Why do we call the US America?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by sharkchomp

Now wait... are we not the United States of America that live in North America? Or are we just the United States. Does it not say on our declaration of independence, the United States of America?

I don't mind learning something new or looking at things in different ways, but why is it that I'm all the sudden racist, classist and arrogant? Perhaps I'm ignorant, plain fucking stupid or just misinformed. I invite discussions and expanding my mind but I loathe doing it from the stand point of "didn't you know you suck?".

I still adore you Jen and respect you immensely, we're just talking here.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

Sorry I came off so strongly...I owe you a drink my friend! I do feel deeply about this, but understand this may be the first time you have thought about it , and that it is likely not a priority for you.

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.

I get that you might think what other countries think of us is not important, but it really is even if you don't plan to travel thoughhhhh....the fishing in Argentina and Chile is unbelievable, I will show you pictures that will make you weep . The Argentines and Chileans are American's too.

I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.


Am I making sense?

[Boots13]

Hmmm, seems like both continents have been called America since the 1500's , or so...
wouldnt that make us all Americans?

yet even today Italians dont call it America but rather Stati Uniti

" Amerigo Vespucci was a Florentine merchant and navigator who made at least two transatlantic trips to the New World, voyages that inspired cartographer Martin Wardseemüller to label the new continent "America" in 1507. Vespucci was employed by the Florentine Medici family as a representative for their operations in Seville, Spain. He went from supplying ships to joining the expedition of Alonso Ojeda as a navigator. Although the record is unclear, it is generally accepted that Vespucci sailed with Ojeda to the northeastern coast of South America in 1499, under the flag of Spain. He made a second voyage in 1502. The story that he reached South America in 1497 is held to be apocryphal; the story that he made a fourth voyage in 1504 is also considered suspect. Somehow an account of a 1497 voyage was published, and Wardseemüller came to believe that Vespucci had commanded the expedition and had reached the New World before Christopher Columbus who found the mainland in 1498. Wardseemüller named the continent America and the label stuck. "

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Boots13

Hmmm, seems like both continents have been called America since the 1500's , or so...
wouldnt that make us all Americans?

yet even today Italians dont call it America but rather Stati Uniti

" Amerigo Vespucci was a Florentine merchant and navigator who made at least two transatlantic trips to the New World, voyages that inspired cartographer Martin Wardseemüller to label the new continent "America" in 1507. Vespucci was employed by the Florentine Medici family as a representative for their operations in Seville, Spain. He went from supplying ships to joining the expedition of Alonso Ojeda as a navigator. Although the record is unclear, it is generally accepted that Vespucci sailed with Ojeda to the northeastern coast of South America in 1499, under the flag of Spain. He made a second voyage in 1502. The story that he reached South America in 1497 is held to be apocryphal; the story that he made a fourth voyage in 1504 is also considered suspect. Somehow an account of a 1497 voyage was published, and Wardseemüller came to believe that Vespucci had commanded the expedition and had reached the New World before Christopher Columbus who found the mainland in 1498. Wardseemüller named the continent America and the label stuck. "

Absolutely! We are all Americans. North, Central and South America...all of us American.

[sharkchomp]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Sorry I came off so strongly...I owe you a drink my friend! I do feel deeply about this, but understand this may be the first time you have thought about it , and that it is likely not a priority for you.

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.

I get that you might think what other countries think of us is not important, but it really is even if you don't plan to travel thoughhhhh....the fishing in Argentina and Chile is unbelievable, I will show you pictures that will make you weep . The Argentines and Chileans are American's too.

I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.


Am I making sense?

No worries dear friend!!!! You're absolutely right, I have never once thought about this. I was taught that I am an American. I say that with pride. I love my country. I am often shocked at how much the world hates us. I found this out first hand when I traveled to Jamaca(conflict, guards, locals told us to go home, uncool!). I can promise you that I won't go back there. As far as our politics go, I wish we would leave the world alone. Help those in need such as Haiti but concentrate on our own problems.

I do think it's important what other nations think of us, but does me calling myself a US citizen rather than an American really make that big of an impact? I would think the actions of our government make a far greater impact. That said, I would hope my calling myself an American would in no way make anyone in another country feel negated. In fact, if we all are Americans here in the West, then it's a true statement, albeit a very general one.

So, if I'm ever in another country (unlikely unless Canada), I'll be sure to say I am from the United States for the sake of peace and respect. And I can't wait to see your fishing pictures!!!!!!!

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

[Bit]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

"I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here"

I am sorry, but I take offense to this part of your post. Where exactly is here?

And when Europeans called it America they were referring to the continent, not the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

When I said, "before there were any independent countries here" I meant on the two continents named America, and I myself made it pretty doggoned clear in that post that Europeans referred to the continent as "America." I really don't see how anyone could have missed that, given the rest of my post... but hey, I italicized it this time just to make it clear.

[Write14u]

snips:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.


I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.

Totally getting your point here ... and with the thread as well.
But, as Waldo said, it doesn't seem like anyone from South or Central America or Canada is rushing to call themselves "Americans" and who could blame them, based on the rep those from the U.S. have abroad. (although...can we say STEREOTYPE, much? Is every person from the U.S a loud obnoxious "American?")

Also, for any Canadians, Central/South Americans (and I'm legit asking this) ... what is stopping you from calling yourselves Americans if you want to since you ARE indeed Americans?

Back to what you said about saying "from the U.S." ... well, according to the Declaration of Independence, the name of this country *is* the United States of America. It seems like most countries have a derivative to refer to its citizens, such as Argentinian, Brazilian, Chilean, Canadian, Guatamalen, Columbian. "American" does seem like a natural progression for people from the U.S.
I, too, wonder what other name would work (without being derogatory) as United Statsian a) seems unwieldy and b) leaves out what we're the united states of. Maybe our forefathers should have called us the United States in the Americas. But I don't think all of them were that well traveled enough to understand how much more there was out there.

How does it make people from the U.S. dismissive, arrogant and possibly racist if they choose to call themselves Americans ... if those from South and Central America don't choose to call themselves that?

I certainly understand and respect the viewpoint of others who are also obviously Americans, but I don't think U.S. citizens identifying themselves as Americans means they're racist or arrogant or dismissive unless they're denying someone else the right to do so as well.

And speaking of arrogant ... Yanks, gringos? ... That's just stereotyping and making generalizations, as well.

I think awareness of this issue is a great thing to have. But it seems to me the correct word usage might be "unaware" as opposed to dismissive. Simply because someone was taught they were an "American," doesn't mean they're being dismissive of others. Let's teach people instead of simply generalizing about an entire nation.

And for the record, I ascribe the U.S.'s bad rep abroad to the same "Jeff Foxworthy theory" about the South. He jokes that it's "always the least intelligent among us that ends up on TV." I'm sure there are plenty of people from the U.S. who travel the world without drawing the word obnoxious, but damn those idiots that give us all a bad reputation.

Just my thoughts and opinions anyway.

[Unndunn]

When I saw the title of this thread I assumed it was a question, but that was before I read the first few posts and saw that there was already an answer given. Is everyone with a different opinion on this subject an arrogant, classist, racist? I hope not.

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Unndunn

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

I respect your reason for calling yourself American, I do. In the end you call yourself an American just because it is easier, shortening and all, not because it is what your country was named, otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right? So it all boils down to easy and not accuracy. I understand this, as I do this many times myself (my entire family are all US Citizens) but basically, what I think Apocalisptic was trying to do was raise awareness. The forefathers also wrote about the right to own slaves and such, this doesn't mean they owe anyone an apology, that would be impossible. In any event, they did not name the US America, since that was already taken by an entire continent, did they?

I think what is lacking is the knowledge that America is a continent. I did some consulting work for a Canadian firm and they always made the distinction and that made me aware that this was a US thing. Whenever they referred to the way they did things in Canada or the US as opposed to here in Colombia, they always said...oh this is how this or that is done in North America. I found that very respectful.

Originally Posted by Bit

When I said, "before there were any independent countries here" I meant on the two continents named America, and I myself made it pretty doggoned clear in that post that Europeans referred to the continent as "America." I really don't see how anyone could have missed that, given the rest of my post... but hey, I italicized it this time just to make it clear.

Thank you for the clarification, albeit a little snarky. Judging by your clarification, I must be pretty darn stupid, he he

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right?

Right. Because folks from Mexico refer to themselves as "United Mexican States Citizens" (or more likely Estados Unidos Mexicanos, but you get my drift)

And people from Colombia? as "Republican of Colombia"

And how about those from Brazil? as "Federative Republicans of Brazil"

And those from Germany? "Federal Republican of Germany"

And how about those zany occupants of France? "French Republicans"

And let's not forget the good people of "The People's Republic of China" (Yeah... what would that be? "A Person of the Republic of China" - rolls right off the tongue)

Again, I realize I didn't pay a lot of attention in school (I'm sure it'll come as a shock to you all that I thought I knew it all as a teenager too), but I do believe the US(ofA) was recognized as a country before any other foreign colony on the North or South American continents. And yes, the founding fathers decreed that their newly established nation would be called "The United States of America". While I wasn't there, and do not know if their intent was to crowd out the ability for any other person living on the continents to feel comfy calling themselves an American - I some how doubt it.

Why are those of you up in arms about this flap not screaming bloody murder about the audacity of the Australians? Well the poor sorry sods in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia must really hate life. Maybe it's not an issue any longer because the continental naming convention is seen as evolving from the Australian Continent to Oceania in some circles.

And lest us not forget the continent Africa and the nation of South Africa or is that not so important nor confusing?

This hub bub over what others call us? Lots of hot air. I don't know anyone from Germany, France, Spain, Italy or Portugal who calls themselves a European. They, seemingly more so to me, are far too nationalistic to be grouped with other nations under such an umbrella term as "European". Those from *outside* Europe? Yep, you bet! Although mostly I hear this in terms of descriptors "Oh, he's so European looking" sort of thing. The individuals from those European nation generally refer to themselves as "German", "French", "Spanish", "Italian" or "Portuguese". You'll note that each of these labels are formed off the unique identifier of their proper national name. So the call to arms to use another label for ourselves (USAian - yeah, I want to hear you call yourself that) seems rather silly. Should there not, instead, be a call to change the name of the nation? Or maybe the continent?

One *really* could argue that we're much more brash and insensitive to say that we're "from the States" or "from the US" as though it's the only organization of states in the world when clearly the United Mexican States and the Federated States of Micronesia both exist.

And I agree. Our bad rap has much more to do with our politics and general poor manners (not that self absorption isn't chief amongst our poor manners) over the last 40 years than it does with what the Founding Fathers so blithely determined we would wind up calling ourselves over the next many millenia.

/soapbox of crankiness