Spirituality and Orientation/Gender - Page 3

Bit · 06-27-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus007

....I believe that feminine and masculine are completely independent of biological designation.

Oh now, THIS is interesting... part of me says "No WAY!!" and another part of me says "yes, of course that's it!"

Ambivalent much, Cath? lol....

Jett · 08-09-2010, 08:05 AM

Speaking from my perspective, in my personal identity only.

As far as reincarnation, (and all purely in a hypothetical sense) when I was younger the thought crossed my mind that it would be likely if it existed that I was male in my previous life... my lady has made the comment as well. But that said I think it's perfectly natural for many people to be born with and/or develop strong dual energies that seemingly contrasts with bodily sex by societal standards .

These days I would say- again hypothetically- that if I had a past life it's just as likely I was gender non conforming... or fluidly gendered then too as I believe gender fluidity is natural thing and not a state of confusion created by a "spirits" or "souls" being binarily gendered and randomly tossed around (reincarnated) in different sexed bodies.

In other words I think it's society's pushing the (socially constructed) binary from day one that makes a fluid gender seem confusing to a person who is outside of what society deemed the only two norms.

In my life I've had a lot of struggles with "what am I". Speaking in the language available, within I'm distinctly of dual energy, yin and yang with a masculine slant in most areas and outer shell... yet it doesn't really trump the female energy, or outer markers... in most ways they are balanced and they are also one.

How has spirituality affected my views of my gender? I'm not sure it has. Only perhaps from my spiritual perspective and beliefs my "gender" feels simple, whole and natural, it's only from a societal, and human language perspective does it feel awkward.

Not sure I'm hitting on the mark of what you were asking for here Nat, but it's the first thoughts off the top of my head after skimming the thread (I'm pressed for time today).

Interesting thread (thumbs up),

Metro

AtLast · 08-09-2010, 05:05 PM

Personally, my seeking explanation, comfort, self-knowledge brought me to Jung very early and the Great Mother of Neuman as a spiritual base. Both fit together for me not only in the concepts of unconscious archtypes of the feminine as spirit, but because of gender duality. As I studied Jung & Neuman, I became comfortable with my body as a masculine woman- as Met brings up, not really gender conforming based upon societal norms. Just what worked for me and has held true for many years.

11-30-2010, 09:13 PM

this is in regards to reincarnation. when i was young and furthur into my youth, i was convinced i was a boy. i was born 3 months premature. a friend of mine who has degrees in things metaphysical and who has studied the eastern religions extensively, says that i jumped the gulf too soon. in my past life i might have been male or at least an amazonian dyke. but despite lessons from school on anatomy and getting my period (what a shock!), i remained convinced in one way that i was male. oddly enough, i accepted the role in my family's matriarchal tradition that i was female but somehow that co-existed with the notion that i was also a boy. i remained bi-gendered through college, despite being attracted primarily to butches. never to biologically BORN males. to FtMs, yes. but i never acted as a butch, even though my dress was androgenous or almost male. unless a person paid attention to my voice or my gestures (very femme), they would assume that i was a teenage boy. then came my epiphany! one day in my mid-twenties, i wandered into this boutique that sold FLAX and FLAX-type woman's clothing. despite myself, i tried on a blue natural fabric skirt and shirt. i looked in the mirror. something went, "click." i bought them and several other articles of clothing-dresses, skirts, etc. i went home and kept looking at myself in the mirror. YES! i WAS a girl! finally my gestures, voice and appearance harmonized! iwas NOT a boy-i was a grrl! i called my best friend and told her i was wearing a dress. she came rushing over to see for herself. she had been trying to tell me over the years but never could convince me that i was in fact a femme. now i believed, i believed. THAT was the reason i could not swagger! THAT was the reason the my hand around a tea-cup resembled a mudra! THAT was the reason that despite my boyish appearance, butches looked at me knowingly-and that i loved their knowing look! i never became a high femme or even a classic femme. i was always the bohemian, in natural fabrics but now dresses, now perfume...i still don't know how i turned out femme instead of butch. buti did and i am and oh, so glad! thank Tao, Goddess, Universe that i am femme and butches always knew!
that is my reincarnation story!
pres

swagger · 12-04-2010, 05:10 PM

Great thread. First I thought "no" then laughed hard at myself. I reject mascuine and feminine as gender labels. I'm a buddhist. And that's pretteh damn pomo and label-shy *grin*

So actually - YES!

08-09-2010, 08:05 AM	#42
Jett Member How Do You Identify?: Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: she loves my shaggy hair Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination Posts: 1,028 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,054 Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Speaking from my perspective, in my personal identity only. As far as reincarnation, (and all purely in a hypothetical sense) when I was younger the thought crossed my mind that it would be likely if it existed that I was male in my previous life... my lady has made the comment as well. But that said I think it's perfectly natural for many people to be born with and/or develop strong dual energies that seemingly contrasts with bodily sex by societal standards . These days I would say- again hypothetically- that if I had a past life it's just as likely I was gender non conforming... or fluidly gendered then too as I believe gender fluidity is natural thing and not a state of confusion created by a "spirits" or "souls" being binarily gendered and randomly tossed around (reincarnated) in different sexed bodies. In other words I think it's society's pushing the (socially constructed) binary from day one that makes a fluid gender seem confusing to a person who is outside of what society deemed the only two norms. In my life I've had a lot of struggles with "what am I". Speaking in the language available, within I'm distinctly of dual energy, yin and yang with a masculine slant in most areas and outer shell... yet it doesn't really trump the female energy, or outer markers... in most ways they are balanced and they are also one. How has spirituality affected my views of my gender? I'm not sure it has. Only perhaps from my spiritual perspective and beliefs my "gender" feels simple, whole and natural, it's only from a societal, and human language perspective does it feel awkward. Not sure I'm hitting on the mark of what you were asking for here Nat, but it's the first thoughts off the top of my head after skimming the thread (I'm pressed for time today). Interesting thread (thumbs up), Metro __________________ .......... In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus

11-30-2010, 09:13 PM	#44
HoneyedChrysanthemum Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	Re: reincarnation: how am i femme? this is in regards to reincarnation. when i was young and furthur into my youth, i was convinced i was a boy. i was born 3 months premature. a friend of mine who has degrees in things metaphysical and who has studied the eastern religions extensively, says that i jumped the gulf too soon. in my past life i might have been male or at least an amazonian dyke. but despite lessons from school on anatomy and getting my period (what a shock!), i remained convinced in one way that i was male. oddly enough, i accepted the role in my family's matriarchal tradition that i was female but somehow that co-existed with the notion that i was also a boy. i remained bi-gendered through college, despite being attracted primarily to butches. never to biologically BORN males. to FtMs, yes. but i never acted as a butch, even though my dress was androgenous or almost male. unless a person paid attention to my voice or my gestures (very femme), they would assume that i was a teenage boy. then came my epiphany! one day in my mid-twenties, i wandered into this boutique that sold FLAX and FLAX-type woman's clothing. despite myself, i tried on a blue natural fabric skirt and shirt. i looked in the mirror. something went, "click." i bought them and several other articles of clothing-dresses, skirts, etc. i went home and kept looking at myself in the mirror. YES! i WAS a girl! finally my gestures, voice and appearance harmonized! iwas NOT a boy-i was a grrl! i called my best friend and told her i was wearing a dress. she came rushing over to see for herself. she had been trying to tell me over the years but never could convince me that i was in fact a femme. now i believed, i believed. THAT was the reason i could not swagger! THAT was the reason the my hand around a tea-cup resembled a mudra! THAT was the reason that despite my boyish appearance, butches looked at me knowingly-and that i loved their knowing look! i never became a high femme or even a classic femme. i was always the bohemian, in natural fabrics but now dresses, now perfume...i still don't know how i turned out femme instead of butch. buti did and i am and oh, so glad! thank Tao, Goddess, Universe that i am femme and butches always knew! that is my reincarnation story! pres

12-04-2010, 05:10 PM	#45
swagger Junior Member How Do You Identify?: butch daddy Preferred Pronoun?: i dont care. Relationship Status: happy Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: crush zone Posts: 57 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 43 Thanked 126 Times in 42 Posts Rep Power: 210972	Great thread. First I thought "no" then laughed hard at myself. I reject mascuine and feminine as gender labels. I'm a buddhist. And that's pretteh damn pomo and label-shy grin So actually - YES! __________________ unapologetically butch

08-09-2010, 05:05 PM	#43
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Personally, my seeking explanation, comfort, self-knowledge brought me to Jung very early and the Great Mother of Neuman as a spiritual base. Both fit together for me not only in the concepts of unconscious archtypes of the feminine as spirit, but because of gender duality. As I studied Jung & Neuman, I became comfortable with my body as a masculine woman- as Met brings up, not really gender conforming based upon societal norms. Just what worked for me and has held true for many years.