Small Plane Crashes in Austin Tx - Page 2

I'mOneToo · 02-18-2010, 03:22 PM

I keep writing this and then deleting it. But I gotta say, after all...

I think the ethnicity of the perpetrator is not an issue.

Tim McVeigh was an American, and a terrorist.

I think I have been trained (by American media especially) to think of terrorism as being acts perpetrated by 'foreigners'.

Websters defines terrorism as:

"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes."

This probably qualifies. And it is, bullshit. He could have written his letters and website and crawled in a hole and blown himself up with a grenade. But he chose to take as many as possible with him.

p.s. not picking on anyone's thoughts of the ethnicity of 'usual' terrorists.

dreadgeek · 02-18-2010, 03:51 PM

At present the full text is available at Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...39.html?page=2

I would argue that had this man been brown skinned and named Hassan, holding every other variable constant including his suicide note, this would be played in the media as a terrorist attack (even though, strictly speaking, it is not in that although he had political grievances, his act was not meant to influence the political process).

Cheers
Aj

Rufusboi · 02-18-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diva

Evidently, there is a huge rant (manifesto~6 pages long) on Facebook about tax code, his (Joe Stack) treatment by attorneys and CPAs. It's rambling, the reporter is saying.

www.kxan.com

They have it on their website. This is our NBC Austin affiliate.

Wow.....it was signed: Joe Stack (1956-2010) 02/18/2010

That was eerie.

Why can't people get it though their heads....pay your taxes. You cannot out run or out smart the IRS. That's why we have the saying...death and taxes! It just annoys me that people bring this on themselves and then blame everyone else and victimize innocent people. Its just another person who can't take responsibility for their own choices.

Rufus

Greyson · 02-18-2010, 04:00 PM

I have mixed feelings regarding the concerns of posting the manifesto of Richard Andrew Stack. I suspect there is a file on many of us here somewhere in the Belly of the Beast, aka Government.

Are you are a person that may have participated in "radical social change" in the past 30 years or so? I bet your name can be found somewhere and you are held suspect. Did you ever attend a peaceful meeting about anything do with the human rights of being LGBTQI?

I am not an anarchist but I do not delude myself in believing if we play by the rules the FBI or any other government entity will not view me or others like me with a modicum of distrust and suspicion. Why? Because we dare to live differently and not hang our heads in shame about it.

I do not condone what this guy did. It is flat out wrong to take the lives of other living beings. However, I am bemused that the FBI is removing Stack's rant from public review.

Rufusboi · 02-18-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I concur. But I'm waiting for the Admins to chime in on this. If the FBI took it down and then made the TV Station take it down. I'm not comfortable drawing the wrong kind of attention to this site. I think if you want to post it on your own blog, then you make your own personal decision to expose yourself to whatever. </end Mod Thoughts>

Tim McVeigh = Terrorist. </end June's opinion>

I hear what you are saying, June. But my first thought was that it is a shame we are afraid of out own government.

Rufus

Linus · 02-18-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

I do not condone what this guy did. It is flat out wrong to take the lives of other living beings. However, I am bemused that the FBI is removing Stack's rant from public review.

Actually, that's normal. It's considered evidence in an ongoing investigation. Until the investigation is closed and everything verified, they will likely clamp down on publication of stuff (it also is for protection of his family as well).

Linus · 02-18-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

I hear what you are saying, June. But my first thought was that it is a shame we are afraid of out own government.

Rufus

If the gov't came to you with a warrant and said that you had to remove it, is it being afraid or being respectful of the law? I suspect that NBC got that (and I wouldn't be surprised if Huff gets it too).

Greyson · 02-18-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus

Actually, that's normal. It's considered evidence in an ongoing investigation. Until the investigation is closed and everything verified, they will likely clamp down on publication of stuff (it also is for protection of his family as well).

Linus, yes, it is considered to be "normal" procedure but I do not believe that every action an entity of authority takes is necessary. Please do not take my post as a offense about you or your analysis. I have a great deal of respect for your ability.

Linus · 02-18-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

Linus, yes, it is considered to be "normal" procedure but I do not believe that every action an entity of authority takes is necessary. Please do not take my post as a offense about you or your analysis. I have a great deal of respect for your ability.

Oh no. I wouldn't take offense to a valid opinion or point of view. It is valid. When one looks at it, he's dead. It's not like they can prosecute him and there's nothing -- really -- in the note that might potentially do something bad or harm.

Diva · 02-18-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Why can't people get it though their heads....pay your taxes. You cannot out run or out smart the IRS. That's why we have the saying...death and taxes! It just annoys me that people bring this on themselves and then blame everyone else and victimize innocent people. Its just another person who can't take responsibility for their own choices.

Rufus

Indeed. And the sad thing is, his wife and daughter are left to deal with this mess he has created.

Diva · 02-18-2010, 04:33 PM

There was a brief statement made by our [not so] illustrious governor.....and maybe I didn't hear correctly, but it ALmost sounded as though he WANTED it to be a terrorist......he was making statements that blew things out of proportion SO much, I wanted to scream "Go listen to your news, man!".

Linus · 02-18-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diva

There was a brief statement made by our [not so] illustrious governor.....and maybe I didn't hear correctly, but it ALmost sounded as though he WANTED it to be a terrorist......he was making statements that blew things out of proportion SO much, I wanted to scream "Go listen to your news, man!".

It's interesting because I didn't want it to be one.

I think, however, your Governor wants a reason to point fingers and be able to enforce that "I told you so.."

Diva · 02-18-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus

It's interesting because I didn't want it to be one.

I think, however, your Governor wants a reason to point fingers and be able to enforce that "I told you so.."

Exactly. .............

Canela · 02-18-2010, 04:46 PM

The entire thing is a tragedy.
Innocent lives have been lost.
I am saddened by all this.

SuperFemme · 02-18-2010, 04:50 PM

It is my understanding that he burned down his own home before heading to the airport. Probably had a tax lien on it. What a tragedy.

Diva · 02-18-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

It is my understanding that he burned down his own home before heading to the airport. Probably had a tax lien on it. What a tragedy.

This is true..

~Bo · 02-18-2010, 06:03 PM

I think he was the only one killed. No one else has died but the fucktard. Yay!

AtLast · 02-18-2010, 06:16 PM

OK, someone please tell me that none of our Austin members were hurt in this? Actually, I don't want anyone hurt, but, Bo's fucktard statement makes a lot of sense to me.... so tired of these kinds of stories.

AtLast · 02-18-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

I have mixed feelings regarding the concerns of posting the manifesto of Richard Andrew Stack. I suspect there is a file on many of us here somewhere in the Belly of the Beast, aka Government.

Are you are a person that may have participated in "radical social change" in the past 30 years or so? I bet your name can be found somewhere and you are held suspect. Did you ever attend a peaceful meeting about anything do with the human rights of being LGBTQI?

I am not an anarchist but I do not delude myself in believing if we play by the rules the FBI or any other government entity will not view me or others like me with a modicum of distrust and suspicion. Why? Because we dare to live differently and not hang our heads in shame about it.

I do not condone what this guy did. It is flat out wrong to take the lives of other living beings. However, I am bemused that the FBI is removing Stack's rant from public review.

Reminds me of knowing I have more than one FBI file.... The third was started due to my seeing a woman divorcing a man that was being considered for a Special Agent post! I wondered who the hell those people lurking around were..... The second was after being arrested in an anti-Vietnam War protest. The first was for attendance at a Chavez rally. LOL.. what is really funny is that I got to read the files because of my partner's husband getting that FBI job!!!

Yup, one can end up having a file in quite a few instances. No, I don't condone this man's actions at all.

Remember Tricky Dicky?

~Bo · 02-18-2010, 06:33 PM

Diva...........was this anywhere near your place?

02-18-2010, 03:51 PM	#22
dreadgeek Power Femme How Do You Identify?: Cinnamon spiced, caramel colored, power-femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to a wonderful horse girl Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lat: 45.60 Lon: -122.60 Posts: 1,733 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,132 Thanked 6,848 Times in 1,493 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	At present the full text is available at Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...39.html?page=2 I would argue that had this man been brown skinned and named Hassan, holding every other variable constant including his suicide note, this would be played in the media as a terrorist attack (even though, strictly speaking, it is not in that although he had political grievances, his act was not meant to influence the political process). Cheers Aj __________________ Proud member of the reality-based community. "People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so, the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn’t that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people. As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn’t measure up." (Terry Pratchett)

02-18-2010, 04:00 PM	#24
Greyson Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Transmasculine/Non-Binary Preferred Pronoun?: Hy (Pronounced He) Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,589 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 21,132 Thanked 8,165 Times in 2,007 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I have mixed feelings regarding the concerns of posting the manifesto of Richard Andrew Stack. I suspect there is a file on many of us here somewhere in the Belly of the Beast, aka Government. Are you are a person that may have participated in "radical social change" in the past 30 years or so? I bet your name can be found somewhere and you are held suspect. Did you ever attend a peaceful meeting about anything do with the human rights of being LGBTQI? I am not an anarchist but I do not delude myself in believing if we play by the rules the FBI or any other government entity will not view me or others like me with a modicum of distrust and suspicion. Why? Because we dare to live differently and not hang our heads in shame about it. I do not condone what this guy did. It is flat out wrong to take the lives of other living beings. However, I am bemused that the FBI is removing Stack's rant from public review. __________________ Sometimes you don't realize your own strength until you come face to face with your greatest weakness. - Susan Gale

02-18-2010, 03:22 PM	#21
I'mOneToo Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: left of right Relationship Status: right of left Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ]centered[ Posts: 321 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 587 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts Rep Power: 2132874	I keep writing this and then deleting it. But I gotta say, after all... I think the ethnicity of the perpetrator is not an issue. Tim McVeigh was an American, and a terrorist. I think I have been trained (by American media especially) to think of terrorism as being acts perpetrated by 'foreigners'. Websters defines terrorism as: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes." This probably qualifies. And it is, bullshit. He could have written his letters and website and crawled in a hole and blown himself up with a grenade. But he chose to take as many as possible with him. p.s. not picking on anyone's thoughts of the ethnicity of 'usual' terrorists.

02-18-2010, 04:33 PM	#31
Diva Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Diva Preferred Pronoun?: Diva Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chez Diva Posts: 11,879 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,263 Thanked 17,180 Times in 5,238 Posts Rep Power: 0	There was a brief statement made by our [not so] illustrious governor.....and maybe I didn't hear correctly, but it ALmost sounded as though he WANTED it to be a terrorist......he was making statements that blew things out of proportion SO much, I wanted to scream "Go listen to your news, man!".

02-18-2010, 04:46 PM	#34
Canela Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Stone Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Babe, she, her, ella Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Antonio Posts: 2,374 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 10,594 Thanked 6,524 Times in 1,697 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	The entire thing is a tragedy. Innocent lives have been lost. I am saddened by all this.

02-18-2010, 04:50 PM	#35
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	It is my understanding that he burned down his own home before heading to the airport. Probably had a tax lien on it. What a tragedy.

02-18-2010, 06:03 PM	#37
~Bo Senior Member How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: PA Posts: 1,590 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,247 Thanked 1,680 Times in 742 Posts Rep Power: 13485854	I think he was the only one killed. No one else has died but the fucktard. Yay!

02-18-2010, 06:16 PM	#38
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	OK, someone please tell me that none of our Austin members were hurt in this? Actually, I don't want anyone hurt, but, Bo's fucktard statement makes a lot of sense to me.... so tired of these kinds of stories.

02-18-2010, 06:33 PM	#40
~Bo Senior Member How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: PA Posts: 1,590 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,247 Thanked 1,680 Times in 742 Posts Rep Power: 13485854	Diva...........was this anywhere near your place?