Ebola, news and discussion

[BrutalDaddy]

This is strictly my own opinion so I'm not basing this off any factual stuff found online or by listening to news media, the government or even CDC.

I can't listen to them right now. Why? Because I do not trust them. Why again? Because instead of letting people know the best things to do to protect themselves from the get go, all they said was, "Oh don't worry. There's no way Ebola will ever reach our shores."

Bullshit.

When it did reach our shores then it turned to, "Oh don't worry. The hospital is equipped to deal with this and are treating this seriously." Instead we find out that not only were the health care workers not properly equipped but obviously not drilled over and over and over and over on how to properly take off possibly infected clothing after dealing with the patient. On top of that, the ball got dropped by allowing "self monitoring" then giving the okay for one nurse who was possibly beginning to show signs to travel on a plane.

Bullshit number two.

Again, this is strictly my own opinion and my opinion is that until the CDC, the government and whoever else has actual, frontline knowledge of Ebola begin telling people in plain, straightforward English on the basic, fundamental things to do to protect themselves, I will continue to take most of what they say as bullshit.

I totally get and understand why they do not wish to "inspire panic and hysteria". I get it. It can lead to more damage and harm being done to those who aren't even sick with Ebola. But guess what? That can happen now, when people who are getting scared DON'T have the correct knowledge and education on this disease.

And while I'm on the topic, the government sure as fuck didn't help me to feel any safer or more confident that they'll start handling the ball instead of dropping it by naming someone who has NO fucking knowledge or skill in the field of medicine to head up and coordinate "the U.S. response to Ebola". Yes, he's got "great management experience both inside the government as well as the private sector" but what happens if, god forbid, this shit does blow up?

Bullshit number three, for me.

I sincerely hope with all of my heart and soul they prove my fears wrong. I really really really do.

Final point, education is key key KEY.

My Buck Twenty's Worth,
Brute.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by TruTexan

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze


As for me putting in Media relays, I'm putting those in from Dallas area, and just talking about what they are saying.

And for one thing, that damn hospital rep keeps saying if Duncan had walked in holding a damn sign saying that he had Ebola, they were prepared, and and they are still prepared........I CALL THAT BULLSHIT, look at what happened there already. Is this dude serious? He's a knuckle head.

Please no name calling.

I used Kelts post to respond to his thoughts, so he was right to think i was responding in part to what he said...i'm on an ipad and can't snip the part i want to respond to, so maybe he felt i was jumping on him.

I want discussion here, but because we can't see people or their tone of voice, it is easy to assume anger or nastiness. I just want to voice my fears, read what's written, listen to other opinions and sort through all of it to find reassurance and peace in my heart.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

I did open with a fact check, but otherwise was engaging in open dialog. I just did ‘fuss and argue’ my point, done. I was clarifying my opinion.

No I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I think it’s clear my thoughts on media hype are in the minority.

I'm not trying to minimize anything about ebola, as I stated above. I don't understand promoting panic, but that is just a difference of opinion which I expressed. I get that others feel differently.

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Please no name calling.

I used Kelts post to respond to his thoughts, so he was right to think i was responding in part to what he said...i'm on an ipad and can't snip the part i want to respond to, so maybe he felt i was jumping on him.

I want discussion here, but because we can't see people or their tone of voice, it is easy to assume anger or nastiness. I just want to voice my fears, read what's written, listen to other opinions and sort through all of it to find reassurance and peace in my heart.

I wasn't name calling anyone, I just thought the same thing as you to some degree and agreed. Everyone has an opinion and is more than welcome to post it, no matter if I agree with it or not, and I just don't think sitting back and letting someone else say something about media hype is right. I post what I find from live news from Dallas so everyone reading this thread knows what's being told to us HERE WHERE I LIVE Near DALLAS. I'm not creating panic or hype, I'm just relaying my thoughts and what's being told to US that live here near Dallas or in Dallas from Dallas News.

I too voice my fears, call bullshit out from the news, and read and listen to others opinions on this thread and try to find reassurance in the healthcare system here as well as the CDC and WHO(world health organization). This way I can sleep at night and not worry about some severe epidemic happening near me.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by TruTexan

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze

There must be confusion here.

I posted a link to an article about the control of ebola in Nigeria. MsTinkerbelly replied with four points, one I fact checked, two I agreed with, and the last I disagreed with.

Why are you upset?

[TruTexan]

I"m not, Kelt, I just thought what you said about promoting media hype was not what is going on in this thread. That's it.

[cricket26]

well, i feel a huge weight lifted now that the 2 nurses are being well taken care of in facilities that are equipped and have staff that are highly trained...alot of fears have been alleviated...even so we still have fears of being accidentally exposed by passengers on frontier flight 1143 and passengers on a carnival cruise to mexico boarded by a lab tech from presby...the cruise ship was not allowed to dock in mexico and is on its way back to galveston....

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by Kobi

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

Thank you for this Kobi, very very well said. I heartily agree.

[Medusa]

I'd submit that another possibility with these caregivers had much less to do with being less than honest or having questionable judgment and more to do with being overworked, understaffed, and possibly undertrained.

I know a lot of damned fine caregivers who would not risk their families, much less their own health, over even the slightest hint of possibility of contracting what could be one of the least curable viruses we've seen in a long time (speaking strictly as a lay person on the potentiality of the deadliness here, if someone is an epidemiologist, please do correct me).

I believe they are doing the best they can with what they have.

As for the hospital executives, I don't consider them caregivers (especially if they've never donned scrubs or touched a bedpan full of someone else's diarrhea). They don't have the same incentive to follow the CDC guidelines as the hands-on caregivers do. Their lives are not at stake on the same level.

I just read an article about the crew of an American Airlines flight out of Dallas locked a woman who threw up in the aisle in the bathroom for the last half of her flight.

Guess what color she was?

[Kelt]

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek, nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek, nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain.

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.

I agree, that was mostly tongue in cheek. He actually sounds pretty well qualified for a constantly evolving national situation and I'm sure medical counsel will be brought in to co-advise or whatever they will call it. I'm just waiting for the clown cars and rest of the circus to pull into town.

As we've already seen, having a government agency ask someone to self monitor may work but if there are no teeth to it, it is optional. It is hard to imagine anyone not complying, but again, most of my concerns are of the hype driven panic/hysteria actions that are surely to show up at some point.

I should be clear, I'm not in favor of executive orders being put into place that strip us of our civil rights. I just don't know how the outliers in this situation will be handled. I seems like anytime local agencies are tasked with managing something that crosses state lines, things go awry.

[*Anya*]

Frequently asked questions about Ebola, answered by CDC, dated 10/17/2014:

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/20...-questions.pdf

[The_Lady_Snow]

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

[feminality]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

Thank You Lady S ... for saying out loud what I have been thinking and wanting to say but was afraid ... Thank you.

[cricket26]

i guess i fell into false sense of security being here in dallas and the fact that the governor did not make a declaration of emergency in which "the county judge or mayor of a municipality may control ingress to and egress from a disaster area under the jurisdiction and authority of the county judge or mayor and control the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in that area.” that did not happen...


now a woman who got on dallas public transportation (DART) was greeted with men in hazmat suits...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...AZMAT-On-Scene apparently several people threw up on the dart rail today...

i am wondering if is just the normal seasonal flu going around, or people are so stressed out about ebola that they cant even leave their homes with out throwing up....this woman spit on the train platform and was taken away....

please people dont panic...

[Martina]

Originally Posted by cricket26

apparently several people threw up on the dart rail today...

i am wondering if is just the normal seasonal flu going around, or people are so stressed out about ebola that they cant even leave their homes with out throwing up....this woman spit on the train platform and was taken away....

.

Don't you think on any given day several people throw up while on public transportation? Are people really getting "taken away?"

[EnchantedNightDweller]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

I was thinking about this very thing today. I was remembering how people with AIDS were treated during the initial outbreak. It is terrible but it is fear causes people to act this way. Until we know more about the virus, I'm afraid this is how it will be.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by EnchantedNightDweller

I was thinking about this very thing today. I was remembering how people with AIDS were treated during the initial outbreak. It is terrible but it is fear causes people to act this way. Until we know more about the virus, I'm afraid this is how it will be.

People should be cautionary period, not just because Ebola is on the news.. We should wash our hands, have safe,sex, not eat processed foods, clean kitty litter with gloves and masks on, not smoke, not eat fried food, teach our kids to wash their hands after sneezing into them etc etc..


What is happening is some racist, separatist mentality, where black peoples or African people will become easy targets for the xenophobes, radical nut jobs, ignorant folks. People have and will continue to be self appointed heros who will say, do, act stoopid and offensive, it didn't have to be that way with AIDS like you said, that was a total disgusting way that homophobic rhetoric and hate was advocated by them in the name of zealotry and bigotry(including our own Government cough Reagan).. We have Faux news spreading fear and ignorance and as a people we shouldn't shrug it off cause it's expected we should be aware that if groups of people are going to be blamed so are the rest of us (see Pat Robertson he blames the gays for everything)..

We've (this country) adopted a new (for the time being) hate agenda, last month it was focused on Muslims, this week Africans & Blacks.. It's alarming when people start looking at at black folk sizing up what region their from to figure out if they could be contaminated or not, it's uncomfortable to read, see and hear about. That's more scary, the nonchalant way we are expected to be about unreasonable, xenophobic, non factual hysteria..