The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[BullDog]

I certainly understand June's point about wanting stories from us, but why is a feminine appearing woman's status (whether femme or not) as lesbian/queer more often than not in doubt? She's been dating women since 1999, been married to a woman since 2008. Is anyone wondering whether the more androgynous Ellen is really a lesbian?

Anyway, here's a recent interview Portia de Rossi did

http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=106125

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I certainly understand June's point about wanting stories from us, but why is a feminine appearing woman's status (whether femme or not) as lesbian/queer more often than not in doubt? She's been dating women since 1999, been married to a woman since 2008. Is anyone wondering whether the more androgynous Ellen is really a lesbian?

Anyway, here's a recent interview Portia de Rossi did

http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=106125

The more feminine one appears, the more people put our value down.. I know for me sometimes my own peers will not recognize or ignore that I am femme unless I have a masculine appearing counterpart on my arm oh wait more like me on theirs..

Make sense?

[Nat]

Portia and Ellen are so adorable together and they really seem a bit private to me. I would absolutely hate to think that their relationship is anything but the real thing - I guess I do care on a personal level. I have just been really impressed with how they are managing. I think Ellen is really in a great position to "change hearts and minds" of mainstream America and I think she's doing a great job. I guess I read them both as pretty genuine and I am grateful to them both for being willing to play the role they play in American culture.

I remember talking to an guy friend of mine about a huge crush I had on a butch back before I figured it out. He said - of course you like the butch ones -that's because you're straight. What sucks is that I didn't understand myself or butches enough to question him.

A good female friend of mine - whom I flirted with regularly - would say often to me, "you just think you're a lesbian because you haven't tried it. I thought I was until I tried it, and then I knew I wasn't." I bought that line for a long time. The most damaging thing about buying that line is that I felt like I could not id as a lesbian unless I had fucked a woman. I didn't feel legitimately capable of saying that I knew. If I had been butch or if I had been more androgynous, I don't think I would have gotten that feedback and I think other lesbians would have at least recognized me during that very ling period of time that I questioned myself. So I think being invisible to others kinda led me back into the closet every time I tried to come out or even come out to myself. There are days when I severely wish I had those years back, but i should have been more confident in my knowledge of myself at a younger age.

I could have saved myself so much time if I hadn't sought so much advice from straight people.

[Pretty Woman]

Well all of that certainly got things going! And my goodnes folks are quick to jump on someone in here. But yes I do mean Portia and not Anne Heche. That's another whole crazy can of worms and not for here at all.
But in any case, the point is that sometimes I read that we want MSM role models and will take them in any way we can get them. I don't agree and prefer to think of regular femmes who live an out loud life on a daily basis as the heroines of this story. But then when we start to discuss one 'star' or another folks tend to throw in the 'who cares...I'd rather talk amongst ourselves'. And so would I but also in the context of the MSM because in many ways that defines us in spite of ourselves and what we say here. It's that deconstruction that interests me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Pretty Woman

Well all of that certainly got things going! And my goodnes folks are quick to jump on someone in here. But yes I do mean Portia and not Anne Heche. That's another whole crazy can of worms and not for here at all.
But in any case, the point is that sometimes I read that we want MSM role models and will take them in any way we can get them. I don't agree and prefer to think of regular femmes who live an out loud life on a daily basis as the heroines of this story. But then when we start to discuss one 'star' or another folks tend to throw in the 'who cares...I'd rather talk amongst ourselves'. And so would I but also in the context of the MSM because in many ways that defines us in spite of ourselves and what we say here. It's that deconstruction that interests me.

I don't need any Main Stream to define who I am, hell I don't think that we will ever be evolved enough to allow women talk about having strap ons, slaves, and love orgasms giving them or getting them. So I am not understanding how you can say this??... I really can't..

Yanno I did not think there were Queer Police who had guidelines or timelines to how long you have to be in the in crowd to be allowed the gay card.... I don't feel that was ok, and very erasing to our newly hatched (recently out) femmes in this community

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Pretty Woman

Well all of that certainly got things going! And my goodnes folks are quick to jump on someone in here. But yes I do mean Portia and not Anne Heche. That's another whole crazy can of worms and not for here at all.
But in any case, the point is that sometimes I read that we want MSM role models and will take them in any way we can get them. I don't agree and prefer to think of regular femmes who live an out loud life on a daily basis as the heroines of this story. But then when we start to discuss one 'star' or another folks tend to throw in the 'who cares...I'd rather talk amongst ourselves'. And so would I but also in the context of the MSM because in many ways that defines us in spite of ourselves and what we say here. It's that deconstruction that interests me.

First, I don't think anyone has said we need MSM role models to define us. It would be nice to see our community represented much in the same way that I love having Hispanic role models in the MSM.

We are far to particular to "take them in any way we can get them." which was my point when I originally mentioned Portia Derossi. It was a side effect of mentioning our invisibility. In r/t and in the MSM.

I'm pretty sure we're going to continue being our Femme selves whether or not a Femme in the Entertainment industry is out and proud. We're surrounded by every day role models here in this very community and I love that.

[Pretty Woman]

No queer police here, to the contrary actually. Sorry I don't get that benefit of the doubt here on this all-inclusive and welcoming/loving femme thread. And as to the MSM 'validating us' if either LS or SF would read my post instead of yelling a me you would see that I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the MSM portrayals are what reinforces alot of 'the other' as we move out into the real world and interact with folks not on this site.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Pretty Woman

No queer police here, to the contrary actually. Sorry I don't get that benefit of the doubt here on this all-inclusive and welcoming/loving femme thread. And as to the MSM 'validating us' if either LS or SF would read my post instead of yelling a me you would see that I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the MSM portrayals are what reinforces alot of 'the other' as we move out into the real world and interact with folks not on this site.

PW I was not being unwelcoming, nor was I yelling at you, I thought I had made it clear that I did not get your post. I did disagree with the way you worded Portia's queer status, I don't feel that is right.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Pretty Woman

No queer police here, to the contrary actually. Sorry I don't get that benefit of the doubt here on this all-inclusive and welcoming/loving femme thread. And as to the MSM 'validating us' if either LS or SF would read my post instead of yelling a me you would see that I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that the MSM portrayals are what reinforces alot of 'the other' as we move out into the real world and interact with folks not on this site.

I don't think they are "yelling" at you... (and I am sure they will correct me if I am wrong) the fortunate part of being around here a long time is you get to know personalities and how people write...

They are fierce femmes

I've said this in another thread...while I don't think stars are the end-all-be-all in terms of representing the gay community, I believe they have some bit of responsibility to not act like assholes. I mean, they all make mistakes and do dumb things in the eye of the media, but is it really so smart to lambaste them when they use the wrong pronoun or say something not as evolved as we try to be?

I'm really an advocate for education; esp for stars and media types.