The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

SF - You were clear. My apologies. I did mis-read your post - and thats why it bothered me! lol

That is a prime example of how the fallout issues of a physical disability can impact our posting. Today is fibro flare. Hence, my misreading of your post - fibro fog.

My apologies.

No biggie. If anyone understands misreading a post, it's me.

Fibro flares are awful, do take care to be gentle with yourself.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=christie0918;155636]
I do think, however, Belle brings up an issue that I, too, think is problematic in two ways: (1) What if the DA person having an issue doesn't feel a rapport with SF? In following that train of thought, to me, having the hierarchy or next step in the process, what if the DA person doesn't feel comfortable in speaking with a moderator or administrator? These persons, while active, participating community members also have a position of authority and I think something to think about is how that might not feel safe.

(2) Its also been my observation and interpretation that most of the neuro DA's might not see that they even need to ask for assistance. Most of the times when Bratboy has gotten into sticky communication issues, he doesn't see that his behavior is the problem or how what he said/did is offensive/crossing a boundary. How can we, as a community, expect a neuro DA, especially those with communication differences, to have the capacity to know that they need to ask for help? I have issue with expecting a neuro DA person be accountable when they might not have the cognitive ability to look outside of self to see where their part of the issue is the problem.

Its also why I thought that a peer system of folks who aren't dual-roled as both moderators/position of authority and community members might be a viable supplement to the current process. For instance, Belle might be more comfortable in reaching out to me to ask for clarification of a post rather than having to ask a Moderator, whose role as Moderator is one of "task master". I'm just an equal. I think sometimes, even the NT folks have trouble seeing a Moderator as also a peer - I know I do in spite of the additional efforts the Moderators go to in clarifying from which position they are speaking.

Again, I hope that everyone understands that I am not saying there is anything wrong with, nor am I being unsupportive of the DA Ambassador role/process. I just see how we might be able to supplement it so that we can further dispel the mythical pass perceptions.

Christie, i could not agree more with your post, and selected the paragraphs above, because of my own thoughts with regard to a peer system/equal for issues perhaps in need of clarification. i would feel comfortable reaching out to you or Cyclopea, for a lot of reasons, but mainly fair-mindedness. i'm thinking about something SuperFemme wrote to me in an earlier post about being able to separate sites- and just briefly wanted to add that i do understand there are some differences, but basically, the people are the same, and my processing operates on 'patterns and connections' to experiences. in other words, if Cyclopea and Christie have interacted with me in positive or neutral ways for years, do not skip my posts, or ignore my contributions - rep notes, quotes, pms, and/or posts, on a regular basis [because i do notice things], and i can see that Christie and Cyclopea seem to be like this with people across the board, have a solid awareness of AT/AS processing- then i'm going to feel a lot 'safer' with approaching for clarification. i would rather honestly know what / whom i'm dealing with online out in the open, rather than my being here and simply 'tolerated', because away from the computer, i enjoy challenging conversations without so many areas of confusion.

probably another reason i'd chose a peer is that person may not be very 'popular', and if she [or he] happens to be an aspie, and/or creative type with sharp ideas for important discussion, though topics might get frequently misunderstood / read as being somewhat trouble-making, and if the peer can be found dwelling a bit on the fringes of online communities, i'm pretty certain i'll relate to a few of the reasons why.

[SuperFemme]

violane, you are free to seek out help/advice from whomever you choose.

medusa addressed that in her post.

but if you don't trust the mods/admins? it's going to be difficult if for the very fact that there is noone left to apply solutions.

i'd also like to speak to popularity because what one sees and what one does not see can have a lot of impact. i don't feel "popular" what i do feel is gratitude for the kindness and healing thoughts from the membership here.

i am dying. i am pretty much trapped on an island (my bed) with my computer. which grants me access to the only community i have.
and i eternally grateful for this space. why? because from an act of love by two people, this site is here for us to enjoy.

two people with full time jobs that make no money from this site. two people that cannot get on days peace.

so to be anything but grateful (for me me me) would feel like entitlement.
i don't do entitlement, and trust me living with a different ability cured me of that. living with a terminal illness that keeps making me sicker and sicker keeps me cured.

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

i respect you, and embrace you with AS. not only do i embrace you...i spend at least part of every day reading everything i can about AS. i am invested in making sure that the powers that be on this site understand you for just who you are. not some standard of expected behavior.

[SuperFemme]

so apparently my question has ruffled some feathers.

i get it, and gave a lot of thought to my post. in the end i decided it would be diminishing to violane to not ask her. the same as i would ask anyone else.

so i apologize. my question was valid but that portion of my post should have been in pm. i'm fully ready to accept the consequences.

[violaine]

SuperFemme wrote:

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

dear SuperFemme,

you've 'got your rights' to wonder, and/or have feelings i sure do a lot of wondering myself, and sure, your question could have been asked in a PM to me - whether or not i'm not even thinking of [which is one thing] or discussing your best friend, her partner, or any friendships/relationships i've had in the past [which is another thing]. i can assure you that your best friend and her partner were not part of my model/post/processing.

so, feathers getting ruffled for me, are due to : comments about how you 'understand my feeling that way/my name not being brought up/ 'we' have never had conversation about you. . . .' does read very publically boundary-crossing/strange to me.

if my own truth is being disputed here, and drama being brought in about people i'm not even having any personal drama with!! then how will having an ambassador in place work?




thank you.

[Soft*Silver]

so maybe this might be the site to ask this question: What IF someone who is DA, continually needs timed out because of the same behavior (or very similar behaviors) over the course of their participation on this site, when is enough enough? Where is the line drawn? I know this will need to be answered in a subjective way, since we are not discussing anyone in particular, and each case would be handled individually, but when does no "pass" become formalized?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by softness

so maybe this might be the site to ask this question: What IF someone who is DA, continually needs timed out because of the same behavior (or very similar behaviors) over the course of their participation on this site, when is enough enough? Where is the line drawn? I know this will need to be answered in a subjective way, since we are not discussing anyone in particular, and each case would be handled individually, but when does no "pass" become formalized?

I am interested in this question too.

If someone is given suggestions they ignore and numerous time outs, when is enough enough?

Is there actual banning on this website? or do people just get timed out again and again over the same significant breaking of the TOS like racism, sexism, calling names etc.

I am a fan of the warning and time out system, I am not arguing with that, but consistent offenders. Is there a too much?

[Corkey]

I would think it's up to the owners. With or with out our opinions it really is their call.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I would think it's up to the owners. With or with out our opinions it really is their call.

Makes sense!

[Soft*Silver]

well, yes it is there call...not questioning that at all. I am just wondering what their "cap" is..

[Corkey]

Guess they would be the ones to ask.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I am interested in this question too.

If someone is given suggestions they ignore and numerous time outs, when is enough enough?

Is there actual banning on this website? or do people just get timed out again and again over the same significant breaking of the TOS like racism, sexism, calling names etc.

I am a fan of the warning and time out system, I am not arguing with that, but consistent offenders. Is there a too much?

I don't think there is a one size fit's all answer for the question both you and softness bring up.

I *do* know that the site owners take into consideration a DA members challenges and how that might affect the way a person filters, or has a lack of filters.

I do know that the site owners are very aware that for many people, this is the only available "community". It is not at all a light decision to take away access.

Of course, if someone is continuously threatening members or breaking the TOS? That is going to force a hand, so to speak.

Everyone deserves to feel safe, and while people are going to make mistakes? it is up to the person NOT to make the same mistakes over and over.

I hope I have managed to confuse you with my answer.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I don't think there is a one size fit's all answer for the question both you and softness bring up.

I *do* know that the site owners take into consideration a DA members challenges and how that might affect the way a person filters, or has a lack of filters.

I do know that the site owners are very aware that for many people, this is the only available "community". It is not at all a light decision to take away access.

Of course, if someone is continuously threatening members or breaking the TOS? That is going to force a hand, so to speak.

Everyone deserves to feel safe, and while people are going to make mistakes? it is up to the person NOT to make the same mistakes over and over.

I hope I have managed to confuse you with my answer.

No, that makes sense.

I am glad that banning is not taken lightly and yes, everyone deserved to feel safe.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by June

Because this is not an exact science, there is no way to say what the "Cap" is or will be. And yes, the owners have the final say.

I don't think it's productive to talk about "What If's" ever really, because we need to have the freedom, compassion and ultimately the authority to review each situation as it occurs.

We know people need this community, or they wouldn't keep showing up. We don't want to yank it from them unfairly, but we also don't want to subject all members to bad behavior, lack of social skills or even threatening behavior that is well out of our scope to "fix". We're not trained counselors or educators, we're volunteers and community members just like you.

--June (Moderator voice, but not moderating)

Makes sense, thank you for responding in moderator tone, but not you are in trouble tone. Grin!

Even trying to wrap my own mind around how to deal with my own crossed boundaries as an individual is difficult.

This subject is something I do keep tossing around, thank you for helping us process and stay on track.

[Soft*Silver]

I appreciate the answers given and feel that (as if it counts at all in regard to this) it matches my own expectations.

I get into skirmishes too, online. I appreciate it when I am handled with care, but firmly. June addressed me one time...and she addressed me, rather than "dressing me down". Her firm tact actually made me feel comfortable rathr than confronted. I learned from that interaction and have (hopefully) done as requested.

I dont want anyone banned. I was simply asking the inevitable question...

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;156608]violane, you are free to seek out help/advice from whomever you choose.

medusa addressed that in her post.

but if you don't trust the mods/admins? it's going to be difficult if for the very fact that there is noone left to apply solutions.

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

if you want to know why i'm weary of you it's because of a pm you wrote to me assuring me that everything was indeed private, as ambassador DA, and there would be no disclosure of personal information. right after that pm, you composed the post here, and i am quoting you.

i could have understood if you put it out in the thread any feelings you were having about you in your post- but when things get turned around on me, where is taking responsibility [in. the. act. ] ?

it felt terribly deliberate.

how would you feel, as an Ambassador, if information [true or not about you, but personal], were put out in a thread- rapid response to something you wrote, and i was not exactly sticking to my own feelings, but dragging in unnecessary drama?

it's not just about me then when that was posted to me, it's also about the people you want to be ambassador?

is that ohk with you? and would i get 'away' with what you do? these are the VERY SLIPPERY SLOPES i deal with here. you just created one that i didn't need to encounter. it does have an impact on me - thought you should know!



thank you.

[Apocalipstic]

It is apparent that we all have slip ups and bad days and say things we wish we had not.

Maybe we all need that Pass some days.

DA or not DA.

We all process information and what is and is not OK differently and lash out when we are hurt.

It could be medicines taken
Pain
Fibro Fog
Brain Injuries
Neurological Opportunities
Cultural differences
English as a second or third language
Rural as opposed to Urban experiences (and I mean living in a large city, not code word Urban)
general fussiness
etc.

Do we need a pass?

I know some days I am hella glad we all get one.

Does everyone get the same number of chances? I am not aware of a rash of actual banning, so it seems we do in the large picture.

I do think some personalities and pasts work better together than others, which why I suggested a back up plan, but understand any changes or suggestions should not come from me.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

It is apparent that we all have slip ups and bad days and say things we wish we had not.

Maybe we all need that Pass some days.

DA or not DA.

We all process information and what is and is not OK differently and lash out when we are hurt.

It could be medicines taken
Pain
Fibro Fog
Brain Injuries
Neurological Opportunities
Cultural differences
English as a second or third language
Rural as opposed to Urban experiences (and I mean living in a large city, not code word Urban)
general fussiness
etc.

Do we need a pass?

I know some days I am hella glad we all get one.

Does everyone get the same number of chances? I am not aware of a rash of actual banning, so it seems we do in the large picture.

I do think some personalities and pasts work better together than others, which why I suggested a back up plan, but understand any changes or suggestions should not come from me.

Yeppers.

Being able to look into our own stuff when we do make mistakes says it all to me. We are a passionate, bright, struggling, human group... and sometimes we just blow it!

When I realize pain and meds, lack of good sleep and just life is kicking me in the gut and my responses come from this place, I need to sit back and have a talk with myself. All of the education and years of work as a therapist don't mean beans for me at these moments because what I need to do is just about self-reflection and figuring out how I can just be a better person!

[AtLast]

It would be helpful to see what others believe mythical means to them in this context. Sitting here thinking that what is a mythical pass to one person may not be the same for another.

Guess I'm looking at this in terms of awareness and consciousness at large. Re: how can a population get things across to others and build a better communication foundation?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

It would be helpful to see what others believe mythical means to them in this context. Sitting here thinking that what is a mythical pass to one person may not be the same for another.

Guess I'm looking at this in terms of awareness and consciousness at large. Re: how can a population get things across to others and build a better communication foundation?

I think it's pretty clear that it means different things to different people.

To ME what this thread is about is not changing the rules of the TOS for anyone. Differently abled or not. We all need to be responsible for our behavior.

What I am NOT talking about in terms of a mythical pass is empathy and compassion for our DA'd population here. I think that it's been said quite eloquently by the admins/mods that a lot of time/energy is given DA'd people who have issues that make it not a simple process to communicate.

Then there are the folks who passionately want the membership to ignore the inappropriateness/feelings of danger when dealing with a DA'd person who claims they "can't help it" or believes that their different ability excuses bad behavior.

I think people in general will rise to the level of expectations.

I really believe that we can be excellent support for each other in a strive to make sure that involvement on this site is safe. For everyone.