Religious Holidays in Public Schools

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

That's odd; I always remember Easter Monday off and I just checked both our local school boards' calendars and, yep, they still have it off.

I just checked the Public Board website (although both are publicly funded, we have one RC and one Public), and the Winter Break is still listed as Christmas Break (!). I had no idea.

Isn't it one of those travel day additions? As a kid, we did not have that Monday off. But, I am kinda old and I remember it being added to the Easter Break (wasn't called Spring Break) when my son was elementary school (still called Easter Break or vacation), which was during the 70's. This was in Northern Califonia. Have no idea if this is true for other folks.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Isn't it one of those travel day additions? As a kid, we did not have that Monday off. But, I am kinda old and I remember it being added to the Easter Break (wasn't called Spring Break) when my son was elementary school (still called Easter Break or vacation), which was during the 70's. This was in Northern Califonia. Have no idea if this is true for other folks.

All I know is we had Easter Monday off when I was a kid going to school in Ontario in the 1970's (and I'm 40) and we still have it now. So, in total, schools have four days off for what is titled, "Easter Break".

I'm not sure when it was added.

Easter Break was entirely separate from what we call March or Spring Break.

[JustJo]

Kids are still getting the Indians and Pilgrims feasting together version of Thanksgiving taught in school....at least in our schools. It's one of those shams that gets taught as history often, and drvies me nuts.

I'm not comfortable with either the Indian/Pilgrim feast or the religious version of the holiday...so in our house we decided to look at the name Thanksgiving, and do just that. We invite friends, we have a beautiful meal, and we go around the table and talk a bit about what each of us are grateful for that year.

For us, it's a day to spend reflecting on the things and people we are grateful for...pure and simple. That just works much better for me.

[Soon]

I have to say I am really surprised by the amount of responses who voted to add more religious holidays.

In public institutions, shouldn't the Christian names of existing holidays be phased out -- as opposed to adding more religious observance days to the school calendars?

[Jess]

I think in our area the "Easter Monday" got added to allow a set 4 day weekend, as it used to be a full Mon- Fri ( plus weekend) off for Easter or Spring break. Missed days during the year due to snow changed it so as not to have to add more days on to the end of the year. I recall some years where we had no spring break at all, as we had missed so many snow days. I think it just became an easier solution than not having any break. I think parents agreed to it as they rather enjoyed the 4 day weekends that came with Labor Day and Memorial Day(s).

What still surprises me , in addition to the fact we still even have religious holidays, is that in a great deal of the rural South, we still have approved days off for kids during the first week of hunting season ( specifically deer) and for harvest time ( in re: tobacco). This always tended to be mostly a "boy" holiday ( hunting) as in some schools, half the male population was gone during that week. ( Just an observation...LOL )

I think seasonal breaks are good for students/ teachers and parents not unlike vacation time annually. It still boggles me that the USA places such little value on "vacation" and family time. Most other countries require several weeks of vacation per year and wouldn't you know, they seem to have less social issues than us.

Breaks.. yes.. Religious holidays, I think should be respected and if students have specific holy days in which they cannot attend school, then it should be permitted but not mandated for students who do not share the same religious practices.

Easter.. I prefer eggs and bunnies to crucifixes.. jus sayin..

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Jess

I think in our area the "Easter Monday" got added to allow a set 4 day weekend, as it used to be a full Mon- Fri ( plus weekend) off for Easter or Spring break. Missed days during the year due to snow changed it so as not to have to add more days on to the end of the year. I recall some years where we had no spring break at all, as we had missed so many snow days. I think it just became an easier solution than not having any break. I think parents agreed to it as they rather enjoyed the 4 day weekends that came with Labor Day and Memorial Day(s).

What still surprises me , in addition to the fact we still even have religious holidays, is that in a great deal of the rural South, we still have approved days off for kids during the first week of hunting season ( specifically deer) and for harvest time ( in re: tobacco). This always tended to be mostly a "boy" holiday ( hunting) as in some schools, half the male population was gone during that week. ( Just an observation...LOL )

I think seasonal breaks are good for students/ teachers and parents not unlike vacation time annually. It still boggles me that the USA places such little value on "vacation" and family time. Most other countries require several weeks of vacation per year and wouldn't you know, they seem to have less social issues than us.

Breaks.. yes.. Religious holidays, I think should be respected and if students have specific holy days in which they cannot attend school, then it should be permitted but not mandated for students who do not share the same religious practices.

Easter.. I prefer eggs and bunnies to crucifixes.. jus sayin..

I must admit I do enjoy the chocolate and candy crosses...they crack me UP! and I like to roast peeps for smores. Muahahahaha.

Yes, hunting season. At the last place I worked I had several employees give me a copy of the hunting schedule to let me work around it for their work. It is totally accepted...first day of Deer season with submachine gun? Day off. Kids take off from school too. They have a youth hunting days here on TN too. Just great.

I agree that more emphasis in our country should be placed on leisure time. With sports and clubs and homework and all the things kids are expected to get done, they need time to rest and recharge!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I have to say I am really surprised by the amount of responses who voted to add more religious holidays.

In public institutions, shouldn't the Christian names of existing holidays be phased out -- as opposed to adding more religious observance days to the school calendars?

I voted add more...not because I think we should be observing religious holidays in public institutions, but purely as a pragmatic thing.

I simply can't see our culture eliminating those days off from school over Christmas and Easter. We can call it whatever we like, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. We still take summer off in the public schools...even though virtually none of our children are needed for agricultural help. Kids do need breaks...and those times are traditional.

Since I think it's unlikely that we'll have kids going to school over Christmas and Easter any time soon, then I think it's better that we add in the major holidays of other faiths and recognize them all instead of marginalizing.

I guess what I'm striving for is equality. If they aren't going to all be out, then let's have them all be in. For many, those days off aren't going to be religious holidays, but maybe we can use that as a learning experience as my son's school does...and hopefully that will eventually increase our understanding of each other.

And, just a disclaimer, we don't adhere to any particular faith in our family...so they're all just days off to us. I am not concerned with my son being out of school for any religious holiday of any faith.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Isn't it one of those travel day additions? As a kid, we did not have that Monday off. But, I am kinda old and I remember it being added to the Easter Break (wasn't called Spring Break) when my son was elementary school (still called Easter Break or vacation), which was during the 70's. This was in Northern Califonia. Have no idea if this is true for other folks.

I grew up in the South Bay and it was the same for us...and this was also the 70's.

I do not remember having Monday off or maybe it was added to a week after? I will need to ask my mom. And it was still called Easter Break.

[julieisafemme]

I hear you on this but how do you decide what to give off? For example at my child's school in September this year there are 8 days off. These are the Orthodox observances of the Jewish High Holidays. Sometimes there are even more, up to 11 one year! These days rotate through September and October every year. How can a school plan for that? And that is just the Jewish holidays! Also in order to properly keep Jewish dietary laws things need to be kosher. Do we want public schools to be kosher? No of course not!

My child goes to a religious school because that is my choice. I do not expect that my religion would be accomodated in school. Christian holidays are not only institutionalized in schools, they are institutionalized at work and in the financial markets. That is just how it is. I don't mind that. I like to have the same days off as my child.

I'd like holidays to not be called religious ones in public school and for no other religious holidays to be added.

Originally Posted by JustJo

I voted add more...not because I think we should be observing religious holidays in public institutions, but purely as a pragmatic thing.

I simply can't see our culture eliminating those days off from school over Christmas and Easter. We can call it whatever we like, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. We still take summer off in the public schools...even though virtually none of our children are needed for agricultural help. Kids do need breaks...and those times are traditional.

Since I think it's unlikely that we'll have kids going to school over Christmas and Easter any time soon, then I think it's better that we add in the major holidays of other faiths and recognize them all instead of marginalizing.

I guess what I'm striving for is equality. If they aren't going to all be out, then let's have them all be in. For many, those days off aren't going to be religious holidays, but maybe we can use that as a learning experience as my son's school does...and hopefully that will eventually increase our understanding of each other.

And, just a disclaimer, we don't adhere to any particular faith in our family...so they're all just days off to us. I am not concerned with my son being out of school for any religious holiday of any faith.

[blush]

Very interesting topic.

We have a long history in public schools of separation of church and state. We have a conflicting arrangement of freedom to practice religion. How do we honor both?

Atlast mentioned more religious education/awareness. As a teacher, I am very uncomfortable with this idea, outside of a cultural context. It can easily blur the line between creating well-informed students, and teachers taking the opportunity to promote one religion over another. It would require a background in religions that teachers simply don't have. The expectation that teachers delve into something as personal as religion is a bit much.

For me, it boils down to what does our society expect from public schools. Ideally, education, right? If our purpose is to education, we should create an atmosphere where race, class and religion are neutralized so the focus is on education. However, each of those components affects not only the student and how the student learns, but the teacher and how the teacher teaches. It becomes a question of honoring each child as an individual where they can learn in a safe environment. Then the focus becomes not on what we do, but how we do it. If we can create an accepting classroom for children where they feel valued for who they are, and if we promote this atmosphere school-wide, then we have made more in-roads for that child than any school holiday (religious or otherwise) will ever be able to do.

[imperfect_cupcake]

All religious holidays should be taken out. And replaced with "half-term" breaks. If someone is a specific religion they can talk to the school about taking their child out of class for a few days to attend their holy days.

[adorable]

I voted "I don't care" and I really don't care about holidays although I celebrate the ones where gifts or chocolate is involved.

My experience with public schools has been that they have certain times off a year - they don't refer to them currently by the Christian name, everything is a "holiday" but not defined. Kids who celebrate other religions are allowed to take off from school without a penalty.

Even if I wanted to pull my kids out of school for a random vacation for a week during the school year I can and they'll still pass.

One thing I think that I would like to see happen is a year round school year. I know as a home owner I pay school taxes, and that they would go up. I would rather pay more for my kids to go to school year round then I would to have to send them to camp for the summer. I was lucky that when my oldest was young enough for camp (and I was a poor single mother going to college & working as a waitress) that I found one sponsored by the little town that we lived in that cost $15 a week!!!!!! I was so lucky. I didn't have the money to send her to camp otherwise. That camp of course no longer exists.

This year, my youngest daughters camp cost me over $1200 for five weeks. (She does the fair thing with 4-H during the other weeks) so my expense was actually lower then what lots of other people have to shell out. I only had to pay for her, what on earth do people do that have more then one kid? Or that can't afford between $160 - $250 a week?? Normally that is paid up front. Even $300 is more then some people can afford to spend to replace a car, much less send their kids to camp. I'm lucky today to be able to afford it. I honestly have no idea what some other families do.

Yet, they have to go to work. The kids have to go somewhere. Preferably a safe somewhere and not home alone. There are daycare subsidies here for people who work that can't afford daycare expenses, but nothing like that for camp. The daycare's are generally full. Year round schooling wouldn't hurt kids at all and would help out parents, especially the working poor.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by adorable

I voted "I don't care" and I really don't care about holidays although I celebrate the ones where gifts or chocolate is involved.

My experience with public schools has been that they have certain times off a year - they don't refer to them currently by the Christian name, everything is a "holiday" but not defined. Kids who celebrate other religions are allowed to take off from school without a penalty.

Even if I wanted to pull my kids out of school for a random vacation for a week during the school year I can and they'll still pass.

One thing I think that I would like to see happen is a year round school year. I know as a home owner I pay school taxes, and that they would go up. I would rather pay more for my kids to go to school year round then I would to have to send them to camp for the summer. I was lucky that when my oldest was young enough for camp (and I was a poor single mother going to college & working as a waitress) that I found one sponsored by the little town that we lived in that cost $15 a week!!!!!! I was so lucky. I didn't have the money to send her to camp otherwise. That camp of course no longer exists.

This year, my youngest daughters camp cost me over $1200 for five weeks. (She does the fair thing with 4-H during the other weeks) so my expense was actually lower then what lots of other people have to shell out. I only had to pay for her, what on earth do people do that have more then one kid? Or that can't afford between $160 - $250 a week?? Normally that is paid up front. Even $300 is more then some people can afford to spend to replace a car, much less send their kids to camp. I'm lucky today to be able to afford it. I honestly have no idea what some other families do.

Yet, they have to go to work. The kids have to go somewhere. Preferably a safe somewhere and not home alone. There are daycare subsidies here for people who work that can't afford daycare expenses, but nothing like that for camp. The daycare's are generally full. Year round schooling wouldn't hurt kids at all and would help out parents, especially the working poor.

Hi Adorable,

From what I have read--even with year round schooling--there are still significant breaks throughout the school year where parents would need to find alternative means of supervision for their children.

In year round schooling, breaks range from 2 weeks spread throughout the year to 3-5 weeks for summer.



This calendar shows 3 breaks of 15 days off in b/w 45-30 days of learning and 1 break (summer) of 30 days. With either system, parents will need to find care for their children during the days away from school and, in fact, with the balanced (year round) system, I would think they would need to find more alternative means of supervision throughout the course of the year (as opposed to a chunk in the summer).

According to this article, year round schooling doesn't add more learning days to the (180 typical school days) calendar, they just spread the breaks more evenly thoughout the school year:

Instead of a three-month summer vacation, year-round schools typically have several breaks of three to four weeks spread throughout the year. The total number of school days and vacation days remains unchanged, but they are distributed more evenly over the calendar.


So, no matter what schedule, parents will still be responsible for finding and/or paying for adequate supervision for their children at various points throughout the year. I wonder--isn't that their responsibility anyway--as parents?

[Julie]

As a parent of three son's - two who are Jewish and one who is Muslim. I found it to be quite hard on the children during these times. The rest of the year, children do not really notice religion differences and quite frankly color. Yet... When the holidays approach it becomes a club of sorts.

If we know this to be true... That it is religion which in so many ways is the culprit to war, then why would we not believe it would effect children the same way, when specific days and treatments are given to specific religions. It creates separatism and not unity.

I vote for removing all religion from the schools, as one poster said - Separation from church and state, as I believe the pledge of allegiance should be removed from school as well. Not all children believe in One God!

Julie

[adorable]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Hi Adorable,

From what I have read--even with year round schooling--there are still significant breaks throughout the school year where parents would need to find alternative means of supervision for their children.

In year round schooling, breaks range from 2 weeks spread throughout the year to 3-5 weeks for summer.



This calendar shows 3 breaks of 15 days off in b/w 45-30 days of learning and 1 break (summer) of 30 days. With either system, parents will need to find care for their children during the days away from school and, in fact, with the balanced (year round) system, I would think they would need to find more alternative means of supervision throughout the course of the year (as opposed to a chunk in the summer).

According to this article, year round schooling doesn't add more learning days to the (180 typical school days) calendar, they just spread the breaks more evenly thoughout the school year:

Instead of a three-month summer vacation, year-round schools typically have several breaks of three to four weeks spread throughout the year. The total number of school days and vacation days remains unchanged, but they are distributed more evenly over the calendar.


So, no matter what schedule, parents will still be responsible for finding and/or paying for adequate supervision for their children at various points throughout the year. I wonder--isn't that their responsibility anyway--as parents?

Just because that is one model doesn't mean that is how it has to be done right? But even that model has benefits over the current system.

Sure it is the parents responsibility. Too bad all parents aren't all so equally responsible. There are plenty of single parents who are stuck, not by choice, trying to raise families on a very limited income. There are even two parent families that face hardships every day in this country and are worried about keeping the lights on. Not because they are irresponsible, but because they can't find work or they can and it's min wage.

I would personally, as a parent prefer to figure out shorter periods of time then such a large chunk. As someone who spent most of their life as a member of the working poor, I think that year round schooling - which other countries have done with some success - is a viable option to help parents that don't have the resources and it benefits the child educationally too.

Here is another article on it: http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/459031

I suspect that kids learn more without such large breaks or forget less depending on how you look at it. The structure remains intact without significant adjustments/disruptions for kids. Shorter periods of time where camp would be needed or alternative childcare arrangements saves money. Kids aren't going to learn less this way....and our kids need to be learning more, especially math and science.

[Unndunn]

I voted "I Don't Care" because none of the other options were close to what I think.

I think each school district should set their calendar based on the members of the community they are providing for. They have the data, and I don't think it would be that difficult to build the schedule around the needs of that particular community. If you know that 75% of your students are muslim, it would make sense to schedule that day off since all of those students would be missing the lessons taught on that day.

It was never an issue in my hometown because there was very little diversity. In my senior class in high school (class of '83) there were two jewish students out of 180 students. I know this because we were in the same home room and they would talk about when they would be out for high holidays, etc. I know that the school didn't count the days they took off for high holidays as absences. It wouldn't have been practical to have school on Christmas when about 99% of the student body would be home celebrating.

It's late and I'm way over tired so I shouldn't even be posting. I don't have any kids, but I do work with children, so school schedules do affect my work schedule.

[MsDemeanor]

Too bad we can't just get rid of all this pesky religion silliness, that would solve the issue.

[MsDemeanor]

Let's keep something that looks kinda like Christmas, though. I really love the tree and the pretty ornaments and lights on houses and the excuse to bake lots of cookies, and all the prezzies and the Grinch and stuff. Plus, "Peace on earth and good will" is pretty a good message.

[christie]

Originally Posted by adorable

Just because that is one model doesn't mean that is how it has to be done right? But even that model has benefits over the current system.

Sure it is the parents responsibility. Too bad all parents aren't all so equally responsible. There are plenty of single parents who are stuck, not by choice, trying to raise families on a very limited income. There are even two parent families that face hardships every day in this country and are worried about keeping the lights on. Not because they are irresponsible, but because they can't find work or they can and it's min wage.

I would personally, as a parent prefer to figure out shorter periods of time then such a large chunk. As someone who spent most of their life as a member of the working poor, I think that year round schooling - which other countries have done with some success - is a viable option to help parents that don't have the resources and it benefits the child educationally too.

Here is another article on it: http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/459031

I suspect that kids learn more without such large breaks or forget less depending on how you look at it. The structure remains intact without significant adjustments/disruptions for kids. Shorter periods of time where camp would be needed or alternative childcare arrangements saves money. Kids aren't going to learn less this way....and our kids need to be learning more, especially math and science.

Bratboy was in a school system several years ago that had a "year-round" schedule. For us, in great part due to his autism, it was a huge pain in the ass.

Routine and structure were so very important at that time, it seemed that just as he got settled in, BAM! Time for a two-week break. It would literally take the majority of the next grading period to get him settled back in then BAM! again.

It.wore.us.all.out.

It also increased my child care costs. I was already paying for before/after care and then I had a couple weeks every 6 weeks or so of fulltime care to pay. The summer break, while less in length, still necessitated camp or something. I didn't see it as a positive at all.

I realize this is just one not so great experience with a "year round" schedule and that other folks may not share the same views.

I have difficulty with adding to teachers' burdens. I think they are already overworked, underpaid and appreciated. I think the year round schedule just adds unnecessary issues because I think most children have difficulty in the re-adjustment after school breaks.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Unndunn

I voted "I Don't Care" because none of the other options were close to what I think.

I think each school district should set their calendar based on the members of the community they are providing for. They have the data, and I don't think it would be that difficult to build the schedule around the needs of that particular community. If you know that 75% of your students are muslim, it would make sense to schedule that day off since all of those students would be missing the lessons taught on that day.

It was never an issue in my hometown because there was very little diversity. In my senior class in high school (class of '83) there were two jewish students out of 180 students. I know this because we were in the same home room and they would talk about when they would be out for high holidays, etc. I know that the school didn't count the days they took off for high holidays as absences. It wouldn't have been practical to have school on Christmas when about 99% of the student body would be home celebrating.

It's late and I'm way over tired so I shouldn't even be posting. I don't have any kids, but I do work with children, so school schedules do affect my work schedule.

I have to disagree. In a private school, polling a family's religious beliefs and catering to the majority is plausible. In the public school district I teach in, we do not know the religion of our students(unless the student or parent tells us.)

Furthermore, it is public education, not majority education. It is an easy answer to say, majority rules, but does that teach diversity or acceptance? A break schedule that removes ANY religious acknowledgement separates public schools from favoring one religion over another. Public schools should give students days off without penalty for religious observances.