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Old 12-07-2018, 01:09 PM   #1
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Default 2020 Presidential Election

It's time.

First concern: Elizabeth Breunig (WaPo Opinion pages) tweeted "everyone saying 'coordinated attack from Bernieland [on Beto]' better be able to put their money where their mouth is" in response to a dude claiming people "view Beto as a threat to Sanders 2020 prospects."

I voted for both of them and i am not trying to discuss whether the claims of a coordinated attack are true or whether concerns about Beto's history and connections are valid...

i am asking "how do we not do this again?"

How do we not fracture in the face of fascism again?

If the answer is "the Dems have to not put up a capitalist/cop/warmonger again" what is the plan for when they inevitably do? When they put up Kamala Harris (cop), Eric Holder (cop), Joe Biden (warmonger, sexist).

Who is going to be the Jill Stein or the Green Party? Is there a DSA candidate?

I will start helping them now AND help Joe Ohnopleaseno Biden
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_crystal View Post
It's time.

First concern: Elizabeth Breunig (WaPo Opinion pages) tweeted "everyone saying 'coordinated attack from Bernieland [on Beto]' better be able to put their money where their mouth is" in response to a dude claiming people "view Beto as a threat to Sanders 2020 prospects."

I voted for both of them and i am not trying to discuss whether the claims of a coordinated attack are true or whether concerns about Beto's history and connections are valid...

i am asking "how do we not do this again?"


How do we not fracture in the face of fascism again?

If the answer is "the Dems have to not put up a capitalist/cop/warmonger again" what is the plan for when they inevitably do? When they put up Kamala Harris (cop), Eric Holder (cop), Joe Biden (warmonger, sexist).

Who is going to be the Jill Stein or the Green Party? Is there a DSA candidate?

I will start helping them now AND help Joe Ohnopleaseno Biden
i have to admit i'm so desperate to not have another round of Trump i'd vote for(just about) anyone else...notwithstanding, your descriptions of current democratic candidates, make my stomach turn..i don't want a milder version of Trump..i want someone totally different..i don't want a Soviet lover(ie, Jill S) either..no,no god no!!...so i have (about) two years to figure it out..i will read this thread with interest and try to stay calm-thanks
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:40 PM   #3
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I'll let them fight it out as long as they don't cheat. I would vote for Kamala, but not Corey Booker and certainly not Eric Fucking Holder, the man who wanted the right to assassinate US citizens on American soil. If I am healthy enough to campaign, I will campaign for Bernie. I will certainly donate to Bernie. I would also vote for Elizabeth Warren. Biden is better than Obama was, but he's a mainstream Dem. But if he wins the primary, I'd vote for him. If Hillary were to get the nomination this time, I would not vote for her again. I'd just leave it blank.

People who start attacking progressives can kiss my fat white ass. Trump needs to go, but it's on the Dems to field a candidate who is not a corporate pawn. BTW, Corey Booker is.

Edited to add: I would also like someone who can kick ass. Sweet little Bernie can. Kamala can. Warren can. I think Biden can. Holder can, but he's a piece of shit. Corey Booker has kissed way more ass than he has ever kicked.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:30 AM   #4
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Bernie was my guy the last Presidential election but i reluctantly voted for Hillary. She lost my vote, and my respect, when she stated Monica Lewinsky wasn't a victim of abuse of power because she was an adult.

i waver on who i want to back in 2020 because i think we have so many good options, but i also know the bar is set really, really low.

Biden has the experience to hit the ground running and the relationships to help heal some of the destruction currently happening.

Warren may make a good President but she is also needed where she is.

Others i am watching are Castro, O'Rourke, and Bernie.

Oh how i miss Obama.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Martina View Post
I'll let them fight it out as long as they don't cheat. I would vote for Kamala, but not Corey Booker and certainly not Eric Fucking Holder, the man who wanted the right to assassinate US citizens on American soil. If I am healthy enough to campaign, I will campaign for Bernie. I will certainly donate to Bernie. I would also vote for Elizabeth Warren. Biden is better than Obama was, but he's a mainstream Dem. But if he wins the primary, I'd vote for him. If Hillary were to get the nomination this time, I would not vote for her again. I'd just leave it blank.

People who start attacking progressives can kiss my fat white ass. Trump needs to go, but it's on the Dems to field a candidate who is not a corporate pawn. BTW, Corey Booker is.

Edited to add: I would also like someone who can kick ass. Sweet little Bernie can. Kamala can. Warren can. I think Biden can. Holder can, but he's a piece of shit. Corey Booker has kissed way more ass than he has ever kicked.
Ass-kicking: YES. I liked Beto for Texas but he is way too cute and cuddly for POTUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
Bernie was my guy the last Presidential election but i reluctantly voted for Hillary. She lost my vote, and my respect, when she stated Monica Lewinsky wasn't a victim of abuse of power because she was an adult.

i waver on who i want to back in 2020 because i think we have so many good options, but i also know the bar is set really, really low.

Biden has the experience to hit the ground running and the relationships to help heal some of the destruction currently happening.

Warren may make a good President but she is also needed where she is.

Others i am watching are Castro, O'Rourke, and Bernie.

Oh how i miss Obama.
YES. I have only voted for any Clinton two times (92 general, 16 general) out of six chances (92 primary, 92 general, 96 general, 12 primary, 16 primary, 16 general), so my expectations were always low, but she can fuck all the way off after that Lewinsky comment.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:16 PM   #6
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I think Hillary is more qualified than any other contenders and, if she runs again, she will most likely get my vote before anyone else ... particularly Biden. The best I have to say about Biden is that he’d be better than the current occupant in the WH.

As usual, I will vote for the Democratic nominee—whomever it is, even if i have to hold my nose while doing it, but my preference is a woman or a person of color.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Martina View Post
I'll let them fight it out as long as they don't cheat. I would vote for Kamala, but not Corey Booker and certainly not Eric Fucking Holder, the man who wanted the right to assassinate US citizens on American soil. If I am healthy enough to campaign, I will campaign for Bernie. I will certainly donate to Bernie. I would also vote for Elizabeth Warren. Biden is better than Obama was, but he's a mainstream Dem. But if he wins the primary, I'd vote for him. If Hillary were to get the nomination this time, I would not vote for her again. I'd just leave it blank.

People who start attacking progressives can kiss my fat white ass. Trump needs to go, but it's on the Dems to field a candidate who is not a corporate pawn. BTW, Corey Booker is.

Edited to add: I would also like someone who can kick ass. Sweet little Bernie can. Kamala can. Warren can. I think Biden can. Holder can, but he's a piece of shit. Corey Booker has kissed way more ass than he has ever kicked.
Why Bernie, if I may ask?
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:05 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by dark_crystal View Post
It's time.

First concern: Elizabeth Breunig (WaPo Opinion pages) tweeted "everyone saying 'coordinated attack from Bernieland [on Beto]' better be able to put their money where their mouth is" in response to a dude claiming people "view Beto as a threat to Sanders 2020 prospects."

I voted for both of them and i am not trying to discuss whether the claims of a coordinated attack are true or whether concerns about Beto's history and connections are valid...

i am asking "how do we not do this again?"

How do we not fracture in the face of fascism again?

If the answer is "the Dems have to not put up a capitalist/cop/warmonger again" what is the plan for when they inevitably do? When they put up Kamala Harris (cop), Eric Holder (cop), Joe Biden (warmonger, sexist).

Who is going to be the Jill Stein or the Green Party? Is there a DSA candidate?

I will start helping them now AND help Joe Ohnopleaseno Biden
Leading Bernie Bro: I’ll vote for no one else but Sanders
‘Chapo Trap House’ host sparks online ire for pledging to not vote if Sanders loses

The hosts of the podcast Chapo Trap House are no strangers to sparking controversy online, given their anti-establishment tone and stridently left-wing takes.

But a post by host Will Menaker last night is drawing ire, where he pledged to refuse to vote for anyone but Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the 2020 election, should Sanders lose the nomination.

“I won’t vote for anyone but Bernie in the general, can’t say what the hundreds of thousands of people who listen to my show will do, but I’m only speaking for myself. Just something to consider,” he wrote on Twitter

There it is. My worst nightmare and the whole reason i started this thread the on day i did

BUT

i'm not going to spend any time crying about how shady this is. i'm going to spend my time begging and pleading for everyone to for god's sake just obey the loud white man. I am not even being satirical with that, i am fucking terrified
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by dark_crystal View Post
But a post by host Will Menaker last night is drawing ire, where he pledged to refuse to vote for anyone but Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the 2020 election, should Sanders lose the nomination.

“I won’t vote for anyone but Bernie in the general, can’t say what the hundreds of thousands of people who listen to my show will do, but I’m only speaking for myself. Just something to consider,” he wrote on Twitter[/INDENT][/I]
There it is. My worst nightmare and the whole reason i started this thread the on day i did

BUT

i'm not going to spend any time crying about how shady this is. i'm going to spend my time begging and pleading for everyone to for god's sake just obey the loud white man. I am not even being satirical with that, i am fucking terrified
Don't be terrified. Well, don't be terrified of that anyway. Bernie bros refusing to support the democratic candidate is not the reason the dems will lose the election. It's not the reason Trump won in 2016 and it's not the reason Trump will win again in 2020. Check out his approval ratings.They are the highest they have ever been and this is in the midst of an impeachment hearing. Lots of people love him. Bernie's supporters are not the reason we will have to bear another 4 years of this idiot. Bernie bros are not alone in cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Political groups across the spectrum have well documented tantrums when they don't get their way. I had hoped the DNC would find a candidate who has a chance to win this election and support him or her. But they have sold their souls to the devil (or maybe it's corporations hard to tell difference sometimes) and if the candidate they want can't win so be it. And they have the kind of power that Bernie supporters do not, check out how they have gummed up the works so far. We are supposed to believe what happened in Iowa was just one of those things. Better to appear incompetent than evil I guess. They are the real threat to throw this election. Be terrified of that.
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:15 AM   #10
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Ugh I shouldn't have looked. I am not going to be held hostage by the Bernie Bros. The last person on earth I would ever vote for in the Primaries is Bernie Sanders. If he wins the nomination, of course, I will be forced to vote for him and then brace for the landslide Chump victory.

I am sick and tired of Sanders and the toxic segment of his supporters (not all of his supporters) trying to destroy the Democratic party.

The conspiracy theories about the app really need to stop. Wishful thinking on my part. No one would manufacture this sheer incompetence.

I have voted in many places and the volunteers are almost always over the age of 70. So you are going to introduce a new app and not have enough phone support and have a ridiculous amount of math and complex rules to calculate the results and you think it's going to go fine?

Plus the rules were being violated right on TV - according to the rules, in the realignment people who were not originally viable weren't supposed to get to become viable on the second round. People were joining together to make someone viable. Way too complicated.

The Iowa Democratic party and DNC are to blame but there is no bloody conspiracy. Also, Sanders is the one that wanted the extra numbers reported - which complicated a ridiculous complicated process even further. He likes caucuses when he likes them and then when he doesn't he tries to turn them into a semi-primary. No matter what happens everyone is against him. Waaaa.

There is no bloody conspiracy. Knock it off. Sounds like Trumpers. If someone wanted to design an app for nefarious reasons they would claim it was working great and feed it bogus results - not tell everyone it was broken and have a paper trail.

Why does a little all-white state with a ridiculous caucus get to have so much sway on the primary process anyway, followed by another all-white small state with a primary? It sucks. NH can easily be mucked up by "independents" (Trumpers) voting in the primary to vote for whoever they think is least likely to beat Trump.

Trump can definitely be defeated but right now I don't see any good candidate that can. Beyond frustrating. It's definitely not Sanders.

God I should never have looked. Over and out.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:21 PM   #11
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God I should never have looked. Over and out.
I agree with you on this. I don't know what possessed me. Out of here.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:51 PM   #12
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Well, according to Rachel Maddow, it looks like there may have been some Trumpsters jamming the phone lines in Iowa. So that might have actually been at least partly why people couldn't phone in their results.

To me, phoning in results doesn't seem super reliable either, but I guess that's how they have always done it before the new app. But results still don't appear to be totally right even though they are 100% in now - probably wouldn't affect the delegate counts. Get rid of the caucus.

I am annoyed at both Buttigieg and Sanders trying to declare they won. Buttigieg on the night of - with no results in - and then today Sanders trying to claim victory based on the popular vote from the first round - this is a caucus not a primary. Dudes you tied, quit being dishonest.
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:08 AM   #13
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There it is. My worst nightmare and the whole reason i started this thread the on day i did
I don't think it's going to be an issue. The odds are currently strongly in favor of a Bernie nomination. If that's the way it turns out, I am going to soooo love saying, "Vote blue no matter who."
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:33 PM   #14
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Leading Bernie Bro: I’ll vote for no one else but Sanders
‘Chapo Trap House’ host sparks online ire for pledging to not vote if Sanders loses

The hosts of the podcast Chapo Trap House are no strangers to sparking controversy online, given their anti-establishment tone and stridently left-wing takes.

But a post by host Will Menaker last night is drawing ire, where he pledged to refuse to vote for anyone but Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the 2020 election, should Sanders lose the nomination.

“I won’t vote for anyone but Bernie in the general, can’t say what the hundreds of thousands of people who listen to my show will do, but I’m only speaking for myself. Just something to consider,” he wrote on Twitter

There it is. My worst nightmare and the whole reason i started this thread the on day i did

BUT

i'm not going to spend any time crying about how shady this is. i'm going to spend my time begging and pleading for everyone to for god's sake just obey the loud white man. I am not even being satirical with that, i am fucking terrified
Will Menaker today:
If you support what I have been assured is the *same* agenda and would like to see Elizabeth Warren *somewhere* in the White House in 2021 and beyond, working for that agenda, you're best and only chance of that is voting Sanders and stopping Buttigieg RIGHT NOW. That it's.

Please, I beg of you, you can fucking own me into oblivion for all the churlish posts I've made about her and her campaign if you come through on this and help crush Buttigieg on Tuesday by coming over to Sanders.

Seriously, you can find all my old posts making fun of you and ram them down my fucking throat, quote RT them, do dog piles and coordinated harassment. Please, please prove once and for all that I am just a rich, privileged bro asshole and not right about you, this.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:56 PM   #15
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A lot of progressives are getting triggered by Iowa and Clinton's attacks. I have no interest in attacking Pete or Warren or Bloomberg even. I see more anti Pete stuff, but I don't think many Bernie supporters care. I think the DNC inspires more anger than any of the candidates.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:45 PM   #16
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Been reading about the DSA, seems it has fewer members than the Rotary Club.
When the shit hits the fan and being a "socialist" in America starts to have zero cachet and can actually get you hung and wont get you invited to a gallery opening...I'd bet on the Rotary.

The only Socialists I respect are the ones that live it and have lived it for years and will still be living it when it's no longer de rigueur to drink Manhattans, , Negronis, and hoist a Mimosa to Marx on Sunday mornings. No fun being a socialist when everyone else can be one. But till then drink beer and hope the poor notice.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:06 PM   #17
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I have no clue who Will Menaker is but no way.

Oh yeah, let the little woman step aside for the great man. I'm sure Elizabeth Warren's supporters who have heard all the Bernie Bros calling her a liar, Pocahontas, etc. will be "all in."

It's a long race. We've gone through 1 small white state that was a caucus and after NH is over, 2 small white states. That's it. Sanders isn't owed anything.

Biden has the most support among black voters, Warren is second and we have much more diverse states coming up. I couldn't find a quick link to the surveys but I saw on AM Joy that a YouGov poll for Democratic Candidate Preference among Registered Black Voters for January 2020 showed Biden 46%, Sanders 17%, and Warren 14%. For February 2020 it was Biden 43%, Warren 14%, Bloomberg 12%, Sanders 8%. Sanders dropped a lot. I'm definitely not ready to crown him king.

I'm not a Pete supporter - it's ridiculous to think you can go from being a mayor of a mid-sized city to President of the United States - but I am definitely seeing plenty of attacks from the Bernie Bros.

If I was someone who begs - which I am not - I'd be begging people to vote for anyone but Sanders so we can avoid a landslide Trump victory and not have the House and Senate dragged down as well.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:22 PM   #18
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Every poll for the last month and perhaps before has Sanders beating Trump in the general election.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0LLETTE View Post
Been reading about the DSA, seems it has fewer members than the Rotary Club.
When the shit hits the fan and being a "socialist" in America starts to have zero cachet and can actually get you hung and wont get you invited to a gallery opening...I'd bet on the Rotary.

The only Socialists I respect are the ones that live it and have lived it for years and will still be living it when it's no longer de rigueur to drink Manhattans, , Negronis, and hoist a Mimosa to Marx on Sunday mornings. No fun being a socialist when everyone else can be one. But till then drink beer and hope the poor notice.
Had to research DSA (DSA, what?), ok that milk toast group that merged with NAM in the early '80s. Now, I have a handle on what dilute mishmash there're talking about. Yeah, now I recall our Marxist Studies professors discussing NAM (pre-DSA) with disdain. Anti-USSR, Anti-bloc, anti-China, Cuba, and most of the progressive Central and South American movements, and inclusive of most Democratic (big D) issues without any credit to the history where from they sparked. Can't see much difference between them and the DNCC.

How can this group use "Socialist" in their name, even yet their manifesto. So, the word turns off some younger voters. They need to know of the people who fought, were tortured, and were killed paving the way.
The website mentions, "Christian Socialists," as being part of their coalition, a group is either one or the other, but are theoretically opposed. A true socialist or communist doesn't support a position that distracts or soothes people's suffering making them less aware of their plight.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:25 AM   #20
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Seems there are more varieties of "socialists":
Marxism–Leninism.
Mutualism.
Collectivist anarchism.
Anarchist communism.
Anarcho-syndicalism.
Ethical socialism.
Christian socialism.
Christian anarchism.
etc
than there are churches in Oklahoma where every guy with more than 100 sq feet to spare in the back 40 can build his own church and call it whatever he wants as long as it will fit on a billboard right beside the road.
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