Reactions to Embracing Your Femme(ness)

[The_Lady_Snow]

Blue I would like to share with you that after I read your post I screamed out loud and said OMG ME TOO!! I want you to know I not only SEE YOU! I HEAR YOU!! I too am a Femme who oozes and presents with masculinity within my gender!!!


I am so glad you found this venue because there are OTHERS just like you and I, there are Femme's here who can fry your bacon, wear heels, have long nails on weekends and can rock a pair of timberlands and levi's and ooze masculinity like it was honey dripping off a honey comb!!

I FEEL what you are saying about the deflection of insecurity coming off butches/transguys/femmes because you aren't a stereotypical version of Femme. I FEEL your frustration when someone dismisses your FEMME because of THEIR experience with a hetero tryst.

I'm 100% Femme each and every day of my life, I am too not defined by butch/guy or another Femme's ideal of what Femme should be!

I want to embrace you and welcome you to BFP because sister you are going to see that your Femme is our Femme and you are NOT invisible!!!!!!



Welcome!!!


PS

spritzer be who you wanna be, let your Femme flag fly the way you want it too!!!

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by Bleu

Thank you, spritzerJ for including this comment in your experience as it describes my state regularly these days.

I come from a long line of low-level military enlisted and garbage men. I relate to the men in my family much more than to the women. I was taught to survive in this world by a hand-to hand combat specialist. He was a Marine who was parceled out to Navy Seals and Army Rangers and Air Force pilots. He taught people how to kill face-to-face once all other options had been depleted. My body was raised by my mother, a sporty tennis player type, however, my spirit was raised by my father.

6’2” and chiseled he was man who could not embrace his own sexuality. He was remarkably strong yet simultaneously excruciatingly weak. As I look back on growing up and examine how I got to who/where I am today, I see that my father was the one who had the most impact on my psyche thus, I absorbed many of his traits. This sponging of my father was both good and bad. Mostly bad. I have fought his effects on me and ultimately had to find my true self on my own, as we all do. Still searching, by the way.

Okay, so sometimes I do curse like a longshoreman. I have found that this trait is usually a turn-off for many a butch and some of my femme sisters too. I love butches but I feel that butches are not attracted to me. Oh yeah, they are on the surface. I’m curvy, I look nice in a dress, wear heels on occasion (the right occasions) and wear make-up, blah blah blah. I like to do these things as I feel more comfortable in my own skin when I do. But, when it comes down to my need for intellectual conversation, or someone who likes my mind for what it is, someone who just “gets” me…nope. The butches run. Every single relationship I have ever had with a butch has failed miserably. This is not easy for me to reveal here on this website half-populated with butches, some who I think are attractive and whom I look forward to meeting in September or whenever. What I find ends up happening is that I sometimes clam up around people, butches and femmes alike, as when I allow myself to be just me, I feel I am rejected. I am so sick of feeling rejected by my members of my own culture. (I use the word feeling in the previous sentence because being may not actually be accurate and I can accept, and do recognize, that I am living in a world of my own perception.)

On the topic of the outside world and those who think I am straight by the way I look. I could give a f... (there I go again.) I don’t even feel accepted by my own culture, and I am way more concerned about that than whether or not some het at the grocery store sees me for who/what I am. What I don’t like at the grocery store is when I see a butch and try to catch their eye. They turn away and purposefully do not make eye contact with me…and this is a direct result of how I look. I am a femme stuck inside a soccer mom’s body and I am invisible to the people to whom I want to most be visible. I had one butch tell me it’s because I look so straight that I am shunned by the public butch. That too many butches-at-large have succumbed to a het woman’s experimental desires and melted at their deadly charms. Then they get hurt or feel duped and so they shy away from a public femme smile. Just a warm “I see you” smile. Holy hen shit, I don’t want to jump in your pants just because I smiled at you. But that is what it feels like to me, that I am shunned because I am femme. I am so presently, in my mind, femme that I find it hard to step outside myself at every moment and see myself the way the world might be seeing me at any given time. Sheesh, it’s exhausting. So, I feel rejected every time. Wah wah, f’in wah…right? Shut up, Bleu, no one wants to hear your whiney shit…

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

Blue,

I was going to quote a small part of your post but just couldn't snip any of it. Thank you for sharing!

When you talk about your father's role in your life I found myself shaking my head uh huh. My father was a controlling man who was also physically disabled. And the worse his disability became the more controlling he became. He taught me many things and I did to a degree adore him and paid a high price for such.

The invisibility blows. It is incredibly sad and frustrating when I give the nod and get nothing back. You know when you give each other the head nod, smile of I see you. I used to be able to do that when I was more plain jane/andro dressing and before I had a kid. Now forget about it. And I miss it, very much so. Achingly so. We've been in NH for a year now. We are still working on fitting in and it is going to be a while until we have time to seek out the queer community with dogged determination. So ya, the random "I see you" moments would really help.

I cuss like a sailor too. And it is a problem for some folks. They just don't expect it. I haven't had your butch rejection experiences. Yet right now I find folks really have rather tight cursing expectations but I attribute it to how "women" are supposed to sound and how people think elementary school teachers are supposed to talk all the time. Which is more rigid than I thought. I really just don't fit the mold there. And I am really happy I don't.

I am working on it the confidence in my version of femme that is just me. And learning to let it go when others struggle to adjust to my presentation as femme.

[spritzerJ]

And another thing....

the early omg i skipped the training bra reign them in experience... talk about sudden immersion into the world of boys/men commenting on your body publicly... I was not ready for that. It is a shock. I remember thinking to myself, um I was playing wall ball and now your talking about my boobs? I don't get the connection. After 3 recesses in a row of boobs derail wall ball games I stopped playing. It wasn't fun and I had no idea what to say, that I could say shut the f@#* up.

Must remember this lesson so I prep The General earlier.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by spritzerJ

And another thing....

the early omg i skipped the training bra reign them in experience... talk about sudden immersion into the world of boys/men commenting on your body publicly... I was not ready for that. It is a shock. I remember thinking to myself, um I was playing wall ball and now your talking about my boobs? I don't get the connection. After 3 recesses in a row of boobs derail wall ball games I stopped playing. It wasn't fun and I had no idea what to say, that I could say shut the f@#* up.

Must remember this lesson so I prep The General earlier.

Exactly, we get to learn from our experiences as young women who were not cookie cutter girls. We as parents (if you are a parent or a co parent) can prepare and tell our sons or daughters that they don't have to conform to gender assignments by other people and we can teach our sons that breasts are not just for manly/butch/guy entertainment nor should they deter women from physical activities!!

My father said to me early, boys like to take up space, you should never let them even your brothers, I don't and I do it LOUD be it verbal or by extending my body and energy. I am now as a Femme so comfortable in my gender (regardless of garb) that if I want I will engulf the room and claim my space respectfully.


My 30's were defining moments for me in my Gender journey, as a Femme I grew more into the masculinity, sexual, soft, power yealding creature I was meant to be. It's incredibly emotional to share with others like you (general) because it becomes this A-HA moment and so defining that there are Tops/Masters/Femmes/Women/Girls/Lesbians just like you!

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Bleu

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. I acted like a boy and I fought beside him with boys, as a boy. I was a transgendered child. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

Your post is not an easy one to clip, so I just took your last paragraph ....

You aren't alone. I can relate to your post on so many levels.

I was a tomboy when I was younger and when high school came around, I started feeling more comfortable in my femme skin. But my problem was that I couldn't be what most people categorize as "femme" because I love, adore and embrace the masculinity that exists within myself. It's what makes me who I am.

In the past, I've tried to femme it up, only to find that I was being pretentious and ultimately miserable. I found myself censoring things I say and do because I was making someone (and it was usually a butch, maybe a handful of femmes) feel more comfortable in their skin at the risk of losing my own. I couldn't do that anymore. It got to a point where I let my heart rule and lead me to where I am today - and I am very happy to have done that for myself.

I can be very femme, and at times, not so much. I am always presumed to be straight, and these days, even that doesn't bother me anymore. I don't let much define who I am let alone how femme I am or not in the world.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by spritzerJ

And another thing....

the early omg i skipped the training bra reign them in experience... talk about sudden immersion into the world of boys/men commenting on your body publicly... I was not ready for that. It is a shock. I remember thinking to myself, um I was playing wall ball and now your talking about my boobs? I don't get the connection. After 3 recesses in a row of boobs derail wall ball games I stopped playing. It wasn't fun and I had no idea what to say, that I could say shut the f@#* up.

Must remember this lesson so I prep The General earlier.

Mine grew overnight. I went from tee shirts to bra and was like, WTF??
So now the boys who considered me one of the boys is now looking at me like a girl.

Ack.

I was a boy with boobs, man.

[NJFemmie]

Here's a story I haven't shared too often ...

So, I was this tomboy, right? As far as all the boys on my block were concerned - I was one of the boys until my boobs started to sprout.

Wellll ..... I especially took notice to this the one day we all decided to play football, and the guys wanted me to be center. (You know, the person who is bent over ass high snapping the ball to the quarterback, just in case you weren't sure....) And guess what I feel? :/

Ugh.

The next time we decided to play, I decided to shove something down the front of my pants and insisted that *I* be the quarterback (because truth be known, I had a killer arm and my accuracy was far better...).

BOINK. How does it feel motherfucker??

Needless to say, I was not asked to be center anymore.

Looking back, i realize that day explains so many things. LOL

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Exactly, we get to learn from our experiences as young women who were not cookie cutter girls. We as parents (if you are a parent or a co parent) can prepare and tell our sons or daughters that they don't have to conform to gender assignments by other people and we can teach our sons that breasts are not just for manly/butch/guy entertainment nor should they deter women from physical activities!!

My father said to me early, boys like to take up space, you should never let them even your brothers, I don't and I do it LOUD be it verbal or by extending my body and energy. I am now as a Femme so comfortable in my gender (regardless of garb) that if I want I will engulf the room and claim my space respectfully.


My 30's were defining moments for me in my Gender journey, as a Femme I grew more into the masculinity, sexual, soft, power yealding creature I was meant to be. It's incredibly emotional to share with others like you (general) because it becomes this A-HA moment and so defining that there are Tops/Masters/Femmes/Women/Girls/Lesbians just like you!

Wow, definitely need to use your father's quote for The General and myself.

Thank you for sharing your defining moments so freely. They help me understand and begin to imagine what it looks like for me and how I can bring my self into space.

[aishah]

i'm so grateful for all the posts here, especially bleu's post and the responses to it. thanks medusa for starting this thread.

i grew up around a lot of really strong women. i was shamed for not being extremely assertive, and that sucked, but it also made me grateful for when i did begin to become more assertive and it made me recognize and appreciate the fact that i needed to learn that skill. i also had the benefit of the fact that my mother and older sister, though our relationships were/are not always perfect, were great role models for me as women (though they were/are both straight).

i came out as bisexual/queer pretty early on in high school and always felt silenced about that, like no one took me seriously, at least until i got to college. i mostly had relationships with straight men, sometimes queer men, and other feminine women. i was always attracted to butches and folks with other gender ids but never seemed to move past the friend zone. (i also didn't date much at all and tended to have serious relationships with people i was friends with first, though, which could be part of why.)

i never felt comfortable in my body, identifying as a woman, in relationships with straight men. it's hard to explain why. i think part of it is just from the sort of awkwardness of being queer in a relationship with a straight cisman. but part of it for me was not feeling like what i'd always known/been told about womanhood and femininity were really me. meeting other femmes and coming to learn the meaning of "femme" in disabled, poor and working class, and indigenous community/ies really helped me to come home to myself and to see my gender identity and expression in a more complex and true (for me) way. i think that's a huge part of why i consider femme to be my core gender identity rather than something that's tied up in how i look/act/dress/whatever. (i mean, i guess it is a bit of both, but i tend to speak of it as my gender identity rather than my gender expression because it's such a core part of how i understand myself in the world.)

on the other hand, i do still feel some awkwardness sometimes. even in the most accepting and down groups of femmes i've been a part of, there's still an aesthetic of how one is supposed to look/dress/wear make-up, etc. that i definitely don't feel i fit into most of the time. looking at pictures my friends have posted from femmecon, part of me wonders if i'm really "femme enough" to be at home in a space like that, and i do even feel a little bit of anxiety about the planet meetup. the "not fitting in" or the reason i don't express my femme-ness in that way is because of a few different things...financial limitations, comfort/access/mobility reasons, and just generally how i like to dress and be...i don't like to wear makeup, i wear jeans and t-shirts a lot, i physically can't wear heels on a regular basis, i'm not super glam. i think maybe a lot of it is stuff i've internalized and just overthink myself when i look around and see all these gorgeous femmes and feel a bit like an ugly duckling.

there are other things besides dress and presentation, though. i like to top and bottom. i am attracted to both butches and other femmes (and people of all other kinds of gender identities/expressions). i definitely have both dominant and submissive qualities.

i still don't really feel "seen" by butches i meet on the street or other femmes, lesbians, and queer women. femme invisibility sucks. i wear queer jewelry because i love it, but also because i like not being invisible one of the blessings i feel is that even though i may not look like a lot of other femmes in the group, i have felt pretty accepted by the femme (and more generally the queer) communities i've been a part of once people get to know me. and my partner now definitely sees me for who i am, and has since we first met.

[girl_dee]

i'd like to say i am completely enjoying this dialogue. THANK YOU!


For me i was always confused about who i am. i never liked so called girly things, well some. i would steal my brothers toys so i could play with fun trucks, race cars, erector sets and hammering things. When my father was building anything usually boats, i helped. i hated the man but wanted to do things like that so i learned early on what tools were what and how to change a carburetor. i love motors and machines, fishing and running the boat myself. i love power tools, my father actually gave me a ton of power tools when i got older.

None of these traits are typical *girl* traits. i did do stuff with girls, like bake and play dolls but that was not nearly as much fun as riding on the mini bike with my brother. i climbed trees for crying out loud... most girls my age were in frilly dresses and mortified by my playing in the dirt. i liked other girls like me! i still loved being a girl, but i didn't feel like my friends. My sister would think i was gross because i was so unlike most girls. i always felt like a tug of war going on inside.

When i grew older boys they found my behavior a challenge. Soooo i toned it down, i felt there was something wrong with me. i had to become more of a "girl". BUT i actually started to enjoy wearing frocks and make up. I still played and coached softball, went fishing, took things apart and played in the dirt but could easily take a shower and slip on a sundress and heels and be just as comfortable. Just like when i was a kid i embraced both *worlds*

When i was in my 30s and disconnected with my father, who i felt was a major reason i didn't come out when i knew i was *different* at an early age, like 3.. i fell in love with my femme side, and who i AM. Finding someone who embraced me that same way has been a challenge. Since my 30's i've been in the kink world too, so finding someone who embraces all that i am and my kink side too has been a challenge. i am convinced i have found the one and only person on the planet who loves me like i am, doesn't want to change me or be more or less of this or that. She is not challenged because she knows who SHE is. It works.

i've known butches who have felt challenged by my ways. One told me i took "her butch pride" away by my hooking up my bilge pump to my boat when it was storming. Well she didn't know how to and i certainly wasn't gonna let my boat sink. i was expecting a *way to go you saved the day* instead i got a scolding. Previous to that she told me she fell in love with me when i took her fishing for the first time, loved that i was independent and able minded. It's like "OMG I LOVE YOU!!! YOU ARE SO PERFECT FOR ME" ... then *ok change for me now*.


Another told me she was disgusted with me as a femme because i gut fish. They think it's cute that i like *tomboy* stuff, UNTIL they feel challenged. i learned that's not my problem, it's theirs.

it took me about 40 years to learn that.

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

The next time we decided to play, I decided to shove something down the front of my pants and insisted that *I* be the quarterback (because truth be known, I had a killer arm and my accuracy was far better...).

BOINK. How does it feel motherfucker??

Needless to say, I was not asked to be center anymore.

Looking back, i realize that day explains so many things. LOL

Hahahahahaa! LOVE THIS!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Aisha that's one reason I like going to BFP gatherings, it's a time for me as a Fierce Femme creature to display my plumage (hair, clothes,make up,shoes) it's my choice how much color, boldness, sexuality I'm going to display. If I go down to the coffee room hair nappy, looking like I just rolled out of a good fuck then I can because no one cares or they lookin' the same. I feel the same way in the forums the Femme I am isn't nor will it ever be defined by others comfort levels or lack there of!

[spritzerJ]

Femme enough? Butch enough?

Being enough is THE given in the equation, the provision we all have on our journey.

I've struggled with "the enough" and worth. Oh I have and do. If I know one thing when I feel like I know nothing it is that worth and being enough is the pivot point.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by spritzerJ

Femme enough? Butch enough?

Being enough is THE given in the equation, the provision we all have on our journey.

I've struggled with "the enough" and worth. Oh I have and do. If I know one thing when I feel like I know nothing it is that worth and being enough is the pivot point.

I feel when "the enough" is over looked and we don't claim our space the hierarchy of what is butch/woman/Femme/guy enough crappy stereotypical expectation blots our gender/presentation/label/person canvas!


It leads to a dangerous concept of competition mentality. Dislike!

[girl_dee]

Yaknow that makes me want to jump on top of this table and say *YES!!!*

i've had enough of the enough word too.

i'm enough for ME. i don't have to validate myself, my partner, my past, my anything. i'm SO over it, SO over it.

i can't change, i've tried, and for the first time ever, i don't fucking want to!

AND i am with someone who does not want me to change and stop being this way or that way, thank GODDESS because i would rather be alone that to keep hearing that i need to change to suit someone else's idea of what THEY want to be.

[spritzerJ]

I appreciate CajunDee's statement that in relationship now it works because she knows who she is (both she's ).

When you know who you are you share who you are. A person has a chance and choice to love and honor who you are. That is an amazing feat, a miracle. And it happens in relationships to of many types.

So this reminds me that my femme angst and my earlier problems with assumptions is my responsibility. To connect to myself and communicate who I am clearly.

[aishah]

am so grateful for the wisdom that's being shared about accepting/communicating who we are and recognizing that we are enough and that that validation can't/shouldn't come from outside.

i struggle with that a lot, and it's gotten a lot better as i've grown up, and i'm sure i'll continue to come to terms with it more. i think for me it's felt like a slow process (but really looking at it in reality it hasn't been all THAT slow). i'm just of the serenity NOW! mindset

i definitely agree that for me experiencing that validation with my partner in a relationship has been incredibly affirming and helpful along the journey.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Amen!! Cause the Femme spectrum goes wayyyy beyond who we fuck.love.date to as simple as who we fuck.love.date. We aré entities defined by such a vast number of things from the most complex to the simplest of tastes.

I love love love being Femme, I take great pride in that!

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by aishah

am so grateful for the wisdom that's being shared about accepting/communicating who we are and recognizing that we are enough and that that validation can't/shouldn't come from outside.

i struggle with that a lot, and it's gotten a lot better as i've grown up, and i'm sure i'll continue to come to terms with it more. i think for me it's felt like a slow process (but really looking at it in reality it hasn't been all THAT slow). i'm just of the serenity NOW! mindset

i definitely agree that for me experiencing that validation with my partner in a relationship has been incredibly affirming and helpful along the journey.

I am of the mindset that the struggle with worth is okay. I get to be gentle with myself when I struggle with it. My goal is to keep shrinking the interval between when I question my worth and when I remind myself that worth is the given until there is no interval.

You voicing your struggle with worth gives us the chance to challenge and hold a space of love for you. So thank you! Because it is beautiful to see you choose into your worth.

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Amen!! Cause the Femme spectrum goes wayyyy beyond who we fuck.love.date to as simple as who we fuck.love.date. We aré entities defined by such a vast number of things from the most complex to the simplest of tastes.

I love love love being Femme, I take great pride in that!

hee, hee! It is amazing how the conversation has gone to day. I am sooo grateful I could not find a pencil to do my work decided to be here instead. It was just what I needed.

I adore the simple complex spectrum of myself and who we are all together. I'm a sucker for a good dichotomy.