Did the Pakistan government know Osama bin Laden was there?

[rockybcn]

Originally Posted by Words

And what's with people THANKING those using the word Paki in their posts?

REALLY?

For me the word Paki...is only a shortening of the word. I didnt use it to be disrespectful AT ALL...sorry if I offended anyone.Its just shorter to write out. In fact,...if you knew me you would know I am a peacemaker,not a warrior. I am opposed to all war and all murdering. When people were celebrating Osamas death..I was appalled. Murder is never something to celebrate. Yes,he got his justice. You live by the sword,you die by the sword. But never is it something to celebrate. It saddens me that innocent people have lost their lives because of this. I just know that most likely many more lives will be lost in retaliation. The rage in some men and women can be brutal when they have been threatened.

[Gayla]

I admit that the use of "Paki" threw me off. It's not something I've seen before so I had to google. I understand shorting things is sometimes easier but everything I found said it's pretty much a racial slur. Most of what I saw was in reference to it's use in the UK, so I get that it may be different for other countries but it just "sounds" offensive to me, if that makes sense.

[Semantics]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

Isn't it great to be an American? You can have your opinion, I can have mine. Unlike Iraq under Sadam where saying what you think got you beaten, shot and tossed into a mass grave. Or just being born Kurdish got you planes flying over dropping mustard gas killing your entire family. My point is, America supports many countries around the world. We have the biggest stick. Good for us. I say if these countries that we are supporting do not like our politics, go to hell. They know what they are getting into. They come to us with their hand out, then want to complain? Pfffff.

Do you know where the "big stick" reference originated? Roosevelt didn't make it up but he made it famous, and the entire phrase is "speak softly and carry a big stick".

Let's not forget the speak softly part because it's just as important.

Let's also not forget that we go to other countries with our hands out. This thread is about Pakistan so I'll use them as an example. We may give them money but we don't give it away for free. We use their airspace. We use their resources. We use their intelligence. We use them, period.

Are they always loyal to us? I doubt it. Did they know Osama bin Laden was there? It appears they probably did.

The question is: so what? I've heard global politics called a giant chessboard and I find that analogy inaccurate. In chess there are two colors, black and white, and the pieces are 100% your friend or 100% your enemy.
Sometimes we have to be satisfied with someone being our ally some of the time because it's better than none of the time.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Words

And what's with people THANKING those using the word Paki in their posts?

REALLY?

Honestly i was one of them. i saw where he/she was jostled. Felt sorry for them. i withdrew it when i reread. i still read more fear than hatred there.

Words, you have lived places where there were daily conflicts and hostilities between immigrants and others. This is less the case in the U.S. A friend of mine immigrated from Egypt and attends Mosque in Oakland. He did not come here because he always wanted to live in the U.S. or for economic reasons. He lost ground economically. He came here for a girl.

True he is living in the Bay Area, but he and his fellow immigrants are stunned by the lack of personal hostility they experience compared to being in Europe, for example.

i have lived somewhere where darker skinned immigrants habitually get picked up by the police for no reason and are exposed to other forms of racism. But day in and day out, we do not have communities detesting each other and taking frequent opportunities to express it.

i think of Hamtramck in Michigan. There is some hostility between the Arabs and the white Detroiters. There have been battles over noise made by the Muezzin calls from Mosques. And i have no doubt many residents have racism and hatred in their hearts. But walking down the street, is anyone going to get jostled by anyone? Are there frequent racial slurs hurled? Is there vandalism of other people's property? No. On a daily basis, an Arab neighbor helps an aging Polish woman to take out her garbage. The Polish woman watches the Arab neighbor's kids as they get off the bus to make sure they get home OK, etc.

The U.S. is a violent country. We are racist. We are backward in some ways compared to Europeans. We do have a long way to go re immigrants and immigration. Witness the town where the police tried to get rid of all Latinos. Witness the recent legislation in Arizona. There are hositilites in some communities. But the cultural racism so common is Europe is not the norm here. Not in a million years would we ban wearing the veil. And in communities where people see it alot, most people don't give it a second thought. (Thinking again of Detroit). And i don't doubt the vast majority of people would fight for people's rights to wear whatever garb their culture and religion required of them. i do not see Americans through rose colored glasses. We elected Bush twice. We are intensely racist in our way. But our way is different from Europe's. And in some ways it is less hostile toward people for being who they are.

Maybe it's our ignorance and happy wappy nature. But when we encounter an Egyptian, we don't necessarily assume we know who he is and what he is about. We are not closed off to meeting him where he is and getting to know what he has to say. We care if he's happy here. We want him to feel at home. Most of us do. And that IS different than the experience of an Egyptian immigrant to Germany or France.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by gayla

I admit that the use of "Paki" threw me off. It's not something I've seen before so I had to google. I understand shorting things is sometimes easier but everything I found said it's pretty much a racial slur. Most of what I saw was in reference to it's use in the UK, so I get that it may be different for other countries but it just "sounds" offensive to me, if that makes sense.

I don't think I've ever heard "Paki" as a British-only racial slur. It's commonly used here as well and I find it hard to believe that those who used it were completely unaware that it's a racial slur against Pakistanis and other South Asians. Especially in the extremely negative and derogatory context it was used in.

It's just as much a slur and just as offensive as using other supposedly oh so convenient shortenings of ethnicities/nationalities like "jap" and "spic."

[Kobi]

It's very difficult to come to reasonable conclusions in matters
like this considering the level of misinformation, outright lies,
distortions of truth, and the economics which give impetus to many
of the odd decsions that are being made by our leadership over the
past few administrations.

Politics and economics make for strange bedfellows. Yet what one
must say or do publicly vs what one says and does behind closed
doors can give rise to erroneous beliefs and emotions in the people
leaders are supposed to be helping, protecting, liberating, etc. and
in us as citizens of the USA.

Who can say with any degree of certainty who are our allies and who are our enemies.....today.....
because it can change tomorrow. For the "war on terror", if there ever was one, to continue,
leaders have to continue to promote those things which provide the fuel
for it ....hatred, mistrust, negative imagery, the ever-changing line up of bad guys/countries, fear etc.

It is a vicious circle and cycle that we are involved in....we meaning the world.
And it is not going to be solved with the death of one person, or
a change of leadership, or by bombings, or by bravado, or by blaming.

We have had an odd association with Pakistan for a long time. Yet,
Pakistan is the newest source of cheap labor for American manufacturers.
I didnt know that until I bought some clothing and noticed the
"Made in Pakistan" label. So, we are exploiting another improverished people.
Yet, in exploiting them, we are also helping them. Economics is a very
powerful motivator and a double edged sword.

And, I, for one, am very disappointed in the way Obama and his administration handled this.
How it was handled was what I expected from Bush/Cheney not Obama.

And that was a long winded way of saying, I would be hard pressed to believe Pakistan
didnt know where Osama was. But, it is certainly politically advantageous
to all parties that it unfolded in a certain way.

And, considering what the USA has done in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya,
and now Pakistan, I would expect the Pakistani people from all parts
of the world to be a little concerned about what comes next. And,
I would expect they would feel threatened, regardless of where they
are, for their own safety.

As for us Americans....time to stop buying into all the bullshit that
is handed to use on silver platters. And time to hold our leaders
accountable for the crap they are doing in the name of freedom.

[Apocalipstic]

The house they keep showing on TV and pictures does not look like a million dollar home...did it before the Seals? Is Pakistan way expensive?

Did the Pakistani government know? I have no idea. Probably some members of gvt did, but that does not mean the leadership did, if it is anything like what goes on in the US.

Words, the US is split pretty much down the middle on this and most subjects.

Detroit seems pretty racist to me not just with Arabs.

There are many Muslim US citizens.

I am sick about all the civilians the US military has killed and am not sure how to mentally process the US's continued meddling (ie killing) outside the US.

[Rope]

I believe that it took this long to work out a deal with the Pakistani government, yes, they knew. The deal being how much money was the U.S. going to pay them. Hillary was over there visiting for some reason...

Yeah, Americans be a little sensitive to the racial slurs. I've told foreign students for years that the best way to learn English is to be LIKE an American but they certainly didn't have to BECOME an American.

Rope--

[Martina]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Detroit seems pretty racist to me not just with Arabs.

There are many Muslim US citizens.

Detroit is as racist as any other U.S. city.

i can say i have never felt seriously out of place in African American neighborhoods in Detroit -- unlike in Boston and Chicago. Detroit is a mess. It is a dying city. But it is amazingly and bizarrely creative. It is not the worst city in America to live in despite what you read in the news. It may be in the worst mess in a number of ways. Racism -- white flight -- is responsible for a great deal of that. But it is not defined by racism or poverty or any of that. In some ways, it is one of my favorite places on earth. i miss it.

By the way -- Detroit has the largest concentration of Arabs outside of the Middle East.

Most of us here do not have a clue what it is like to live in a European city where there is that kind of daily anger and hostility in the air between strangers of different ethnic groups. Rocky is an American living there. My sense is he is fairly shocked by it. He does seem to have taken some of the racist attitudes to heart -- the tax comment. But it's really easy for us to preach when we aren't living it. How many people have lived among Arabs and worked with them daily and lived side by side? i have. And there was no hint of the anger and hostility so common in France and Germany. My friend from Egypt reports the same experience from the other position -- as an Arab immigrant.

Since 911 it has gotten much worse for Arabs living here. But it's still a real life, a life with a future. It is not a life lived as a permanent outsider in your own home. That is true for many Arabs living in France.

i am not here to defend the U.S. re racism or its treatment of immigrants. i teach Latino students, and one of my students is living alone at 17 because her parents got caught in a raid and were deported. She has a kidney condition, and it has been hard to get her medical care. (It happened.) i have no illusions about how little American values people it deems outsiders. But i also know that the facts are that it is a different experience to live in European cities. There is a lot of intepersonal hostility. Much more of an effort by the nations themselves to disenfranchise even the native born children of immigrants. It's just a fact, not a defense of U.S. culture or policy.

[Strappie]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

So it's okay for people to use Pak?? God I hope we don't start using the N word.. cause I will RUN as fast as I can from this site.

I find this completely OFFENSIVE!

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

Ignorance abounds.........

by the way..........Alex Jones is an ultra-right wing idealogue and a conspiracy junkie...........why in the hell would anyone read his lies????

[Toughy]

Did the Pakistan government know where bin Laden was hiding ..............shrug...........maybe some folks in the government did and some didn't.

Did we violate Pakistan's ground and airspace? We have been bombing the Pakistan/Afghanistan border for months now with the permission of Pakistan. President Obama publicly said we would go in and get bin Laden and he said it often.

I'm completely sure Pakistan officials knew we would send in a team at any time to get him if we knew where he was.

It's a moot point as far as I am concerned. The thing that is good is that we didn't bomb the fuck out of the area his compound was located and created lots of civilian casualities, no intelligence/information, and possibly not killing him. This was quick, clean....in and out with minimal damage and lots of intelligience/infomation found.

Concerning one of bin Laden's wives and child(ren) seeing him get a part of his head blown off. The wife knew what could happen if she lived with him. She did not have to be there, nor did the children. I'm not likely to shed a tear or have a second thought about her seeing him get killed.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by June

Are we at war with Pakistan? No.

Why are we flying drones over their country and killing innocent civilians? Does it make it okay because they are "different" than "us" (White citizens of the US).

We would all be outraged, I am sure if our family members who went to work every day and were just trying to survive and raise their kids were killed by a bomb while sleeping, eating dinner or having family time.

They are human beings, just like "us". They are not "Terrorists" they deserve to raise their families in peace.

This LUMPING together of entire nations and religions as Terrorists is so disgusting to me. I know it must make it easier for some folks to wrap their heads around what the US is doing, but it's false.

Does anyone who posts here really think that all Muslims are terrorists? Do you have the balls/ovaries to state it here plainly rather than wrapping it up in a pretty package of excuses and regurgitated propagandist pablum?

And talking about the tax structure in Spain as a way to promote bigotry, Rocky? As though everyone from Pakistan is immigrating to Spain in order to "stick it to them". If I am not mistaken, you're an immigrant there too, right? I believe we had that conversation over dinner one night a few years ago before you left to be with the woman you loved. Is that any different than people moving there to join their families and loved ones? If so, tell me why.

The USA was built over the backs of indigenous peoples and on the backs of "imported" slaves (They didn't have the privilege to immigrate or not).

I am always astounded that "we" forget that bit of history. The Europeans who came here were for the most part escaping religious persecution or seeking a way out of a feudal system that would never allow them to be successful. I'll bet a lot of them started out with fruit stands too. Was it okay for them to do it because they were white?

When I visited Germany a few years ago, one of my sons friends went on a rant about the "Turks" People from Turkey who had been actively recruited for cheap labor to rebuild the country after the war. Guess what? They stayed and built families and communities there. Now that the work is done, the white Germans don't want them anymore and feel resentful that they stayed in "their" country.

Kind of like we did with the "imported" Chinese people (often stolen in the middle of the night and brought here by force) who built our railroads for extremely meager or no wages. They also stayed here and built families and communities and suffered the same kind of racism that is facing the Turkish people in Germany, even though many of them are now 2nd and 3rd generation Germans.

I don't see the difference between two men who happen to also be of Pakistani descent walking by you and elbowing you or two men in a big truck covered with Confederate Flags and bumper stickers proclaiming "Never apologize for being white" who would also elbow you or worse if they happened to pass you on the street and pegged you for Queer or "Other". Bad and bigoted people come in all races and religions.

Let's start with treaties throughout US history with Native American peoples, Chinese Exclusionary Acts, Alien Enemies Act.....

In terms of Pakistan and Osama bin Laden- I really have no idea who knew and when. What I do care very much about is what this all means in terms of our (speaking as being from the US) how parts of the world view us.

I agree (think Toughy brought into context) that Pakistan could not be under any illusions that the US would act if bin Laden was within our sights.

I haven't felt any jubilation about this because to be honest, I am tired of daily reports of someone being killed in the world due to a connection to 9/11- from troops to civilians. I see no reason for gloating.

We have a very tense relationship with Pakistan as well as the entire Muslim and Arab world. My hope when Obama was elected was that maybe, just maybe we would have a president that could at least get us going in the direction of mending fences with these countries and people. On the other hand, Obama did exactly what he said he would do- if we had bin Laden in our sights in Pakistan, he would order taking him out. So, maybe I had my head up my rear. Or, was naive. On the other hand, many in the countries so troubled with US interventions are sending kudos our way. What is to be made of this?

News today points toward more violence.... more violence and killing. I do think that terror cells will retaliate. Although, their goals have not changed since before 9/11.

I could become jubilant if I could have hope that we are headed to a place in which the killing stops. I don’t see this happening

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Martina

Most of us here do not have a clue what it is like to live in a European city where there is that kind of daily anger and hostility in the air between strangers of different ethnic groups. Rocky is an American living there. My sense is he is fairly shocked by it. He does seem to have taken some of the racist attitudes to heart -- the tax comment. But it's really easy for us to preach when we aren't living it. How many people have lived among Arabs and worked with them daily and lived side by side? i have. And there was no hint of the anger and hostility so common in France and Germany. My friend from Egypt reports the same experience from the other position -- as an Arab immigrant.

Since 911 it has gotten much worse for Arabs living here. But it's still a real life, a life with a future. It is not a life lived as a permanent outsider in your own home. That is true for many Arabs living in France.

I think this post is a bit extreme when it comes to portraying the life of immigrants as a whole in Western and Central Europe (Eastern Europe is a different matter altogether) in comparison to what they face in North America, particularly where you describe daily anger and hostility. I am both a Canadian and European citizen and have lived in Bavaria, one of the more conservative regions of Germany (though when you compare it to the conservatism I've witnessed in North America, it's not really comparable) and found that the experiences of the many immigrants I knew there were pretty diverse.

At one point I worked at a small café where I worked and lived along side a Polish woman and a Slovenian woman. One was my age (20/21 at the time) and the other a few years older. Both women had been migrant workers at this same place for a few years before I got there, and were doing it to make money to bring back home. They were being exploited as much as any migrant worker in North America is.

At the same time I was acquainted with a Bulgarian guy also in his 20's who had started off a migrant worker, but eventually came to own his own internet café/movie rental place and was going to school as well. There is still stigma toward Eastern Europeans in Germany because of German/Polish history in particular, which is slowly but surely changing. And that is the issue primary issue in Europe: centuries of history. And that is one issue that straints German/Turkish relations, the history of both nations during the last century, as well as foreign (particularly American) intervention in Turkish/German relations throughout the last century.

On the other hand, I was friends with a Peruvian guy who moved to Germany for a better life since his father lived there, but his father ended up refusing to help him out in getting started, so he had to learn German on his own and found it hard to get out of low wage restaurant jobs. Whereas a Brazilian guy I was acquainted with came to Germany on a visa and within four years was working for the Volksbank. It all depends.

But the stigma toward these migrant workers and their situation and opportunties are not really different from what migrant workers face in the US and, increasing more recently with our wonderful PM, Canada. Also, I think the public is more aware of the plight of migrant workers in Germany than in Canada, for example, which is one of the positives about Germany: generally more socio-political awareness and activism.

When comparing the lives of migrant workers and the opportunities available to them with those of German-born youth of Turkish or other non-German ethnicities, I would say that the latter have far more opportunities. Certainly it was extremely difficult for their parents and the older generations who did not have citizenship as a whole and who faced a lot of discrimination, but for young people things are much easier and they are far more accepted in German society than their parents were, probably because the attitudes of young Germans have also changed a lot over the years.

I think part of it has to do with how the education and health care systems function in Germany, the Benelux and Northern Europe. As citizens they have the same access to universal health care and cheap to free post-secondary education (and as time goes on, more and more gain access to it by finishing secondary school), which provides them with better futures regardless of the socio-economic standing their parents held. I'd say in that respect they have more available to them than many North Americans. Older immigrant generations have a tendency to either alienate themselves or be alienated in society, in a similar way that many older immigrant groups in North America do, whereas their children typically feel as much a citizen as anyone else (unless it's the World Cup ). On that topic, the prominence of German-born athletes of Turkish descent has probably helped things over the years. Footballers like Mesul Özl and Hamut Altintop, or half-German half-Spanish footballers like Mario Gomez are as beloved as other football stars of ethnic German descent. Just look at the way both Özl and Müller were equally praised rookies for their performances. Then compare them to Eastern Europeans playing for German teams...there are not many, and those who do are usually of German descent/Germans that immigrated to the East in past centuries and either expulsed during the Soviet years or returning after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I'm not aware of efforts by the government to disenfranchise German-born youth of Turkish descent, but feel free to go into detail. There was the problem over a decade ago with gaining German citizenship (requiring at least one German parent even if the child of immigrants was born in German), but that was changed a while ago so that the children of immigrants gain citizenship.

That isn't to say there aren't some people who are hostile towards Turks or Germans of Turkish descent...but whether it is "worse" than in North America is rather debatable. Comparing the treatment of Turkish migrant workers to Mexican and Central/South American migrant workers or migrant workers anywhere there is not much difference. In my opinion what you've written is an exaggeration of the hostility of the average German towards those of Turkish descent.

If you want to talk about systematic discrimination against a given group, the Roma are a far better example...very similar to how First Nations peoples are treated throughout North and South America, except that because the Roma have no "claim to the land" the way First Nations do, they are frequently deported and berated.

If I were to rate German acceptance of those of foreign descent it would be less accepting than Canadian or Dutch urban areas, but generally more tolerant than what I've seen expressed by many American news sources and from what I've experienced as far as many (not all) American sentiments towards the "unAmerican." When it comes to public and media response to the "threat of terrorism" it was far less frantic, paranoid and prejudice than the American media like CNN and Fox...that much was fairly evident. I would also add that I see Germans and the German government as more accepting than France in general.

But there is still probably more distrust of Eastern European Slavs and Roma than other groups, I would say.

[EnderD_503]

I also wanted to note that when discussing Europe it's important to distinguish which laws affect which nations. France banned the niqab, but this was not an EU-wide ban by any means. Québec did so as well in certain public spheres.

Before that there was outrage that they were banned from schools, but all religious clothing/symbols are banned from French schools (including Christian crosses). Secularism is a prominent part of French culture, and on the one hand I can see the concerns raised by some in French society over the discrimination of women that demands women wear burqas or niqabs.

Personally, I outright oppose the ban, not because of issues of "religious freedom," (admittedly I view religion as a largely oppressive force) but simply because it only perpetuates the alienation of victims rather than educating them and punishing their oppressors, and those women will be less likely to educate themselves or gain employment. The ban attacks the symptom instead of the cause. Secularism must be the result of education in the case of remnants of oppressive religious-based traditions.

Interesting article on the mixed views throughout the Muslim community:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...overnment.html

[Martina]

i am basing it mostly on what Arabs have told me about living France and to a lesser degree on a series of articles i read in the Times a while ago. Films too --- showing harrassment in schools. i read a lot about France. i haven't been in years, and i have only been as a tourist. i have never lived there. God, i have read and heard about Arab families, admittedly from North Africa, who three generations later are not much more integrated into French society than their parents. Arabs in Detroit are diverse, but most are more educated than many of the immigrants to France have historically been. So that explains some differences.

i was thinking about the one parent has to be German issue you mentioned. i guess that was longer ago than i realized.

i think if you talk to ordinary Americans about difference you get a view that may not agree with the impression you get if you live among them. People aren't educated. They are prejudiced and often racist.

How they treat their neighbors often does not always reflect that. And that is what i have seen in Detroit, particularly in East Dearborn.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Martina

i am basing it mostly on what Arabs have told me about living France and to a lesser degree on a series of articles i read in the Times a while ago. Films too --- showing harrassment in schools. i read a lot about France. i haven't been in years, and i have only been as a tourist. i have never lived there. God, i have read and heard about Arab families, admittedly from North Africa, who three generations later are not much more integrated into French society than their parents. Arabs in Detroit are diverse, but most are more educated than many of the immigrants to France have historically been. So that explains some differences.

Yeah, France is a bit of a different issue, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Martina

i was thinking about the one parent has to be German issue you mentioned. i guess that was longer ago than i realized.

I think they changed that in 2000. Now anyone born in Germany automatically receives German citizenship regardless of their parents nationalities. Also, residents not born in Germany can apply for citizenship after residing there for 6-7 years if I remember right, but unless they have a German parent they cannot hold dual citizenship so it requires that they give up their previous citizenship.

[BullDog]

Obama said during the 2008 presidential campaign that if Pakistan was unable or unwilling to get Bin Laden that we should go in there and get him. He fulfilled the promise he made. They did it as efficiently as possible. We could have had McCain running the ship instead.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Obama said during the 2008 presidential campaign that if Pakistan was unable or unwilling to get Bin Laden that we should go in there and get him. He fulfilled the promise he made. They did it as efficiently as possible. We could have had McCain running the ship instead.

Personally, I have a hard time with assassinations, period- and that has been part of my somberness and struggle with this. There is also the dimensions of being closer to the NYC 9/11 attacks wearing on me. My first choice would have been to take him alive and try him not only in the US, but in all countries he had a hand in terrorist murders. I honestly don’t want this to lead to more suck “operations.”

I agree with what you say here in terms of the "warning" and something I have been thinking about is that bin Laden knew full well he was a marked man, yet, he had his wives and kids with him! Says quite a bit about his fanatical narcissism as well as how he felt about women. Also, his cultural make up.

I believe that most of us would "hide" without our loved ones with us. Although, my guess is that women/wives were only around for sex, having his kids (hopefully sons) and to wait non him. Sons were to be with him to learn his philosophy and become warriors for the "cause."

I don't know the ages of all of the children that were there. And I am appalled that a parent would expose them to such danger. Parents (as well as spouses) are supposed to protect loved ones. Then again, I know I am worlds apart from this man culturally. Not even close in terms of these kinds of values.

[BullDog]

I would have preferred him to be taken alive as well, but I am not sure how feasible that was without him surrendering willingly. I see things being run much differently under Obama than they were previously or would have been under McCain. I don't see this as revenge. I see it as a demonstration of at least partial competence in dealing with a terrorist leader- that our Intelligence, Commander In Chief/President and Military worked in unison to get the job done. It wasn't perfect. There are no easy solutions to difficult problems. We could have not pursued him, but I am not sure what good that would do. For those critical of what has taken place I am wondering what they would do instead.