Swedish Parents Keep 2-year-old's Gender Secret

[Soon]

Nat had originally posted this article in her thread, Gendering of the Young, and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion.

I am also curious as to whether people agree or disagree with the parents' decision.

Here is the article:

Swedish parents keep 2-year-old's gender secret

Pop’s parents [see footnote], both 24, made a decision when their baby was born to keep Pop’s sex a secret. Aside from a select few – those who have changed the child’s diaper – nobody knows Pop’s gender; if anyone enquires, Pop’s parents simply say they don’t disclose this information.

In an interview with newspaper Svenska Dagbladet in March, the parents were quoted saying their decision was rooted in the feminist philosophy that gender is a social construction.

“We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother said. “It's cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.”

The child's parents said so long as they keep Pop’s gender a secret, he or she will be able to avoid preconceived notions of how people should be treated if male or female.

Pop's wardrobe includes everything from dresses to trousers and Pop's hairstyle changes on a regular basis. And Pop usually decides how Pop is going to dress on a given morning.

Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child – they just say Pop.

"I believe that the self-confidence and personality that Pop has shaped will remain for a lifetime," said Pop's mother.

But while Pop’s parents say they have received supportive feedback from many of their peers, not everyone agrees that their chosen course of action will have a positive outcome.

“Ignoring children's natures simply doesn’t work,” says Susan Pinker, a psychologist and newspaper columnist from Toronto, Canada, who wrote the book The Sexual Paradox, which focuses on sex differences in the workplace.

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local.

“It’s unlikely that they’ll be able to keep this a secret for long. Children are curious about their own identity, and are likely to gravitate towards others of the same sex during free play time in early childhood.”

Pinker says there are many ways that males and females differ from birth; even if gender is kept ‘secret,’ prenatal hormones developed in the second trimester of pregnancy already alter the way the child behaves and feels.

She says once children can speak, males tell aggressive stories 87 per cent of the time, while females only 17 per cent. In a study, children aged two to four were given a task to work together for a reward, and boys used physical tactics 50 times more than girls, she says.

But Swedish gender equality consultant Kristina Henkel says Pop’s parents' experiment might have positive results.

“If the parents are doing this because they want to create a discussion with other adults about why gender is important, then I think they can make a point of it,” Henkel says in a telephone interview with The Local.

“You can talk about there being a non-stereotypical gender; if you are a girl you can do the same as a boy, and if you’re a boy you can do the same as a girl.”

Henkel also says a child's sex can deeply affect how they are treated growing up, and distract them from simply being a human being.

“If the child is dressed up as a girl or boy, it affects them because people see and treat them in a more gender-typical way,” Henkel explains.

“Girls are told they are cute in their dresses, and boys are told they are cool with their car toys. But if you give them no gender they will be seen more as a human or not a stereotype as a boy or girl.”

She says that without these gender stereotypes, children can build character as individuals, not hindered by preconceived notions of what they should be as males or females.

“I think that can make these kids stronger,” Henkel says.

Anna Nordenström, a paediatric endocrinologist at Karolinska Institutet, says it’s hard to know what effects the parents' decision will have on Pop.

“It will affect the child, but it’s hard to say if it will hurt the child,” says Nordenström, who studies hormonal influences on gender development.

“I don’t know what they are trying to achieve. It’s going to make the child different, make them very special.”

She says if Pop is still ‘genderless’ by the time he or she starts school, Pop will certainly receive a lot of attention from classmates.

“We don’t know exactly what determines sexual identity, but it’s not only sexual upbringing,” says Nordenström. “Gender-typical behaviour, sexual preferences and sexual identity usually go together. There are hormonal and other influences that we don’t know that will determine the gender of the child.”

Both Nordenström and Pinker refer to a controversial case from 1967 when a circumcision left one of two twin brothers without a penis. Dr. John Money, who asserted that gender was learned rather than innate, convinced the parents to raise 'David' as 'Brenda' and the child had cosmetic genitalia reconstruction surgery.

She was raised as a female, with girls’ clothes, games and codes of behaviour. The parents never told Brenda the secret until she was a teenager and rebelled against femininity. She then started receiving testosterone injections and underwent another genetic reconstruction process to become David again. David Reimer denounced the experiment as a crushing failure before committing suicide at the age of 38.

“I don’t think that trying to keep a child’s sex a secret will fool anyone, nor do I think it’s wise or ethical,” says Pinker. “As with any family secret, when we try to keep an elemental truth from children, it usually blows up in the parent’s face, via psychosomatic illness or rebellious behaviour.”

But with a second child on the way, Pop's parents have no plans to change what they see as a winning formula. As for Pop, they say they will only reveal the child's sex when Pop thinks it's time.

Footnote: Pop is not the child's real name but is the name used in Svenska Dagbladet's interview with the child's parents from March 6th.

Lydia Parafianowicz (news@thelocal.se)

[PearlsNLace]

WOW. I know I have grown up in an instant gratification culture- I desperately want to fast forward, and see where this childs story goes.

Thank you for sharing!

[Soon]

“Brave Girls, Tender Boys. ‘We Talked with the Girls and Gave the Boys Orders’”

Boys take initiative and test boundaries. Girls are responsible and kind. This is at least the adults’ conception. But it does not have to be this way. At the preschool “Björntomten” outside of Gävle boys and girls are encouraged to evolve unknown sides of themselves. Ingrid Borggren went there.

http://www.intercultural.ro/theogs/f...ender_Boys.pdf

[suebee]

As much as this intrigues me and interests me to see what the outcome will be, as we have NO idea how this will affect the child, I doubt I'd ever consider it for a child I was responsible for. I'll be interested to know what other people have to say about this.

[Nat]

I almost think the impact on adults and other children will be stronger than the impact on the kid. The kid isn't being kept from the knowledge of hir own anatomy. I don't think the impact on the kid could be that bad - definitely not as bad as it is for transkids to have gender shoved down their throats. And the experiment may turn out well. If I had an intersex kid, I would try my best to do something similar. I would love for gender to be less important in the future, though I do wonder if this kid's gender issues will be amplified rather than diminished by the experiment. It's a huge challenge to adults and other kids to refuse to identify the kid's gender - I definitely think the parents have courage for trying it out.

[ruthie14]

As a teacher of preschoolers for 28 years I can say that I disagree with the parents. No matter what gender the child actually is, children interpret things quite differently than adults. When you ignore some facet of thier basic person, the child usually will internalize this as "something is wrong with my gender because my gender is not addressed" with negative consequences. While I understand pop's parents concerns, I think this is not a postive way to handle it. You can raise a child to make non gender choices ie pink vs blue.. without hiding who they were born genetically. The exeption in my mind, would be a child born with both male and female genitalia. In that case I would wait for the child to show which gender he/she truely is before consenting to surgery. ( i know of a family that this happened to and this was how they handled it. Very successful. ) I have seen many families and children over the years and I can tell you that some parents are sensitive to thier children and some are not. I have seen parents that allow thier children to play with toys that are sometimes considered boys vs girls, wear any colors they want... clothing styles... games and playmates, etc. I know of a mother who lets her daughter wear boy clothes, caps, play baseball etc. The mom is NOT gay... this is not her first child. But she in tune with her daughter and allows her to be herself. I know another little boy who has told me more than once that he wants to be a girl. His mother is also very attentive and I know is helping him on his journey. Just my 2 cents from my experiences. No offense to anyone who believes differently.

[Diva]

Well.
THIS is intriguing.

On the one hand.....what a gift. To the parents.
Will the child be home-schooled? Because I can see a potential dilemma arise when it's time to visit the loo.

I believe that right now, the parents are living in a smug little world where they have control. It will soon change. If not now, if not kindergarten, then surely by puberty.

And there will be another box of issues.......

It will be interesting to follow.....and I wish the child well. The next one, too.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

WOW. I know I have grown up in an instant gratification culture- I desperately want to fast forward, and see where this childs story goes.

Thank you for sharing!

Oh my, I HAVE changed... your post made me realize this, Pearls. There was a time when just like you I would have wanted to know right away what would happen. But it isn't so important to me to know right away.... I'm content to let this one take its time and work itself through, and I'm willing to put my curiosity on hold until the story is finally completely told. How interesting!
~~~~~~~~

It's very interesting about Pop, too. My immediate thought was "Intersexed in some fashion" because I seriously don't get the feeling Pop's parents are on a personal crusade to TeachTheWorldAThingOrTwo---but I DO get "protecting our child" vibes really strongly. It will be really interesting to watch this story unfold and see where it goes, see if I'm right or wrong about the parents, see what choices Pop makes in life... oh and that first "expert" the article quoted, who said that children always play with those of their own sex? Somebody PLEASE introduce her to a Butch or three, m'kay?

[suebee]

I was at a take-out restaurant last week and just happened to be sitting at the picnic table next to the playground equipment. A cute little girl came up and started playing and struck up a conversation with me. A few minutes later another child ran up and started playing with her. They looked very much alike but I didn't know if the second child was a girl or a boy. When they introduced themselves it turned out they were twin sisters - identical. One preferred pink and purple, the other always wore black. One loved frilly clothes, the other wore only boy's clothes. And the little pink-clad girl recounted all this to me as a matter-of-a-fact. I met the mother about fifteen minutes later (when the girls and I were OLD pals! ) and her attitude was that her daughters were who they were, and she had no reason to encourage them to be other wise. She was a GREAT Mom!

Just about then my girl - wearing her brown and black "boy's" clothes came back to the table. I introduced the girls to her, and she took the hint. She told them that she too preferred boy's clothes, and in fact she knew twin sisters who were much like them: one wore girl's clothes, and the other boy's clothes. It was great!

By the way, the girls are starting school this year, and will be in different classes, and they're fine with that.

Back to the OP's story: the more I think about it the more I think that the parents have a specific reason for doing this - one related more personally to their child rather than the principle of not pre-defining what gender means to him/her. And let's face it, at some point either neighbourhood kids or kids at school are gonna want to play "show me yours....." and the secret will be out. I think they risk making it a great challenge for others to find out what the great secret is.

Interesting situation though.

[julieisafemme]

Really interesting discussion! Ruthie I appreciate your input. I had not thought of it that way. Kids do interpret things differently than adults.

I answered that I agreed with the parents but I don't think it is my place to judge how they want to raise their child. I don't think they are being abusive or hurting the child.

I don't believe that Pop will grow up without any ideas about gender though.

What do you think Jo?

[Bit]

That's interesting about the twins, Sue. We have friends who have a pair of seven year old girls--one always dressed to the nines even in play clothes, and one always in jeans and a t-shirt; one with her hair always curled or styled, one with straight hair she does nothing with. If they were seventeen instead of seven, I swear one would always be wearing make-up and the other, nevereverever, lol...

The sad thing is that one of them DOES get flack from her folks.... but it isn't the boyish looking one, oh no--it's the young glamour girl!! Surprised me a lot. They backed off some after I stood up for her.

[ruthie14]

The sad thing is that one of them DOES get flack from her folks.... but it isn't the boyish looking one, oh no--it's the young glamour girl!! Surprised me a lot. They backed off some after I stood up for her.


Good for you bit... you would be surprised (or maybe not) I was... how much flack I get from other lesbians. Strange isn't it. I love my nail polish and my sundresses and I get told I can't tell you how many times, that I should just "give up that butch femme thing if I ever want to find a woman". REALLY??

Sorry to get off topic... struck a chord... I digress

[Bit]

Well actually, Ruthie, I was a very girly person early on, and ran smack into what I call the Birkenstock Years, when Lesbians turned en masse against everything patriarchal... so being ridiculed for being "too feminine" "too girly" and "buying into the patriarchy" are all part of my life too.

What was really ironic for my young friend is that her parents are a heterosexual couple. I just never expected that reaction from them, yanno? I MOST especially didn't expect it from anyone who would name her children variations on a name that translates as "good girl" lol.... "here, let me give you this incredibly gendered name which is LOADED with societal expectations... but hey there, don't you live up to it!" lol...

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Bit

.... "here, let me give you this incredibly gendered name which is LOADED with societal expectations... but hey there, don't you live up to it!" lol...

I discussed this with Stearns the other day.

How do people feel about naming their children with really gendered names when, as members of this community, we know that some went through their lives loathing the names they were assigned at birth?

-------

Julie,

I am not avoiding answering the question. I had started writing a response but I wasn't satisfied with it, so I am sitting on it for awhile.

As far as the poll, I voted *agree*--will elaborate later.

------

Thanks to all who voted or responded. I find it very interesting to mull over the various implications of their decision.

[Nawen]

I had a long post thought out last evening, but it kinda disappeared in the early morning , so I'll keep it short.

It seems that Pinker presumes that the child is being raised sexless, while it seems to me it is only being raised genderless.
I got from this story that the parents are open with their child as far as its sex is concerned.
They are giving it options, not pushing him into dresses or pants but offering both.
They have also said that they will disclose sex when Pop wants to. So if Pop, at 6, decides to wear dresses and is a male... they didn't push him for 6 important years into something he doesn't want. If Pop chooses clothes that fit into its sex+gender stereotype, fine, too. (+ Pop's a child - s/he doesn't know that we, adults, see this cut of fabric as feminine, and this, with a stitch between legs, as masculine.)

I think it's important to take some more things into account.
- This is Sweden.
(Not necessarily this or that, just... different. It's interesting for me to see how their experts are either pro or 'not sure'.)
- This is a new generation.

The David/Brenda case.
For me, it doesn't stand. The comparison might, the likening doesn't.
The child's sex was taken from him and he was made to live as opposite.
Pop: the sex is Pop's and Pop is given a choice, presented both. Or none, too, I guess.

I don't think Pop's intersexed, because the parents said they'll do the same with the second child.
Doing the same to the second if they were just protecting the first would seem too much, no?
I don't know what the chances are for two children to be both born intersexed.

I think it's also important to view some things like this:
- Pop may be special, later in life, but maybe not because Pop was given a choice, but because others weren't. (I can't explain it much better at this time, but I think about it like this: some kid, Alex, is not weird because s/he has a dog, but because all the other kids in the neighbourhood have cats. There's nothing wrong with having a dog per se and to think there is, just because Alex will feel 'out', isn't right. It's not about the dog, it's about groups.)
- If Pop grows up to be a sad person, it shouldn't be blamed on this.
- If Pop grows up to be a happy person, it shouldn't be blamed on this. (And I think the former is more likely to garner attention and blaming, unfortunately. In both cases it should be examined what part of Pop's happiness is linked to this and just that part be blamed on it.)

This is, of course, just my take on things.

Thank you, Nat, for putting this story up, and HowSoonIsNow for making it into a topic. I really enjoyed reading all these responses in both threads .

Edit: Well, not so short in the end, it seems .

[morningstar55]

Originally Posted by ruthie14

The sad thing is that one of them DOES get flack from her folks.... but it isn't the boyish looking one, oh no--it's the young glamour girl!! Surprised me a lot. They backed off some after I stood up for her.


Good for you bit... you would be surprised (or maybe not) I was... how much flack I get from other lesbians. Strange isn't it. I love my nail polish and my sundresses and I get told I can't tell you how many times, that I should just "give up that butch femme thing if I ever want to find a woman". REALLY??

Sorry to get off topic... struck a chord... I digress

.. if i had a nickel for everytime i heard that same thing from my lesbian and str9 friends.... ooYY......
great story and topic.. How.

[Sachita]

perhaps in a perfect world.

I disagree. rather then deny any gender identity, homeschool and teach better values based on freedom from labels and social structures. If I had a child today I would home school and carefully be involved. Yesterday a friend and mother said if she were a new mother today she would be a better mother, knowing more. I agree because I've journeyed this and know. you can teach better. Teach them dont confuse them and make them stand out oddly.

very interesting tho

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Nawen

I don't think Pop's intersexed, because the parents said they'll do the same with the second child.
Doing the same to the second if they were just protecting the first would seem too much, no?

Hi, Nawen!

I think it's absolutely necessary to do it with both children in order to protect Pop (if that's what they're doing; it's just my supposition) because if they treat the second child differently, Pop will suddenly stand out like a sore thumb inside the family. If the parents are taking the tack that gender is a decision made for adulthood, and then they gender the second child at birth, Pop will suddenly know there's something wrong with Pop, yanno? Not only that, neighbors, curious onlookers, and the media will be on it like bees on honey, saying "what's wrong with Pop? There must be something wrong"--so there would go all protection for Pop right out the window.

[cane]

Originally Posted by Diva

Well.
THIS is intriguing.

On the one hand.....what a gift. To the parents.
Will the child be home-schooled? Because I can see a potential dilemma arise when it's time to visit the loo.

I believe that right now, the parents are living in a smug little world where they have control. It will soon change. If not now, if not kindergarten, then surely by puberty.

And there will be another box of issues.......

It will be interesting to follow.....and I wish the child well. The next one, too.

Diva,

in Sweden you don't have the option to home school your children, we see it as a question of democracy.

and... in swedish schools there are no boys- and girls loos, there are just loos....

[Laerkin]

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this. If the parents are doing this as a way to encourage Pop to explore the world without typical constraints, then I think it's kind of cool (but I think the publicity surrounding the situation will influence Pop in other ways).

If the parents are doing this as a political or social demonstration, then I'd say their heart is in the wrong place.

I agree with the other posts that distinguish between gender and sex. Sex is a very different beast than gender. Gender is fluid, ever changing, flexible, and grows with us as we take on new experiences and meet new people. If the goal is to allow Pop total freedom on this sliding scale, it's a radical but interesting concept. Imagine if all of us were told to try on any gender, situate ourselves in as many places along the gender spectrum as we want, until we find a place that feels like home - and we'll be accepted no matter what? Pretty empowering stuff.

Of course, as an adult it means something very different than it does for a toddler who can't possibly conceptualize these things.

I hope the parents don't go to such extremes that Pop ends up being an outcast within the community.

I do fully support the idea that gender is all about self-expression and self-exploration and it would be a hell of a lot easier to feel good about our gender if people weren't always trying to make us fit into THEIR idea of what we should be.

PS - I think the other story the doctors reference from 1967 is a ridiculous analogy. This is a case of genital mutilation (initially an accident, it sounds like). It's astonishing how prevalent medical genital mutilation is here in the States. Often times, girls born with clitoromegaly are treated with a surgery that cuts off some of the clitoris to make it smaller - leaving them with scar tissue and sometimes compromised sensation - all because a parent was uncomfortable with their daughter having a visible clit. Big fucking deal. Or children born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) - I've read stories of AIS cases when the parents choose a sex for their child by having part of their reproductive organs removed and later the child wants nothing more than to have had the choice. This is all very different from the case of Pop and Pop's parents. I think it's speaks volumes about the assumptions that these doctors are making when they compare flexible gender expression with something like non-consensual medical genital alterations or AIS individuals.