch the grossness that has happened in this thread and if you say that grossness has not happened I will point each and everyone out.

I've never spoken to the criminal punishment for several reasons: I don't believe it works, and for crimes such as animal abuse I don't think it comes close to changing something. There has to be a change in attitude - in core belief systems, before somebody gets it. I'm not judge or jury. I'd hate to be involved in the process because it's a system that is so far out of date, and continues because we as a society feel that we have to see something DONE. It's almost a moot point in my opinion, except some people actually NEED to be locked up for the protection of others.

Of course Vick was in prison for bankrolling dog fights, NOT animal abuse. But the fact that he never admitted to animal abuse during the trial process - and I read that the judge was actually harder on him because of his lack of apparent remorse - is easy to understand in that he grew up in that culture, and hadn't yet come to terms with the absolute horror of his actions.

I read the blog, and that's EXACTLY what *I* needed to hear from him. I asked several times if anybody had seen him apologize - thanks for finally posting it.

[Julie]

I am feeling a bit quiet in my soul right now after reading Vick's blog.

When he was first charged with this, the outrage we all felt was great. Of course it was - what has been going on for a hundred plus years and something we have all known exists, was being brought into the light. We were faced with gruesome images of the atrocities these dogs faced. We had to look at ourselves and and even ask ourselves... Do we perpetuate crimes against animals?

Vick served his time. The president made a phone call and we all came in here to share our views on the subject. Some of us could be objective (though I cannot imagine how) and some of us wrote with deep emotions.

I am not a cynic. I never have been. I have always believed there is good in everybody. I have always believed people can change. It is what has gotten me through some of my darkest moments in my life. Perhaps some think, I live in a bubble. Perhaps I do.

This man (Vick) spoke about something none of us even thought of. His childhood - where he grew up - now, do not think for a moment I am making excuses for his actions, I am not. BUT - I have not lived in a neighborhood filled with guns and violence. I do not know what it is like as a little child to hear gun shots all night. I do not know. He spoke of being numb! How many of us have gone through parts of our lives, where we were numb? Where we did not feel any emotion?

Again, I am not making excuses for him. For me, it answers some questions - perhaps questions I should have been asking when all of this happened. What could possibly make a person do this? Again, no excuses for his behavior. But, we all know behavior comes from some place.

Some of us are stronger than others - Some of us will never go to these lengths. Some of us value life from the beginning of time. But some of us, well... Some of us have never experienced what he or others have experienced. What about the little boy who is sexually abused throughout his life by a pedophile, only to turn into a pedophile! Now, not all do - but some do and what about us as a society? Is it our responsibility as a society to help people?

Who helped Vick when he was a kid? Who is helping all those children out there who live and experience violence in their lives on a day to day basis?

Again... I am not making excuses for Vick's behavior - but again... It answers some of my questions.

I only hope and pray that Vick will as he says... Reach just ONE person by his own experience, and that person will reach one person and so on and so on. It is how we stop the madness.

Dog fighting has been going on for a long time. Perhaps, just perhaps - This man can make a difference.

Thank you for posting his blog. I am going to follow his journey.

And Sue... I disagree with the quote you posted.

It’s much easier to forgive someone who can’t forgive himself.

Francis Battista

Co-Founder, Best Friends Animal Society"

Because really... One must be able to forgive themselves, before they can expect the rest of the world to forgive them. To be able to forgive yourself for such an atrocity, to be able to dig so deep within your soul and honestly forgive yourself, only shows me that this person has done some deep soul searching. I hope Vick can and will forgive himself, because what he did and if he has in fact changed... That is one HUGE cross to bear for the rest of your life. And only a soul which has been cleansed of the bad, can do good in this world.

Julie

[dykeumentary]

Not meant to de-rail, but rather to talk about community recognition of punishment completed, and the different standards "we" seem to have about repentance/rehabilitation:

Paula Poundstone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Poundstone
"In 2001, Poundstone was arrested on a felony warrant for three counts of committing a lewd act on an unidentified girl under age 14. The Los Angeles County District Attorney's office also stated that Poundstone was charged with endangering two other unidentified girls and two boys.[11] Few details were released, but the prosecutor indicated that the charges were a result of an incident in which Poundstone was driving her children while intoxicated. She accepted a plea agreement and pleaded "no contest" to felony child endangerment and a misdemeanor charge of inflicting injury on a child. In exchange, the three charges of lewd conduct were dropped by prosecutors....
Since then she has used the incident—and the resulting publicity—as the source for some of her comedic material." (my bolds)

She's on a national tour right now. Are there protests? What would the community response look like if she wasn't white? She isn't apologizing, apparently she thinks its funny?

[Toughy]

I found this article this morning......it is a blog that was originally in The Nation

Michael Vick, Racial History and Animal Rights

Melissa Harris-Perry – Thu Dec 30, 11:29 am ET

Last night I had one of those awful television moments that sometimes afflict those of us who spend part of our life in classroom where we have 90 minutes to discuss a topic and the other part of our life on television where we are constrained to four-minute analyses. On Wednesday evening I joined The Rachel Maddow Show to discuss the current flap surrounding Michael Vick and President Obama.

My goal was to offer some historical context for understanding the vastly different responses to Vick’s crime, to the severity of his punishment, and to the sense that he should be given a second chance to earn a living as a professional football player. I believe that to understand these different public responses we need to know how the Vick case evokes often unspoken, but nonetheless powerful, and deeply emotional interconnections between the rights of black Americans and of animals. Instead, having vastly underestimated the allotted time for the segment I instead seemed to argue that Vick’s acts were justified by the history of American racism. This touched off quite a flood of hate mail to my email inbox last night. So I’ve decided to make one more effort to discuss this complicated issue.

Last year I was teaching an introductory politics course at Princeton University when a campus animal rights group brought to campus a fascinating and provocative exhibit that linked animal cruelty to human degradation, imprisonment and slavery. The images in the exhibit were part of a larger international PETA effort. They were disturbing, but also very powerful.

Many African American students on campus were deeply offended, hurt and angry about the exhibit's comparison of animal suffering to the realities of the slave trade and lynching. The Organization of Black Students organized a protest and boycott. The campus animal rights group organized a teach-in. I had leaders from both student organizations in my class that semester. The tension, emotion, and analytic challenges raised by the exhibit became an important aspect of the class. A group of students even made a film about the issue for the final class project. As I sought to help guide my students through these interactions I opened up a new line of research on the politics of race and animal rights.

Recall that North American slavery of the 17th and 18th century is distinguished by its "chattel" element. New World slavery did not consider enslaved Africans to be conquered persons, but to be chattel, beast of burden, fully subhuman and therefore not requiring the basic rights of humans. By defining slaves as animals and then abusing them horribly the American slave system degraded both black people and animals. By equating black people to animals it both asserted the superiority of humans to animals, arrayed some humans (black people) as closer to animals and therefore less human, and implied that all subjugated persons and all animals could be used and abused at the will of those who were more powerful. The effects were pernicious for both black people and for animals.

Equating black people to animals was a practice that continued after emancipation. Consider the image below. It is a picture of an Alabama store during the Jim Crow era. The sign reads: No Negro or Ape Allowed in the Building.

This pair of images reminds that these comparisons continue in contemporary popular culture and often with particular relevance to American sports.

When the abuse and oppression of an entire group of people is justified as acceptable because they are defined as animals, then it stands to reason the society is suggesting that abuse and oppression are acceptable ways to treat animals. Michael Vick committed horrendous acts of cruelty. I have had dogs as pets for my entire life. I am sickened by his actions. At the same time I recognize that he is one individual in a larger society that is profoundly complicit in the abuse and mistreatment of animals. Ideologies of white supremacy have particular culpability in that attitude toward animals because it was part of the governing ideology of slavery and segregation.

Given this history we might think that African Americans would be particulalry strident animal rights activists, seeing their interests as profoundly linked. But the relationship between race, rights, and animals is more complicated. Dogs, for example, were used by enslavers to catch, trap and return those who were trying to escape to freedom. Dogs were used to terrorize Civil Rights demonstrators. In short, animals have been weapons used against black bodies and black interests in ways that have deep historical resonace.

Not only have animals been used as weapons against black people, but many African Americans feel that the suffering of animals evokes more empathy and concern among whites than does the suffering of black people. For example, in the days immediately following Hurricane Katrina dozens of people sent me a link to an image of pets being evacuated on an air conditioned bus. This image was a sickening juxtaposition to the conditions faced by tens of thousands of black residents trapped by the storm and it provoked great anger and pain for those who sent it to me.

I sensed that same outrage in the responses of many black people who heard Tucker Carlson call for Vick's execution as punishment for his crimes. It was a contrast made more raw by the recent decision to give relatively light sentences to the men responsible for the death of Oscar Grant. Despite agreeing that Vick's acts were horrendous, somehow Carlson's moral outrage seemed misplaced. It also seemed profoundly racialized. For example, Carlson did not call for the execution of BP executives despite their culpability in the devastation of Gulf wildlife. He did not denounce the Supreme Court for their decision in US v. Stevens (April 2010) which overturned a portion of the 1999 Act Punishing Depictions of Animal Cruelty. After all with this "crush" decision the Court seems to have validated a marketplace for exactly the kinds of crimes Vick was convicted of committing. For many observers, the decision to demonize Vick seems motivated by something more pernicious than concern for animal welfare. It seems to be about race.

It is into this murky racial history that President Obama inadvertently waded this week. Whatever the quality (or lack thereof) of his argument about incarceration and its lifelong effects on those who serve time, I suspect the President could not be heard over the din of emotion, anxiety, and history around race and animals in this country. Last night I found myself similarly unable to articulate the difficult and complex relationships that can make it so difficult to hear one another across this divide. My goal was not to defend Vick nor to condemn him, but to try to understand our very different national reactions to him.

[blush]

Originally Posted by suebee

Of course Vick was in prison for bankrolling dog fights, NOT animal abuse. But the fact that he never admitted to animal abuse during the trial process - and I read that the judge was actually harder on him because of his lack of apparent remorse - is easy to understand in that he grew up in that culture, and hadn't yet come to terms with the absolute horror of his actions.

I read the blog, and that's EXACTLY what *I* needed to hear from him. I asked several times if anybody had seen him apologize - thanks for finally posting it.

You used the term "that culture?" Could you define "that culture?" I'm not sure what culture you're referring to, and I don't want to make assumptions.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by blush

You used the term "that culture?" Could you define "that culture?" I'm not sure what culture you're referring to, and I don't want to make assumptions.

I think she means grew up around dog fighting. Subsequently, the dog fighting was "normalized" and he was desensitized to it. It would make sense then that he would have no remorse. (however, I think that some personality types would never become accustomed to this...especially since the message from the larger culture is that this is not acceptable behavior...so there is a place where a counter message is being presented that could make a difference).

P.S. I actually have no knowledge if Vick grew up around dog fighting...I am assuming he did based on suebee's statement.

[sharkchomp]

For many years I rooted for Vick. He was/is so talented. He started changing things for Atlanta (football wise) for the better. He became a role model for many people. Then he got busted and I was crushed. And then I watched a nat geo special on what happened to the dogs that were found on his property and the depth of cruelty they endured. I was angry. It bothered me to my core. But this wasn't just about Michael Vick but the depravity of men. So what I'm saying here is that it bothered me on a deep level.

I've never looked at as a race thing but perhaps more of a gender thing. How many times have you heard one of your gal friends saying, "hey, there's dog fights at Sally's Saturday night, we should go!"

I didn't look at it as 'oh no, he's a POC (as Snow stated) but I did think what a shame WE have lost a great role model because a lot of kids really looked up to him.

With his recent success it didn't bother me that the President called him. But I do struggle internally. I don't want to root for him. I am no longer a fan, all the respect I had for him is gone. But I think I'm flawed in my thinking because I should root for him - perhaps not the football player, but for the man. Truth is, the more successful he is, the louder his voice. Perhaps he can make a difference for the better. That is my hope, that is my prayer.

~~~shark~~~~~~~

[Melissa]

I had never heard of Michael Vick until the charges and conviction of animal cruelty and dog fighting came out in the media. I think it comes down to money. He has skills and talent that people can make money from so it doesn't surprise me he is back in the NFL. Did Obama give a reason for his public support of Vick? Is Vick or the team he works for a big contributor to the Democratic Party. Of all the things on a President's plate it seems an odd thing to take time out to do unless campaign contributions play a big part in all this at some level. Or am I just way off here?

Melissa

[suebee]

Originally Posted by sharkchomp

For many years I rooted for Vick. He was/is so talented. He started changing things for Atlanta (football wise) for the better. He became a role model for many people. Then he got busted and I was crushed. And then I watched a nat geo special on what happened to the dogs that were found on his property and the depth of cruelty they endured. I was angry. It bothered me to my core. But this wasn't just about Michael Vick but the depravity of men. So what I'm saying here is that it bothered me on a deep level.

I've never looked at as a race thing but perhaps more of a gender thing. How many times have you heard one of your gal friends saying, "hey, there's dog fights at Sally's Saturday night, we should go!"

I didn't look at it as 'oh no, he's a POC (as Snow stated) but I did think what a shame WE have lost a great role model because a lot of kids really looked up to him.

With his recent success it didn't bother me that the President called him. But I do struggle internally. I don't want to root for him. I am no longer a fan, all the respect I had for him is gone. But I think I'm flawed in my thinking because I should root for him - perhaps not the football player, but for the man. Truth is, the more successful he is, the louder his voice. Perhaps he can make a difference for the better. That is my hope, that is my prayer.

~~~shark~~~~~~~

Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the President called the owner of the team, not Vick. The stated purpose of the call was to congratulate him for giving someone who'd done time in prison a second chance.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

*You* don't think Vick has gotten it, but in all honesty how do *you* know? like I said in my bolded post, he could prove ya'll wrong it ain't gonna matter, it's pretty fucking obvious cause a call for his death was voiced I don't see you having as much passion about it as you do an animal.

So yeah we aren't gonna agree.


Read his blog (I forgot to post it in my post)


http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/...what-ive-done/


Maybe then just maybe (I doubt it) you will be satisfied with his regrets.

Originally Posted by blush

You used the term "that culture?" Could you define "that culture?" I'm not sure what culture you're referring to, and I don't want to make assumptions.

Blush: if you click on Snowy's link you can read about it in Michael Vick's own words. That's what I was referring to by "that culture".

The region where I grew up had an underground culture of cock fighting - it would seem very similar to Vick's upbringing.

Sue

[Nat]

Cause see, my whole life has been numb. I was numb to the violence in my community...cause I saw it all the time, ever since I was a child. I mean, how does one grow up in a city that's nickname is Bad Newz? You can probably guess that from the jump, ya' know I've seen some bad things in my life.

But, what I didn't realize then, that I have begun to realize now, is that even though I had more money in my pocket, big cars and big houses, I was still numb. And when I say numb, I ain't talkin about not realizing the stuff that was going on around me, it was just like I was living life asleep.

Some of Vick's blog post sounds like PTSD to me.

from the National Center for PTSD article Criminal Behavior and PTSD:

Changes in feelings

■Distress: When reminded of a trauma, those with PTSD have high levels of distress. This is likely to affect their judgment and make them less able to use reason in their responses.

■Negative Feelings: Those with PTSD often have high levels of fear, worry, guilt, anger, shame, or depression. These unpleasant feelings may lead them to use drugs and alcohol in an attempt to feel better. Substance use and abuse can in turn cloud judgment and cause them to do things they might not normally do. Also, guilt may lead survivors to commit acts that will likely result in their being punished, injured or killed.

■Feeling Numb: At the same time, another class of PTSD symptoms, emotional numbing, may lead to wrongful or criminal behavior because the sufferer has:

■Less empathy or feeling sorry for the victim
■Trouble feeling remorse or guilt for their acts
■Trouble sensing how severe and grave their criminal act is, or what the results may be
Numbing could also lead some survivors to engage in "thrill-seeking" behaviors as they try to feel some type of emotion.

And the article - Criminal Behavior and PTSD: An Analysis

Research shows that higher rates of aggressive behavior are seen in those with PTSD, compared to those without PTSD. For example, the National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study found that male Veterans diagnosed with PTSD versus those without PTSD committed significantly more acts of violence against family and others. On average, those with PTSD committed 13.3 violent acts in the prior year, compared to 3.54 acts for Veterans without PTSD.

Other studies found that the prevalence of PTSD in prison inmates is higher than in the general population. It is important to note that any relationship between PTSD and crime could be correlational rather than causative. That is to say, a third factor could give rise to both PTSD and criminal behavior. Also, research findings on the relationship between PTSD and crime are variable due to methodological differences among studies.

Emotional numbness seems to be mostly associated with either depression or ptsd. Either way it sounds like he doesn't (or maybe didn't) have a whole lot of empathy - that he has more with people than with animals (which i think is generally true of most people) so if he truly feels regret now it's because he's been able to feel a bit of empathy for the other people who have feelings of empathy toward the dogs. If his trouble was a deficit of empathy, it seems people have a deficit of empathy toward him too.

With the shooting of Gabby Giffords, first people blamed, then people generally started looking at causes. With the shooter, people tend to talk about gun control or they tend to talk about the state of mental health assistance in this country. It's obvious that guy has something wrong with his head if you watch his youtubes. But I think white people have traditionally been more prone to jump toward a psychology-oriented conclusion about another white person. (Meaning white people tend to seek understanding when other white people commit crimes).

It's also a lot easier to to demonize Michael Vick because it's way easier to look at what he did and point the finger - than to look at what happened to that poor animal you yourself ate for dinner last night - whose lifetime probably contained even less joy and more suffering than some of those dogs.

I've noticed white people tend to like Hemingway (though maybe that's just the white people I know) despite his love affair with bullfighting and killing things.

'Nobody ever lives their life all the way up except bull-fighters.'
- Chapter 2, The Sun Also Rises, Ernest Hemingway

And Madonna seemed to advocate for bullfighting when this video was made:



(and by the way, this is a very sanitized version of what bullfighting entails). White people didn't call for her death after that video was made.

remember that cute little disney movie called "The Fox and the Hound"?



The reason they were destined to be pitted against each other was because the hound was going to grow up to hunt foxes. (A tradition originated in England).

In the US it's perfectly accepted to eat cow, chicken, lamb and pig - no matter what sufferings they endure before they end up on your plate. lobsters (cooked alive, mind you). Raw oysters are eaten alive and nobody bats an eye. There's a growing trend in the US for eating octopi and lobsters while they are still alive. Hunting is a huge "sport" here in the US. Few people have issues with horse-racing, but horse-racing also involves animal cruelty. Nobody called for Julia Roberts' death after she was seen at the races in the movie, "Pretty Woman."

Ever worn silk? Do you know where it comes from? Silk-worms make their little coccoons and settle down for a nice metamorphosis, and then people take the coccoons and heat them to death. Bugs are pretty fair game for most people though.

People failing to spay/neuter their pets is one of the primary reasons that most animal shelters cannot be no-kill shelters.

Hey, guess where dogfighting came from? Per NPR:

When the Romans invaded Britain in 43 A.D., both sides brought fighting dogs to the battlefield for the seven years of warfare that followed. The Romans may have won the war, but the British dazzled the victors with the ferocity of their dogs, which were far more battle-ready than their Roman counterparts.

Thus emerged a canine market of sorts. The Romans began to import British fighting dogs for use not only in times of war, but also for public amusement. In Rome's Colosseum, large audiences would gather to watch gladiator dogs pitted against other animals, such as wild elephants. The vicious dogs, thought to have been crossbred with the Romans' own fighting breed, were also exported to France, Spain and other parts of Europe, eventually finding their way back to Britain.

The Evolution of a Sport

By the 12th century, the practice of baiting — releasing fighting dogs into the ring with chained bulls and bears — had grown in popularity in England. For several centuries, baiting was considered a respectable form of entertainment among the English nobility. The practice, during which the dogs scratched and bit the bulls, was also used to tenderize meat for consumption. But by the early 19th century, the increasing scarcity and rising cost of bulls and bears, as well as growing concern about the issue of animal cruelty, damped the appeal of the sport. In 1835, the British Parliament outlawed all baiting activities. Following the law's passage, dog-on-dog combat emerged as the cheaper, legal alternative to baiting. Fighting dogs were crossbred with other breeds to create a fast, agile and vicious animal capable of brawling for hours at a time.

Anyway, animals are treated like shit in this world and I think it's extremely short-sighted to villify this one guy. It seems like a type of denial, a type of externalizing behavior.

Charlie Sheen can threaten his significant other with a knife, and he's still sitting pretty on 2 and a half men. White violence and black violence are not thought of or treated the same in the media or in the justice system in the US.

I think Vick says some really interesting things - instructive things - in his blog post.

Sitting in a prison cell didn't make me feel remorse. It was meeting so many animal lovers, speaking with them and looking them in their eyes. Staring at them. Looking so deep into their eyes that I began to feel their pain. Allowing that pain to enter into my body is when I started to understand how bad it really was.

It wasn't punishment, anger, revenge or shaming that helped Michael Vick feel anything about what he'd done. It was connection with people - it was people who took the time and who were brave enough to set aside talk of violence and revenge and instead sought that connection and understanding.

A while back now, there was a kid that made a gay-bashing game. Here, there was a thread about it. A few of us responded in anger. Diva had the presence of mind to reach out to the kid, who wrote back very politely and said he would remove the game. He had been fine with the angry comments on his game, but it was Diva's graciousness and respect, coupled with a genuine interest in his understanding the effects of his behavior, that caused him to change. Sounds like a similar phenomenon to me.

I know this post is kinda everywhere but hey so am I.

PS. Did I mention pate de foie gras?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by suebee

Blush: if you click on Snowy's link you can read about it in Michael Vick's own words. That's what I was referring to by "that culture".

The region where I grew up had an underground culture of cock fighting - it would seem very similar to Vick's upbringing.

Sue

suebee,

Just wanted to say that although you didn't indicate I was off track or anything, I should not have spoken for you. Not sure why I did that...maybe b/c it was an older thread and didn't know if you would come back here?

Regardless, I shouldn't have. Sorry.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Netflix is streaming Michael Vick's show called:

The Michael Vick Project



He was once the highest paid NFL star in history. He lost it all when he was convicted of bank rolling a dog fighting ring out of his own house. After two years in federal prison and losing everything he had, Michael Vick will attempt to make his way back as a football player, family man & role model

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Netflix is streaming Michael Vick's show called:

The Michael Vick Project



He was once the highest paid NFL star in history. He lost it all when he was convicted of bank rolling a dog fighting ring out of his own house. After two years in federal prison and losing everything he had, Michael Vick will attempt to make his way back as a football player, family man & role model

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

Yeah I don't like the idea of Casey Anthony going free but I do not believe in second chances for what either of them did. But that is just me.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

I'm very happy he has his own show. He has been working hard (in partnership with the Humane Society and others) across the country to end dog fighting. This show sounds like it will be another way for him to get the message of redemption and forgiveness out to others.

People can and do change. Vick deserves praise for what he is now doing.