Parenting

[Bard]

OK I have a wonderful 7.5 year old little girl with my EX she is smart sweet and caring. Doing great in school and is well adjusted my ex and I split when she was 3 and it has been hard on her at times I see her torn with wanting to be with both of us she has had melt downs when I took her back to her mom's but we talk about it and she always knows that I love her more then anything. she is headstrong and stoubborn just like me and gets the lovely sarcastic side from her other mother. just now she is starting to try to play us against each other like saying mommie wants me to bring my kindel to her house.. now that kindle is a presant from her grandpa .. my dad and it is staying here again we talked about it so we shall see.. Abigail knows we are all strugging money wise and as much as we would like to there just are places we can't go but we make the most of it. I am dating as you know and Desd has become avery inportant part in Abbys life as has Desd's famliy I think it is for good for Abby. My Ex is not dating but she has Abby when she is with the EX is surrounded by my EX's family and they really don't care for me unless then need something I know they make fun of me at times and Abby gets mad I just tell her its ok kiddo what matters is that Desd and I love her. I think we are doing ok the big key for us is we talk even when she has a meltdown I always hold her and we talk and I remind her that I love her..

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by christie0918

you can still walk into his room and find both of his laptops on the floor, the iPad tossed on the bed amongst just trash, his nasty fingerprints on the flat screen tv

What about taking all of these things away from him? I realize the internet stuff isn't as important as it used to be, but maybe having simple TV is enough of a perk for him......or gaming on the computers.

I'm sorry for the frustration. I do hope it gets better soon. Just so you know... I really do "get" the apathy thing. We've had our own trials over here.

[MsTinkerbelly]

christie...Thinker has a good idea, and one we have had to use with our daughter the slob.

As he is under 18 and unable to support himself, take EVERYTHING away. Make him earn things back. One week of showering daily, he gets his laptop (for example) two weeks of making his bed, he gets an air gun.....

Just a thought...my daughter also has "too much" and she only appreciates the things she buys herself, or that she has had to earn. And the stink? Girls can have funky odors too!

She does not have issues like Aspergers to deal with, but if you keep it basic and consistant it shouldn't take too long. I worked for 16 years with people having all types of issues and basic and simple really work the best. Yelling as you know only works when they think you might kick them hard!

I hope things improve for you soon.

[Jess]

Thanks everyone for responding to Christie's post. I sure appreciate the input and the feeling that we aren't the only parents driven nuts ( temporarily/ forevah) by dread teenagers... LOL!

He is a good kid/ young man. I love him and want to strangle him on a daily basis. LOL! When we are able to stay in good cheer about it, we see the progress he HAS made in the last year. It is actually pretty phenomenal. I think often, that is where so much of the frustration comes from. He is capable of far more than he is willing to do.

I know I was no picnic in my teen years, so I try to keep that in mind. We will just keep plugging away until we find that magic button that helps him "get it". I think he'll stumble across it around age 30. It is well hidden just behind the crap under his bed.

Thanks again folks. I know Christie brought this up, however, it is very important to me.

[jelli]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jelli -

Thanks for your response.

The unfortunate part of support groups, for me, has always been I have little patience for those who seem to get wrapped up in their issues, wearing them as a blanket to keep them warm - I tried an autism group when he was first diagnosed at 2.5 years and found that most times, it was just a lot of venting and not a lot of practical solutions. I feel like Jess and I spend enough energy talking about it and I just don't want to sacrifice any more of the precious time we have together to "boy issues."

I'm not dismissing anything that you or Tapu offered - really. You have no idea that just someone else heard me means so very much and I appreciate it. I know Jess does too.

Thanks again to you both -

Christie

I understand. One can get tired of presenting problems and not having any useful feedback and/or possible solutions.

With that being said, I like the idea of having him earn things back. Is this a reasonable direction to try? We were having trouble with our daughter and the counselor at one point suggested if it got bad enough to take everything from her room including her door. Give her choices to earn back her rights/things/etc. By choices she meant give her 2 choices that you can live with and let her choose one of those. You get what you want and they "think" they're somewhat in control.

Set up a barter system of sorts. can also use a timer so they can watch/hear when the time is about to be up so they can perhaps work a bit faster. Example: 20 minutes of cleaning could result in 20 minutes of X. If your son wants friends or gf to come over then what is that worth to him? What about racing him to get it done? "I bet I can get the laundry all folded before you take a shower." or perhaps going the opposite of calling him out and using lots of praise and rewards. Or a combination of these. Whatever you choose, be prepared to follow through though.

I know you've probably tried so many things, but I feel for you both and am scratching at what ever might work.

Stay strong together.

[christie]

I have been reading your responses and appreciate the concern and support you all are offering.

It sounds cliche', but we (I) have literally tried most everything you all are suggesting. As Jess mentioned, he HAS made so much progress in his maturation. A little over a year ago, he tried to be waited on hand and foot and literally asked for a mini fridge for his room so he "wouldn't have to walk down the steps and through the house to the kitchen." Sid the Sloth from Ice Age comes to mind.

I would take his door off his room but remember that part about personal hygiene?? Uh, no. Not now, not ever. Sometimes the smell seeps under and through the upstairs foyer. Febreeze and pet-odor candles are making a mint off us.

Something is going to give and its not going to be us. I always remind him that I will win, well, because I do and he might do well to remember that - I may have moments when I feel like just throwing up my hands and hoping for the best, but that doesn't last long. Less than 24 hours and Momma is heading home. He best be ready.

Thanks again - maybe there will be a lightbulb moment before I have a psuedo monster truck rally in the front yard using his stuff to crush. Stay tuned - there might be a youtube before the weekend is up.

(disclaimer: I don't think I really will do that, but heaven knows I have done more drastic things in the past over different issues - never with him)

[Jess]

and thankfully, not with me

[LaneyDoll]

I have been reading this thread for a while and think that everyone has great ideas. My kids are young (the oldest is 13) so I am stashing ideas-lol. I used to have a boss (referred to as B) who had a variation of the "earning back" idea that may help you or someone else following these posts...

Her daughter used to trash her bedroom horribly. So, after endless asking, yelling etc, B removed everything from the bedroom (including the items from the closet). For the first week, the daughter had nothing and had to sleep on the couch. At week two, the girl was allowed to return to her room, with her bed/sheets and dresser (which was emptied). Her daughter had to watch TV in the family room, had no privacy for her phone calls, had to accept the clothes B laid out for her etc. After the determined amount of time for punishment, B's daughter could earn her belongings back. B only had to enforce this punishment once. And, in cleaning out the room, they were able to clean out things that truly needed to go.

Now, obviously this is not feasible if the space in your home is limited (as mine is). Like I said, it may not be an option for everyone but it might be an idea for someone out there.

Happy Parenting

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by LaneyDoll

I have been reading this thread for a while and think that everyone has great ideas. My kids are young (the oldest is 13) so I am stashing ideas-lol. I used to have a boss (referred to as B) who had a variation of the "earning back" idea that may help you or someone else following these posts...

Her daughter used to trash her bedroom horribly. So, after endless asking, yelling etc, B removed everything from the bedroom (including the items from the closet). For the first week, the daughter had nothing and had to sleep on the couch. At week two, the girl was allowed to return to her room, with her bed/sheets and dresser (which was emptied). Her daughter had to watch TV in the family room, had no privacy for her phone calls, had to accept the clothes B laid out for her etc. After the determined amount of time for punishment, B's daughter could earn her belongings back. B only had to enforce this punishment once. And, in cleaning out the room, they were able to clean out things that truly needed to go.

Now, obviously this is not feasible if the space in your home is limited (as mine is). Like I said, it may not be an option for everyone but it might be an idea for someone out there.

Happy Parenting

My wife's son (15 1/2) has only his bed, clothes, and alarm clock in his room. He is not allowed to take his phone or laptop in there, and the charging stations for both are in the main room. He watches the TV in the living room.

It sucks because we have basically lost the living room (except when we all watch something together), but it beats the hell out of the stress we experienced at the start of last school year. Hearing from his teachers that he was falling asleep in class sent me through the friggin' roof.

Gaming systems?

Well....those are a thing of the past in this house. No need for a fancy PS3 when crazed step-dad takes EVERY game to the garage and puts a hammer to 'em. Oh, yes......yes, I did.

(My wife pointed out later how much money we could have sold them for.)

All that to say, I totally dig B's routine!!!

[Jess]

I do have this recurring dream, where bratboy asks me if I have seen his ( fill in the blank PSP, Nintendo, XBox, Laptops, Iphone, Ipad, MP3's, air guns, swords, etc) to which I respond," Yes, I saw that!"

My toys: Hack saw, hand saw, jig saw, cut off saw, circular saw, bow saw, table saw, compound mitre saw, reciprocal saw.... I SAW that somewhere...

[jelli]

Originally Posted by Thinker

My wife's son (15 1/2) has only his bed, clothes, and alarm clock in his room. He is not allowed to take his phone or laptop in there, and the charging stations for both are in the main room. He watches the TV in the living room.

It sucks because we have basically lost the living room (except when we all watch something together), but it beats the hell out of the stress we experienced at the start of last school year. Hearing from his teachers that he was falling asleep in class sent me through the friggin' roof.

Gaming systems?

Well....those are a thing of the past in this house. No need for a fancy PS3 when crazed step-dad takes EVERY game to the garage and puts a hammer to 'em. Oh, yes......yes, I did.

(My wife pointed out later how much money we could have sold them for.)

All that to say, I totally dig B's routine!!!

Cruel had some issues at one point... I specifically remember her coming home from work and the kids were sitting, yet again, in front of the t.v. and not a chore had actually done.

Cruel unplugged the t.v. and took it to the shed. Of course later we talked and it was brought back in(for me), but everyone got the point LOUD and CLEAR.

[DapperButch]

Jess/christie,

I am assuming that the reason you are not grounding him from time with friends is because you want him to socialize, since this is new for him?

You say this is the one thing he values.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Jess/christie,

I am assuming that the reason you are not grounding him from time with friends is because you want him to socialize, since this is new for him?

You say this is the one thing he values.

We have tried not to do that, however, we are both at the point of yes, we take away his privileges again until he gets it. In the past, his currency was the internet. I had no problem blocking him but he would call his mom at work every ten minutes so I would turn it back on , until she learned that she could just not answer the phone when he was having his little 7 year old tantrums. Now, he knows when I shut it off he doesn't need to bother doing the manipulation trip.

This evening, I made him aware that as of tomorrow morning, there will be no internet and no friends coming or going until his room is cleaned, he is bathed and his laundry done. Of course, he will do what he always does and ask me to leave it on while he is cleaning and of course, I will say no.

I think for me, I get very tired of the same argument, the same issues, over and over and I do just "throw up my hands". I get tired of the privilege, the apathy, the smart ass treatment he gives to his mother and fear becoming just as apathetic where he is concerned.

We'll see how it goes this weekend. We have also set time limits/ curfews for him being out at night and how late his friends can hang out unless it is a sleepover. As this is still "new" to him, the having friends thing, we have been trying to teach him things he would have learned years ago, had he the opportunity/ confidence then to be more social.

Thank you all for being so supportive. We'll just keep pluggin away!

[LaneyDoll]

@Jess, y'all just keep sticking to your guns. Whatever routine you establish, the main thing is consistency. If you say you are going to do it, do it. I know it is not always easy, I have my own moments where I want to just give in b/c I am tired or busy. But I have found that things I do not waiver on are rarely an issue.

And, if/when you need to vent, vent here-you seem to have a lot of support here

[christie]

Thank you all for your support and hanging in there with us.

The good news of the day is that he has chosen a job coach and it looks like we are well on the way to part-time employment!

Yay!

Happy weekend - ya'll keep an eye out for my impromptu monster truck show in our front yard!

[christie]

As with most things, its two forward and three back.

He did choose a job coach. Yay. I didn't have to have the monster truck run in the front yard. That made Jess happy - she wasn't looking forward to what I would have done to her perfect lawn!

We had some good talks WITH him and I was able to reiterate that this was me saying enough. Setting a boundary with consequences if he continued to be disrespectful and rude to me. I was on the verge of the Mommymelt, but managed to hold it in so that he could see just how emotionally charged I was about this but also that I was not reacting in an inappropriate way.

Was it a perfect weekend? Nope. Was it better than it has been? Yes.

I made a point to grab him and hug him yesterday - for no reason. We were having a good day. He was working on his laundry and had actually listened to Jess suggesting that when he finished his snack, to bring his dish back down to the kitchen and to get the load of clothes out of the dryer. When I went to the mudroom to remind him, he was walking around the corner with an arm full of clothes.

Its progress. Simple things that are often taken for granted by other parents. I felt like throwing a parade. Just to have 12 hours or so where it wasn't angst and tension.

Last night, I went to bed around 8 so I could get up at 2am to make my 4 hr commute, work till dark-thirty and come collapse before I have to be back at the office in the AM. Jess woke me around 11 to inform me that "the boy isnt in his room. He's left." I was ready to just curl under the covers and hope for the best.

I was surprised when I called him that he actually answered the phone. That he actually came home when I, not so June Cleaverly, demanded that he come home now. I went back to bed and Jess went to let him in and deal with it.

Jess was literally still up when I stumbled out of bed at 3am. Bratboy was also still up. I just didnt have it in me to start my 15 hr day with addressing the situation other than to remind him that 6pm on my "school nights" is the latest I wanted him to have company and that he should be in the house by 10. He did apologize and since Jess has had the conversation of. "Do we need to resort to locking deadbolts? Me sleeping downstairs in the guest room when your mom isn't home? What's it gonna take for you to keep yourself at home and not wandering about in the middle of the night?"

I am hopeful that he is just pushing boundaries to see what he can get away with - again, I think some of this is just him reaching certain levels of maturation - he should have been pushing these boundaries a couple of years ago if we look at age-appropriateness. Part of me is SO glad that he is reaching these stages. The rest of me wonders how my folks survived FOUR teenagers. No wonder my mother is medicated; alas, I digress. That's a WHOLE 'nother thread.

Here's hoping that its a good week. Jess could use a break.

[Lizzy]

I am sorry to hear that your dealing with this.I have my own version of this going on at home.My oldest son is 16 and was diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder after years of misdiagnosis.He was being treated for ADHD and yes ADHD meds helped a bit with his percieved hyper activity and he was able to focus on schoolwork but it left him completely emotionally unbalanced.He began to develop OCD and boy was he moody.At night I would pray for him to fall asleep because the meds gave him insomnia.Eventually after years of testing and therapy he was finally diagnosed correctlly.The hyper activity was actually the manic side of the bi-polar disorder.There is also some possiblity of some low level Aspergers which my sisters 17yr old son has as well.I have to stay on top of basic things most 16yr olds will do automatically like brushing teeth, using soap in the shower,using deoderent,not putting dirty clothes back on.....the list goes on.But with medication(Seroquel)he is like a totally different kid.If he misses just a few doses he is not ok.Just this weekend he was visiting with my mother and she didn't give him his medication.She said he told her I was saving them because they are expensive and for some reason she believed him.She stopped by my classroom today and says "God I am so tired, Michael was up at 5a.m chatting up the neighbors out for their morning walk".I knew right away he was off his meds.I had to tell her if she is not going to make sure he takes his meds he can't stay for overnight visits with her.Needless to say life isn't always easy but over the years we have developed some good stategies that make life easier.The best piece of advice I ever got was his body may be one age but his brain is much younger.This became more obvious to me as his almost 4yr younger brother can do so much more at 12.5 and how much more mature he is than his brother.He already feels at just 12 a huge sense of responsability for his brother.I wish you the best,hopefully things will get easier soon.

[RavynTuqiri]

Originally Posted by tapu

Hi, Christie.

A couple of things came to mind as I was reading your post...

First, I thought, eh, that's what a guy that age is like. But I figure you've got a handle on that and know that this goes beyond.

Another thing that I get out of it is that you do think he's capable of great improvement in this area. So it's not that he's completely limited in maturing this way. It just hasn't happened.

I assume you do the list thing because I can't imagine getting this far without such proven tools.

I wonder if setting him up in more of a space of his own would eventually lead to natural motivation to improve in this area. Like, I don't know your house set-up obviously, but if he has a bed/bath of his own, or even just a separated out bedroom, and you stop all housekeeping service in there.... Well, eventually he runs out of basketball shorts, too.

It might take a while, which could be blech-y. Most older teen guys just have basically bad hygiene so who wants to sit next to them? Eventually though, he may be motivated to clean up.

The other thing that can jumpstart a kid is developing an interest in romance. You may have to use only a band-aid right now.

I don't know if any of this would be helpful, but I really got into your post. Please give word of how it goes. tapu

I have a daughter who is now 20....I don't think what you're describing is beyond the realm of normal. My daughter made the choice to move out in lieu of cleaning her room. She moved in with a roommate even more of a slob than she was.

She was much as you describe, very apathetic towards things that most adults would deem basic life skills.

She moved back in 3 months later...a changed child. She cleaned up after herself often without prompting. Living with a slob taught her more than I ever could.

Life is funny like that sometimes

[RavynTuqiri]

You know in reading the thread here about the struggles we face as parents with our children...I am struck by a few observations:

I see a lot of my own child's struggles in your posts...the clean clothes vs dirty clothes, putting toothpaste on the tooth brush, turning off lights, tv's, radio's, when your not in the room...or the house for that matter. Picking up trash, clothes, shoes, or anything else she felt inclined to drop between the front door and her bedroom.

The emotional maturity (or at times, the lack there of).

I do not feel my daughter has an underlying disorder not treated. I think my kid is well...normal. There are those children who mature emotionally more quickly than others. There are those who seem to have "old souls". If some children appear to have old souls, then others surely must have young souls.

My daughter is 20 and I think (I hope) is finally moving in the right direction. Her friends figured certain things out the year or two before...she's now starting to realize and accept certain things about life and is embracing them (finally) and her attitude shift has also impacted her basic life skills (cleaning, laundry, bills, etc).

I think in this society we are sometimes pegged to a defined age that makes an "adult" (18)....yet adulthood and maturity don't often go hand in hand (I have an ex that is a perfect example...hell at times, I can be a good walking example too).

I think some kids just take a little longer to get there and may take a different path at times (these are the paths that gives us parents grey hairs).