Heaven and Hell. What do you think?

[Ryobi]

Heaven and Hell

When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

[Rockinonahigh]

Your grandfather was a very wise man,never have I herd heaven and hell described better.
Rockin

[Gemme]

I've never heard that particular description of Heaven or Hell either. It's very interesting.

I think both are a personal thing and, therefore, everyone's Hell and Heaven would be specifically designed for them. The things that a person in Hell loathes and/or finds painful is what is abundant in his/her Hell. The things that someone in Heaven finds peaceful or joyful are what s/he sees....feels....breathes.

[iamkeri1]

I believe in neither heaven nor hell as I do not believe in life after death. I think it would be comforting to believe in an afterlife, since I would dearlu love some day to be re-united with my beloved who died six years ago. But, sorry to say, I can wrap neither my head, nor my heart around this concept.

But if I could believe in heaven, there is no way I could believe in hell, and I'll tell you why. If dont understand how anyone believing in god as creator/parent - you know "Our Father", (or Beloved Parent as I would word it) could believe in hell.

I have four kids. My teen boys have put me through every kind of "hell" you can think of since their dad died. Cursed me, wished me dead, run away from home for months at a time,stolen from me almost on a daily basis, been in trouble both in school and with the law many many times. At times I have wished I was the kind of parent who could just "run away" myself. Anyway, I am just a fallable human, not a god, or THE God and there is no way I could send these boys or anyone else to hell for all eternity. (with the possible exception of Lyndon Baines Johnson, who sent my brother to viet nam which lead ultimately to his death years later from Agent Orange Syndrome)

My thought towards these boys have been anything but loving on many occasions, but no, I could not damn them. Maybe I could roast them a little, for a very limited time, LOL, but definetly not for all eternity. So I don't think a parent-god could do this to his "children: either. Nope, don't believe in hell.
Smooches, (with a light coating of fire and brimstone on the lips - look out!)
Keri

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Ryobi

Heaven and Hell

When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

This was lovely....especially the part I highlighted.....feeding one another.....

Love it.

I guess my heaven would be being reunited with my daughter....my Grandfather.....my Mom.........

My hell would be being in a room full of snakes and spiders. Or drowning over and over and over.....

I should stop and not give Satan any ideas.....<smile.

Thanks, Ry.........

[Ryobi]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I've never heard that particular description of Heaven or Hell either. It's very interesting.

I think both are a personal thing and, therefore, everyone's Hell and Heaven would be specifically designed for them. The things that a person in Hell loathes and/or finds painful is what is abundant in his/her Hell. The things that someone in Heaven finds peaceful or joyful are what s/he sees....feels....breathes.

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think one can change their Heaven or Hell? Maybe visit, instead of living in it?

[Ryobi]

Originally Posted by iamkeri1

I believe in neither heaven nor hell as I do not believe in life after death. I think it would be comforting to believe in an afterlife, since I would dearlu love some day to be re-united with my beloved who died six years ago. But, sorry to say, I can wrap neither my head, nor my heart around this concept.

But if I could believe in heaven, there is no way I could believe in hell, and I'll tell you why. If dont understand how anyone believing in god as creator/parent - you know "Our Father", (or Beloved Parent as I would word it) could believe in hell.

I have four kids. My teen boys have put me through every kind of "hell" you can think of since their dad died. Cursed me, wished me dead, run away from home for months at a time,stolen from me almost on a daily basis, been in trouble both in school and with the law many many times. At times I have wished I was the kind of parent who could just "run away" myself. Anyway, I am just a fallable human, not a god, or THE God and there is no way I could send these boys or anyone else to hell for all eternity. (with the possible exception of Lyndon Baines Johnson, who sent my brother to viet nam which lead ultimately to his death years later from Agent Orange Syndrome)

My thought towards these boys have been anything but loving on many occasions, but no, I could not damn them. Maybe I could roast them a little, for a very limited time, LOL, but definetly not for all eternity. So I don't think a parent-god could do this to his "children: either. Nope, don't believe in hell.
Smooches, (with a light coating of fire and brimstone on the lips - look out!)
Keri

Thanks Keri. I find what you said, interesting. I don't believe in religion. In the past I have been questioned about that. "If you don't believe in religion, why do you even think about heaven or hell?" I don't think they're the same thing and can have one with out the other.
Thanks again.

[Ryobi]

Originally Posted by Diva

This was lovely....especially the part I highlighted.....feeding one another.....

Love it.

I guess my heaven would be being reunited with my daughter....my Grandfather.....my Mom.........

My hell would be being in a room full of snakes and spiders. Or drowning over and over and over.....

I should stop and not give Satan any ideas.....<smile.

Thanks, Ry.........

Thanks Diva. I wish you all of this Heaven and zero of this Hell.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Personally, I think this life is hell, and a practicing ground for what is ahead of us. We can make a difference in how we live life. We can be positive or negative. For me, I am trying to be positive. However, lately I have hit a very bumpy road with no brakes - going downhill quite fast.

[SuperFemme]

The Secrets of Heaven and Hell

The old monk sat by the side of the road. With his eyes closed, his legs crossed and his hands folded in his lap, he sat. In deep meditation he sat.
Suddenly his zazen was interrupted by the harsh and demanding voice of a samurai warrior. "Old man! Teach me about heaven and hell!"


At first, as though he had not heard, there was no perceptible response from the monk. But gradually he began to open his eyes, the faintest hint of a smile playing around the corners of his mouth as the samurai stood there, waiting impatiently, growing more and more agitated with each passing second.
"You wish to know the secrets of heaven and hell?" replied the monk at last. "You who are so unkempt. You whose hands and feet are covered with dirt. You whose hair is uncombed, whose breath is foul, whose sword is all rusty and neglected. You who are ugly and whose mother dresses you funny. You would ask me of heaven and hell?"


The samurai uttered a vile curse. He drew his sword and raised it high over his head. His face turned to crimson, and the veins of his neck stood out in bold relief as he prepared to sever the monk's head from its shoulders.


"That is hell," said the old monk gently, just as the sword began its descent.
In that fraction of a second, the samurai was overcome with amazement, awe, compassion and love for this gentle being who had dared to risk his very life to give him such a teaching. He stopped his sword in mid-flight and his eyes filled with grateful tears.


"And that," said the monk, "is heaven."

[Rockinonahigh]

I was raised in an italian catholic family.When Father rattled the keys to the church u can bet my grand parents were there.I went to the school there as well with more questions that were anserable..so many times I ask questions about what was taught and told to us about the bible and god and many times was told to sit down or they changed the sublect.For one over the years I have become less and less religous and more spritual.I beleave in a higher power that drives this universe we are in.I am more pegan in my beleafs about how the world evolves.I beleave in good karma,that we must take care of out earth it is the mother of us all.Heaven or Hell..well I think we deal with it in some form every day in life.I also beleave that whoever this higher power is needs to step in and end all the hurts and evil going on or are they testing the mettle of the human race to finely find away to live in a peaceful world that we should have.In school I was told that Jeasus/God loved all his children,made them as he wanted them,that he made no mistakes no matter how we lived on earth.Puzzleing thoughts to be shure.For me I will go on doing good things,liveing as peaceful a life as I can...keeping my karma in good order right along with treating my fellow man/woman /child or any of the many creatures on earth with dignaty,compassion and respect..love will come to those who earn it...not demand it.
Rockin

[Just_G]

My life is a little of both; heaven and hell. I could use a bit more heaven, but if I don't get through this hell I am in first, then I won't be a stronger, better person. My idea of hell is mild compared to what a lot of people are going through, but it is still hell to me.

The people in Haiti...THEY are going through hell right now!

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Ryobi

How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

I don't believe in either heaven or hell nor do I believe in any form of an afterlife. In fact, I think of heaven, hell and an afterlife as quite beside the point and a distraction to boot. I'll try to explain.

Both my parents are dead now. My father died 11 years ago, my mother died almost three years ago. While it could certainly be comforting if I believed that they still existed in some sweet by-and-by that would also allow me the luxury to believe that one day we'll see one another (provided, if you go in for Christian theology, I pick the right religion) again. It is a far more difficult challenge to accept that my parents are gone and that anything left unsaid is forever left unsaid. Holding onto the idea of a heaven where one day I'll be reunited with my parents, my grandmother and the childhood dog keeps me from doing the hard work of letting go.

Belief in a hell is similar in its effects but as opposed to providing the illusion that one day I'll be reunited with those I love, it provides conceit that one day all those who have gotten over in this life will 'get what's coming to them' in the afterlife. While there are times I would very much like to think that there's a place where Pat Robertson will know, in a full and complete measure, the true meaning of agony such a belief relieves me of the responsibility to do anything about injustice now. If I strive for justice and I fail, instead of picking myself up and trying again I can always just write it off with the idea that the cosmic books will get balanced in hell.

Lastly, I think that the idea of an afterlife encourages us to not fully live and appreciate our lives now. There is something very focusing about being in my early forties and realizing that at this point, I'm probably closer to the end of my life than the beginning of it. It means that whatever I'm going to get right I had better do so sooner rather than later because there are no second acts. Life is one act, one take, done in front of a live studio audience with no commercial breaks. Belief in an afterlife gives you multiple takes, multiple acts and so where's the pressure to get it right now?

One last thing about heaven and hell. While it may make folks uncomfortable to have this pointed out, largely heaven and hell are seen as reward or punishment. Do the right things (believe the right religion) and you go to heaven. Do the wrong things (believe the wrong religion) and you go to hell. To me, moral or ethical behavior, in order to truly be moral must be motivated solely for its own sake. If I am moral only because I want rewards in the sweet by-and-by I may not do a great deal of harm but I am not doing so for the right reasons.

Cheers
Aj

[The_Lady_Snow]

I enter the kingdom of heaven each time I swing a flogger, use a needle, a knife, my hands or I kick my boy down to the ground.. I am there in all its glory and warmth..

I passed through hell for a short visit, when I lived with my mother, and was married to Rod..

All that other hoovy groovy churchy stuff..

eh..

whatever...

[MsDemeanor]

What Aj said.

[Boots13]

On some innate level I don't want to be an amoeba just bumping along in my petri dish...my mind strays to thoughts of 'surely there must be more' !

I revolve my suspicious disposition from "show me the money" to "sold" because of my incremental brushes with the ultimate price...Is hell a near drowning, and heaven the hand of something greater that pops me out of it? Is hell looking down the business end of a shotgun and heaven found in the fact that it didn't go off? Is heaven found sitting on the top of the world surrounded by ...nothing? Whereby Hell would be a life of sitting on a couch surrounded by infomercials...

C'mon, the proof, give me proof ! Is hell a BBQ?

And when the shit hits the fan and I'm half a breath away from oblivion I need to know that while I am struggling, fighting, thinking, reacting clawing my way to survival, I can also call out from the depths of that immediate hell and hope the hand of something greater is poised to dispatch a little mercy....I want Heaven to be funky, vast, exploding
with life, light, knowledge, love and painless...make it painless.

And why do I think Heaven is inexplicably tied to Divine Intervention?

I want heaven to be directly connected to the hand of something greater than I. That "recovering Catholic" part of me needs to believe in that small detail. But NOT for the reasons of doing good, or the threat of molten
punishment, but more so wanting to know that the people and pets that I love, who have passed before me, are in a kinder, pain free place.

And after all that I'm where I usually end up after thinking about it...I'm less inclined to be guided by thoughts of Heaven or Hell and more apt to live my days contemplating Hope, Divine Intervention, Karma, blessings, Love and Right Action.

Compassion is extraordinary. The rest is details...

[Apocalipstic]

I don't per se believe in Hell and maybe not even Heaven.

But there are some lovely posts and views of what it might be like here.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Ryobi

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think one can change their Heaven or Hell? Maybe visit, instead of living in it?

I think so. As we, as individuals, change and evolve, so do the things that we find pleasant or painful or real or unreal.

Some folks have made some really interesting points. While not agreeing wholeheartedly with AJ's post, I see something in it that I can use for myself. The last paragraph, especially.

The same thing with Snow's post. I'll never be the position of a Domme and be swinging that flogger, but I SEE it. I see where her joy and her Heaven could exist in that moment, just as I can SEE that AJ finds something else that I cannot but it is still valid and relevant.

I have been brought up to see Heaven and Hell as more of a final destination than a transitory, passing through kind of thing but I've thought about this quite a bit recently and, after reading the thoughts and feelings of some others, I think that it could be both.

I've been exposed to a multitude of religions and faiths and I've taken something away from each one, even if it's only "I don't want to do THAT again!". Perhaps that exposure allows me to be more fluid in my thoughts on topics like this. I like tangible stuff, but sometimes, you just have to "know" things without "proof" and the more options there are, the more I like it.

Our beliefs are all we really have in this life. Our belief in an afterlife (or none). Our belief in right and wrong (or not). Our belief that we are loved (or not). Our belief that our good deeds will be rewarded (or not). It's our beliefs that get us through tough times (which may or may not be seen as Hell). Our beliefs allow us to live our lives in the manner we prefer. When we live against the grain of ourselves, so to speak, then that creates discontent within ourselves. It really makes no matter what our beliefs are. It's all about us following our beliefs.

I'm having a really difficult time saying exactly what I want to say in this last paragraph. There's a message in there somewhere but right now my noggin is a bit slushy and my thoughts are coming at me like voices in the dark and then they're gone before I can get them on the screen. So, I'll throw this up there and come back when I'm feeling more clarity.

[SassyLeo]

My mother had been involved in “New Thought” for many years and eventually I became part of the church she co-founded about 12 years ago. It was a wonderful 5 years! The congregation is led by an African American Lesbian minister and her life-partner, also African American, led the music ministry. They were both raised in very fundamental traditional “black churches”. I was very involved- taking classes, participating in groups and the best part, for me, being part of the Gospel choir. Mind you, the church was incredibly progressive and embodied belief systems from all over the world. I loved singing traditional music, with a slight twist of new/more inclusive words and energy. Very woo-woo

Anyway, a number of years ago, I was having a discussion with a colleague, I’ll call her Lisa. Lisa had recently delved back into her faith and had begun attending a Lutheran church with her husband and little girl. She was really enjoying it…and so we would share stories and talk about the differences in our beliefs, but also what we shared. Although I think she liked much of the traditional belief systems, she was somewhat liberal. Meaning, she was not homophobic. And in fact, very open.

Lisa was telling me about how she and several other women from the church had a get together with the minister’s wife at her house. They were all talking about heaven and hell. Lisa was asking her questions and one in particular she really struggled with.

The wife was telling her that they believe that in order to go to heaven, you must believe in Jesus/God/be a Christian/follow the Christian “way”. And if you don’t, you will go to hell.

So the conversation went like this:

Lisa: “What about my friends and family who aren’t an active Christians or I’m not sure what they believe…they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, that is what we believe. We believe that it is best to live as Christians”

Lisa: “So everyone I know who isn’t a Christian or isn’t a practicing Christian, they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, yes…”

Lisa: “Well that is hard for me to hear and understand. These are people I love and just because they don’t believe as I do, they go to hell? What if they are Jewish? It just doesn’t make sense to me”

And so she came back to work on Monday and was really struggling with how to reconcile her feelings. I told her that because I don’t believe in heaven and hell, I could not speak to her specific situation, but encouraged her to follow her heart.

This still sticks with me. My belief is that God (Spirit, Goddess…) does not discriminate and is completely inclusive of all walks of life.

When I die, they can take all the parts they need to save people and then cremate me.

I’m fine with that

[Lusciousblondefemme]

Being raised Roman Catholic I believed all my life about Heaven and Hell... But as I get older I wonder what is really true that was written in the bible.

I wonder how someone could create Heaven and Hell and Earth and all the people on the earth but then have his message be sent through people who spread hatred and molest innocent children. I wonder how one can believe in hell if God says that he forgives all as long as you repent.

I wonder why God created me since I am gay and he supposedly hates gay people.

See as I get older I have alot of questions that I will never have answered because after all I can not have a sit down with God himself.. Now Can I

So Heaven and Hell are not in my future I guess that I will be in Limbo until someone proves to me that there is undoubtfully a Heaven and Hell ...

Or Until there is Equality for ALL..