What makes a Butch "Butch"

[Morgan]

I have thought about this for a while and would like to hear from others on what they think makes a Butch "Butch".

Is it the walk, the talk, the swagger, the clothes or is it something inside...

Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird? I know plenty of Femmes' who can fix a car or do manual labor. Who can put on a pair of jeans and t-shirt and look just as butch as some butches, but can a Butch put on a dress and heels, go out for a night on the town and still be a butch?

I believe they can, because it is not what is on the outside, but what is on the inside....

I would love to hear from others on this subject.

Hell maybe I will try this experiment just to see...."no pictures please".

[blush]

His huge cock


*waiting for Lady Snow*

[Goofy]

Originally Posted by blush

His huge cock


*waiting for Lady Snow*

Really baby?

This is what happens when I spend too much time studying

[Corkey]

Repeat after me, clothes do not make the person.
Now go write it a thousand times.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Goofy

Really baby?

This is what happens when I spend too much time studying

No, not REALLY, and you have studying too much!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by blush

His huge cock


*waiting for Lady Snow*

I would of said


Her...

[Toughy]

by definition butch = female masculinity and the ability to fight (and loose gracefully) Snow over who has the biggest cock...........

[aishah]

i hate identity policing. i tend to take people on their word based on how they self-identify. to me, the clothes should not make the butch anymore than they make the femme, but i think femmes have a lot more freedom in wearing clothing that's traditionally considered "masculine" than butches do in terms of how we are treated at least. i've been told i'm not "not femme enough" plenty of times, but i feel like there's even more of a stigma against a butch dressing in ways that are deemed "feminine."

i like the idea of butch as female masculinity, but i also know many trans* male-id'ed folks who identify as butch (including my partner) and definitely don't identify with "female."

to me, femme is queer/subversive feminine identity. i know a lot of folks don't necessarily like the word queer, but in the sense of "not heteronormative" or "self-defined" or "radical" or "subversive" i think queer masculinity might also be one way of understanding butch. i know some people feel that butch and femme are gender identities and some people feel they are performative (and so there are normative ways to perform them)...for me, i see them as identities that can be performed in any way - so what you wear doesn't necessarily change the id.

edited - i just realized this is in the butch zone, i hope it's okay that i've posted here. apologies if i am speaking out of turn. <3

[bright_arrow]

I think part of it is the outside appearance. We judge, observe, based on what we see. While that does not make a person, sometimes it is what we base perceptions off of.

When I think of the word 'butch', the way they walk come to mind. You know what I mean, right? 'The walk'. Something about it just makes my heart beat a little faster

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

[musicman]

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

THIS.

It's like asking a tree what makes it a tree.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird?

If a butch chooses to wears a dress and heels hy/she isn't dressing 'like a femme', hy/she's dressing like a butch who likes dresses and heels.

Nothing weird about it.

Words

[princessbelle]

I am certainly not butch but what makes a butch to me is simple..

If someone says "I'm butch", then, they are butch. Period. Nothing else matters. If you stand in front of me with high heels on and beehive hair and say you are a butch, in my eyes, you are a butch.

Self IDs have become so important in my life over the years of learning and listening. If someone says they are male...they are male. If someone IDs as femme, they are femme.

We have the right to be whatever we want to be. And on top of this, it can evolve and grow and change. It is really beautiful to me.

It's simple really, or at least it is how i see it.

[firegal]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

I,m with you on the bad drag queen,My past partners/gf,s have all loooked so damn sexy in my shirts... but i,m thinking that me in theirs might not get the same reaction.Their is humor in this statement but also i really believe it has some truth to it.

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

THIS.

It's like asking a tree what makes it a tree.

I agree! I cannot tell you "why" I identify as femme-I just do.

Additionally, I think it is easier to identify with someone based on their energy than it is their wardrobe. Yes, the wardrobe does provide clues but what if the clothes suit the situation more than they do the person? (I used to date a singer who donned what she referred to as "femme drag" to be in plays although she identified as "genderqueer.")

Just my random thinking...

Edit to add:

As far as this, "Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird," I think it is stereotypical to presume that one should present in a way that goes against their personal nature/style just because the world expects them to look a certain way.

[Quintease]

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

I love my honey in a bikini...top and bottoms! Of course she played water polo for years so she has those broad swimmers shoulders. I appreciate the rainbow of varieties that butches can come in...ALL people for that matter! To me it is all about respect, both for yourself and others, and checking your judgement at the door.

[Quintease]

I too am a fan of bikini tops. Not that you get to see them much in this impossibly cold country that I'm in.

[starryeyes]

Yesterday when I was driving to work, I was at a stop light. I was looking arous and spotted a cute butch in a jeep. Short crew cut, baseball hat, sweatshirt... Typical bucth presentation. When the light turned green, she put her hands on the steering wheel, and her fake nails were longer and more glittery than mine. For a sec I was like... Maybe she wasn't a "butch"... But then I was like, you go! Be who you wanna be. If you wanna dress up like a femme one night and go out on the town, do it! If you wanna dress up in a suit and tie the next, do it! We only live once and the best part of life of self expression. No one can change who you are inside.

Hugs

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by desd

I think part of it is the outside appearance. We judge, observe, based on what we see. While that does not make a person, sometimes it is what we base perceptions off of.

When I think of the word 'butch', the way they walk come to mind. You know what I mean, right? 'The walk'. Something about it just makes my heart beat a little faster

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

ETA: I think it's the energy. Period!